players dropping down

Location: Barnet
Joined: 09/08/2009
Status: Offline

Posted on: Thu, 07/29/2010 - 21:39

for those of you not at the agm i came very close to getting a rule change that would have changed the msfl and i feel no justice in what has done , it is hard though when you are fighting the might of lions hendon and faithfold, and most of the board whose clubs redbridge and harman not only benifit from this but in harmans case have even got a nice passge into the premiership.

in simple terms clubs who have A and B team players in the prem and div 1 are allowed to drop a player down to as far as div 4 to gain in my opinion an unmoral and unsporting advantage.

i argued that zzfc and the other single clubs cant do this, temple fortune called my rule change ludicrous, harmans manager actully agreed with me only for his secretary the vice chairman to say ' if i had known you would stick up for neal id have sacked you'!

the rule i put in was simple to level the playing field no player should be allowed to drop more than one division whats the problem there it means that and A player in the prem can play in div 1 but not 4 fair enough no?

all the usual suspects had thier say about how their clubs had startd with nothing and now had many teams, that was compleatly irrelevant by they way!! fc team lions faithfold hendon all said the rule was fair!! yeah its fair to put lee cash into neasden c or josh bentley into hendon d or why not mike pearson into lions c actully he could as they are in the first...

anyway i lost 33-28 but you know what the top table 5 of them voted against us 2 run multi clubs so cant really blame them although i thought a board is meant to be unbias? the other 3 will read this why did you vote agaist me??

moving on i had a plan b , instead of players not moving down at all after 12 games i said make it 6 that is fair and stops them moving down for relagation and promotion games, the vote was equal!!!!!

went to the chairman who said it was defeated!! incredible

i emailed the board for an explanation and have had no reply at all so lets see what people out thee make of this

no wonder small clubs drop out
no wonder there are less teams this year then ever before

honestly i have always supported the msfl but i think there is no room for dinoasaurs and as a man who has run a single club for 10 years i need some help

faithfold c were voted to stay up by the way after being relagated from div 3

lets open this up to the floor

Location: Pinner
Joined: 07/04/2008
Status: Offline

Posted on: Fri, 07/30/2010 - 09:47#1

This is very interesting where there is a fundamental floor in the current MSFL constitution and goes against the grain of the national trend of how league rules are applied across the land.

Danny Caro's column this week notes the point where with the MSFL, each ‘team’ has the right of two votes at council meetings as opposed to the norm of two representatives from each ’club’. With this in mind, any contentious proposal is always doomed from the off.

Is this likely to change? Well Danny says in his column that he's going to make such a proposal next year, as this is the only way real change can be made.

I for one support this. But without doubt, we’ll have a replication of this year’s AGM unless there’s a serious and realistic change of attitude.

I have no issue with the likes of LML and admire them for what they’ve achieved. But even their top brass know that this in itself allows for the advantage to be applied with an extremely generous rule.

With respect to Neal Cohen’s proposals I supported this.

Purely as an example albeit referring to LML again, they know the score but don’t tell other MSFL members how they work other aspects of their club.

Simply, it doesn’t happen in other leagues they participate in where no play ups/downs are allowed and where a player is solely registered for one team. When a change from A to B is required, the club concerned has to submit a formal transfer as is normal from one club to another.

Why does this exist? So that teams can stand on their own two feet and be sustainable.

It’s bizarre therefore that a club like LML are happy to work one-way and the reverse in another but again not surprising that they keep this to themselves.

Jewish leagues do not have different problems to everyone else. Therefore, the play up/down rule bears no credibility in the real world.

The real issue here is that it worries me that in the main people just don’t understand and it's clear that they need to be supported to do so.

I heard a comment made at the AGM behind me the other night (and have heard this before many times at other jewish league meetings) as to why do we have to worry about the FA.

Well the issue here is simple. All clubs in the MSFL have to be affiliated as it's an affiliated league. What this means is that as the national affiliated game, a national governing body governs and where there are certain things clubs have to do and abide by to validate that affiliation.

If people don’t want to play within this kind of set up, then feel free to trot off to the park and have a knock about with mates. But by doing so, many benefits will be lost including there being no right to the use of a park pitch.

If you want to know more about and how this can create something really healthy, then ask.

With respect to multi teams, the key point must be understood that they do not create the healthy growth that seems to be perceived from so many.

It's great that there are multi teams and I applaud that. But people need to get it clear in their heads that it’s about and solely about building from the bottom up and creating longevity, sustainability and a future.

Most of the guys that play or run teams in the MSFL are young and probably have few cares in the world. But at some point they will have real family responsibilities and will need to make their contribution on a wider footing.

I cannot stress enough that this is about community and more importantly your legacy, which by being part of the MSFL all those involved have a duty towards.

Make no mistake, if people don't start thinking about this and taking some action and despite the MSFL being healthy with fifty odd teams now, in ten years time it will be significantly different and quite possibly no more.

What MSFL reps must do is build links with the youth and start doing it now. It really ‘aint hard if there’s a will.

If people want help then again just ask.


Joined: 03/11/2010
Status: Offline

Posted on: Fri, 07/30/2010 - 09:54#2

For once, I find myself agreeing with Neal...mostly. Personally, I doubt that the rules as they stand have much to do with clubs dropping out or the dwindling number of teams but there is absolutely no doubt that the system is unnecessarily unfair to single-team clubs.

But Neal, what did you expect? Turkeys don't vote for Christmas!

Instead of telling us every year that "this year, I am going to get a massive rule change through that will change the MSFL...." and then failing to get it through, why don't you concentrate your efforts on the disproportionate voting power of the multi-team clubs? It is this that is your real obstacle and until it is changed, nothing will get through that does not work in their favour, no matter how justified your proposals may be.

The answer is vote per club, not per team. Of course, I don't know what the league constitution says about this and I suspect it would have to be voted in under the current system, which means you've still got virtually no chance.

Location: Barnet
Joined: 09/08/2009
Status: Offline

Posted on: Fri, 07/30/2010 - 10:24#3

you are so right
it is my fault as i didnt even think about how many votes each person team or club had then when i got there and saw how many people were there including people like david shnellman! for lions i opened the book and saw it is 2 votes per team!!

lions 6
redbridge 6
faitfold 6
hendon 8 !!
neasden 6
raiders 6


no wonder we got done but looking at the score actully mistake i lost by 8 votes not 5 it came very close
the thing that annoys me the most is the people on the board decide everything at the end of the day i still dont understand why when my second vote was a draw david woolfe just stood up and said it is defeated!!