Can a referree or someone at the MSFL clarify a rule for me please?

Location: Redbridge
Joined: 02/02/2010
Status: Offline

Posted on: Sun, 02/07/2010 - 16:54

I turn up today to play for my team FC Team A We are away at Faithfold B. When we get to the pitch for our 10.30 kick off I note Faithfold A playing on the next pitch but the kick off for that game was 10.00. I thought that was strange and worked out why this was the case later, I will come on to this point.

So we get going and with 20 minutes to go we are 2-1 up and by this time the Faithfold A Team game on the next pitch is over. So they decide to bring on 3 players that have just played the full game for the A team. Is this within the rules? And obviously by this point it was clear why they kicked of early as they had this trick up there sleeve.

I tried to speak to the referee but he was death so that was not possible. Not disrespect to him he is one of the better ref's in this league. But I wonder if Faithfold took advantage of him and broken the rules?
I am not being bitter here because we held out and went onto win 2-1. However this shouldn’t happen again. I thought there was some rule about how many players can go up and down and then go back and play etc. And surely you can’t be involved in two games in two different league games?

I asked a few of their players if this was kosher? They say it is. If this is the case this makes more of a laughing stock of our league.

I am not a big fan of DJ Neal but I am starting to see his point on teams with 3 or 4 teams. I know I play for a club that has two teams in the MSFL. But from my time with them I have not seen p*** taking like this episode. I also spent 5 seasons playing for Chigwell (who had 3 teams) and never saw this once.

Some clarification on this rule please?


Location: Borehamwood
Joined: 09/14/2009
Status: Offline

Posted on: Sun, 02/07/2010 - 18:30#1

From a referee's point of view, there's nothing untoward here - assuming of course, that the players they brought on were named as substitutes pre-match. If not, then they shouldn't have brought them on.

Morally, it's very wrong and a complete disrespect to both the league and the opposition on the day. I play for a two-team club (Montana) and we don't even call players up (or down) from B's to A's, or vice-versa.

What Faithfold did was very very wrong, but from a Laws Of The Game point of view, they've actually done nothing wrong. Whether or not there's a rule in the MSFL rule-book, I couldn't tell you.


Location: Borehamwood
Joined: 09/14/2009
Status: Offline

Posted on: Sun, 02/07/2010 - 18:32#2

PS - up until last season, I refereed in the MSFL and still referee the odd game in the league, although I generally referee other leagues at the moment - so I am talking from the view of a qualified referee.


Location: Borehamwood
Joined: 02/08/2010
Status: Offline

Posted on: Mon, 02/08/2010 - 09:44#3

When you turn up on a Sunday morning and discover that 3 players have not turned up you are left with a dilemma. We only had 11 men.

Before starting to label us Faithfold "cheats" you should of checked your facts. Lions A always ask for a 10am kick off and did again on this Occasion against Faithfold A. So the fact that we were able to name players on the bench for both teams was in fact pure luck.

Two of the boys who came on as Substitute were B team players anyway and none of them had played a full game for the A team at all.

I understand your frustration if you had lost the game which in honesty you should of, but we have not cheated, we have simply worked the system correctly. We are a Club and it is our privilege to do this.

Believe me Lions and the Essex teams have done this against me personally for years.

Don't be so quick to point the finger especially when you don't have all the facts !



Joined: 10/17/2008
Status: Offline

Posted on: Mon, 02/08/2010 - 10:58#4

As a current and longstanding referee I too can confirm the what happened did not contravene the Laws of the Game. Of course, league regulations would not be a matter for the referee.


Location: Borehamwood
Joined: 09/08/2009
Status: Offline

Posted on: Mon, 02/08/2010 - 11:50#5

Actually, to both referees and Simon Bereford, all of whom i respect a lot, if the Redbridge player has described the events properly the rules may have been broken.
One player is allowed to drop down for a higher level team and one player who has not played for a higher level team for three weeks is allowed to drop down in any one fixture. I think i am correct in saying if more than one of the three who dropped down had played for the A team in the previous three weeks then that is against the rules, and Master COhen you should know the rules!
That said, i know Redbridge have dropped players so talking about fair is not a word i would choose to use in this instance,
Knowing Faithfold and Lions well, i don not believe they would start a game early with any "foul play" specifically in mind.
Gabe
Jewventus.


Location: Barnet
Joined: 09/08/2009
Status: Offline

Posted on: Mon, 02/08/2010 - 12:26#6

i just cant understand why a nice essex lad would want to play for fc team A never trust a team that wears yellow, if your any good il give you a trial are you a keeper?


Location: Barnet
Joined: 09/08/2009
Status: Offline

Posted on: Mon, 02/08/2010 - 12:28#7

also can i add that fc team A and B used the rule against us last year when mitch young palyed against us for the b team and we lost to a las tmin goal so what comes around.

in the agm this summer we will add a new rule

no player can drop down more then 1 div
and

no player can drop down at all after 5 games


JG1

Location: Borehamwood
Joined: 01/05/2010
Status: Offline

Posted on: Mon, 02/08/2010 - 12:40#8

Can i add that i think players dropping down divisions to play for their B teams is a joke.
I come from a 2 team club but we train and manage the teams completely seperate and have never called upon A team players when they do not have a fixture etc etc. Players who play in the lower league should not have to turn up on a sunday morning and play against players who play in the prem as the gulf in standard is visible for all to see.
We go back to the point of if you havent got enough players registered or available to play then dont have more than one team playing.
Nothing will ever be done to stop this though as the people at the top bow down to the top teams and wouldnt risk them leaving to join other more competitive leagues. So we jsut have to get on with it.
I cant wait till the last week of the season when some teams are struggling for survival and all of a sudden have 5 A teamers in their team to steer them to safety. Its a joke


Location: Borehamwood
Joined: 02/08/2010
Status: Offline

Posted on: Mon, 02/08/2010 - 12:55#9

That shouldn't happen as most players would of played 10 games for the higher team meaning they cannot drop down.

I think this comes into effect after Feb 28th ?

Also in this case 2 of the players were B team players helping out the A team. It works both ways at clubs like Faithold where its run properly !


Location: Borehamwood
Joined: 09/08/2009
Status: Offline

Posted on: Mon, 02/08/2010 - 13:01#10

Firstly here is the rule:
Secondly, i hope the implication is not that JEwve is run poorly?

8(i) Where a club fields more than one team in differing divisions, the team or teams from the lower division(s) may consist of no more than one player who played any part in the previous match of a team in a higher division. Any player who did not play any part in the previous match of a team in a higher division shall be deemed to be a floating player and shall be eligible for any team on his return. This applies to league and cup matches. The management committee may exercise their discretion and vary this rule in extreme circumstances.


Location: Barnet
Joined: 09/08/2009
Status: Offline

Posted on: Mon, 02/08/2010 - 13:14#11

beresford your having a larf

here are the facts

faithfold C are crap

lequipe are very good

paul lechner of faitfold A is very good

paul lechner played for the c TEAM V LEQUIPE

paul lenchner scred 4 goals and they won 6-3 i think

THIS IS FACT YOU LOT ARE A JOKE!! HOW CAN YOU DEFEND THIS WOITH YOU ' WE ARE A PROPER CLUB LARF'

HATE THE CELTIC KIT TOO


Location: Borehamwood
Joined: 09/08/2009
Status: Offline

Posted on: Mon, 02/08/2010 - 13:27#12

DJ, possibly a little strong, Si is a good lad.
Lench playing for the C's under any guise is a little silly as he is far too good for that level.

Carry on building your Zig Zag empire and make your points a little less personal and equally a touch less aggressive, because some of them hold credance ( like the multi-team ones)

Curry any time, get JG, NTY on it!


JG1

Location: Borehamwood
Joined: 01/05/2010
Status: Offline

Posted on: Mon, 02/08/2010 - 13:35#13

YOu lot make me laugh!! Thankyou Lench for putting Equipe to the sword!! they deserve it !!

But i do agree disgrace - Faithfold C are uselss and will lose 99% of games when they dont have A players!!

In all fairness I like Berry hes a good boy!! mazel on the new poooch!!

But Faithfold i have played for and i hate the club and the way it is run!!

And Dj looks like you wont be sitting in the top half after all couple of bad results and we are pulling away with Norstar and Woodford


Location: Barnet
Joined: 09/08/2009
Status: Offline

Posted on: Mon, 02/08/2010 - 13:51#14

sorry i like si but ive had a beef with him since neasden pulled out of a game with us when their pitch wasnt fit even though i had a pitch and it was fit to play on they bottled it, and went bust a few seasons later ;-)


Location: Barnet
Joined: 09/08/2009
Status: Offline

Posted on: Mon, 02/08/2010 - 13:53#15

jg

im having a nightmare becuase i have no goaly we had to use 3 lads yesterday v hendon, played them off the park first half went 1-0 up but got done by 3 goals....

however we have just resigned danny jacobs a real quality striker his old man is andy jacobs from H and J on talksport

he will make his debut v catford sunday thats 3 pts in the bag


JG1

Location: Borehamwood
Joined: 01/05/2010
Status: Offline

Posted on: Mon, 02/08/2010 - 14:57#16

Dj even without ure new super signing i think you would beat them!! a very poor side who somehow gave woodford a game !!

I hope you lot finish in top half you deserve it but we are looking forward to another 3 points of you in a cuple weeks!! haha

whens the curry?


Location: Barnet
Joined: 09/08/2009
Status: Offline

Posted on: Mon, 02/08/2010 - 16:43#17

why would you want to know about the curry you aint in the know anyway our game by the way is feb 28th and il be speaking to goodmaker about a very early kick off 945 hopefully if not 10am

spurs v everton at the lane 1pm kick off.

you know it makes sense


Location: Borehamwood
Joined: 02/08/2010
Status: Offline

Posted on: Mon, 02/08/2010 - 16:50#18

Gab not aimed at you matey.

Faithfold didn't break any rules and it made no difference to the result anyway !

DJ you need to chill out, there is no Beef on my part, games get cancelled all the time its just life.

When you are a club if one of your teams is short of players you pull in who ever you can that is Registered.

Whether a team is Crap or not is irrelevant.


Location: Barnet
Joined: 09/08/2009
Status: Offline

Posted on: Mon, 02/08/2010 - 18:40#19

simon
plain and simple it is using an unfair advantage how can i put it in easy terms so you get it

zigzag v faithfold c

we use our players registered to zigzag fc

you can use a player who plays in the prem for faithfold A as you did to destroy lequipe

it is unfair

it is wrong

it has to be stopped

it is like using a legal ringer

not your fault its the rules you are right
but we need to change them


Location: Borehamwood
Joined: 09/14/2009
Status: Offline

Posted on: Mon, 02/08/2010 - 20:36#20

To respond to some points -

Gabe, there is NOTHING in the LAWS OF THE GAME stating about players dropping down teams. However, I'm sure there is something in the MSFL League rules, so I think I do know the rules (and Master COhen you should know the rules!) - that being a direct quote of yours!!!

DJ Neal, I agree with most of your points, but like Gabe said, maybe tone it down a little bit!!

As I said, what Faithfold did was morally wrong, but they appear to have done nothing wrong rule-wise.
Think it should probably be left to David Wolff and his committee to deal with/give an answer.


Location: Borehamwood
Joined: 09/08/2009
Status: Offline

Posted on: Mon, 02/08/2010 - 21:25#21

Master Cohen, i think being a pedand does not suit you. Clearly we are talking within the laws of OUR league and not the wider ramifications.
We are not talking about Spain A's dropping Torres to their B side, We are not talikng about Real Madrid dropping players to their B side.
We ARE talking about Faithfold potentially drpping their players.
So whilst I am grateful for your attempted response, you are for the second time, incorrect, but you are a decent ref!
All my love
GJ


Location: Borehamwood
Joined: 09/14/2009
Status: Offline

Posted on: Mon, 02/08/2010 - 21:38#22

I am not incorrect at all.

A referee shouldn't have to deal with a situation like this. A referee's job is to apply and follow the laws of the game. League rules must then be applied if they overrule the laws of the game (which, may I add, is allowed)

Something like this should be taken up with league committee at which point the referee can give his opinion/view on what occurred.

I know that if I was the referee in this situation, I would have let the players play - assuming I had their names pre-match - and would then pass on the information in my match report to David Wolff.

And thanks for the last line, much appreciated :)

DC


Location: Barnet
Joined: 09/08/2009
Status: Offline

Posted on: Tue, 02/09/2010 - 00:43#23

i would like to publicly apoligise for insulting david garsons faithfold on this board and calling them rubbish i didnt mean it at all it was wrong of me and i wont do it again.

we did beat them though with no keeper after being a goal down and we are really cr-p ;-)


Location: Borehamwood
Joined: 09/08/2009
Status: Offline

Posted on: Tue, 02/09/2010 - 09:41#24

Nice apology DJ, and how unusual!
Dan, the initial point was in relation to it being against the rules, no one at any stage has made it about Refereeing, it is about our league.
Therefore again you are wrong, but if wish to remain obstinate, please continue to do so.
Much love and kisses.
GTJ



Joined: 10/17/2008
Status: Offline

Posted on: Fri, 02/12/2010 - 15:28#25

I think GTJ and Dan may be at cross purposes.

GJT may be right in that league rules MAY have been broken. However, Dan is also correct in saying that as the actual Laws of the Game were not contravened the referee had no option but to allow the players to take part in the game. Naturally the opponents could then lodge a protest to the league afterwards.

To summarise and in peace, you're probably both right !!