The face of occupation


By suzanna
July 27, 2011
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Advis3r

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 11:45

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I trust you will complain about this too - http://www.wickedlocal.com/mansfield/news/x902704903#axzz1TImsrvEo
Apparently it even goes on in Australia
http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/cops-go-undercover-to-...

This was no abduction it was a lawful arrest take time to learn the difference.


rushkin

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 11:49

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I wonder if those Aussie cops wore face masks, were accompanied by armed soldiers and grabbed boys whilst they played football and bundled them into a car?

This form of arrest would never be tolerated in a western democracy.


Real Real Zionist

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 13:08

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Another day same old. what an absolute nightmare of a country.

And of course Western Australia is Australia not illegally occupied territory.


Harvey

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 13:08

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Advis3r
Don't feed the troll


Harvey

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 13:10

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Rushkin
No we just shoot dead our mistaken suspects


suzanna

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 13:27

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I think many more innocent children and women are shot in the occupied territories than are ever shot in the UK or Europe.

Also I don't think the UK police go around arresting minors in the manner portrayed in that video.
Would you find it acceptable if British police arrested children in such a manner?
No one would.


Real Real Zionist

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 13:46

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But Suzanna Britain is a western democracy


suzanna

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 13:57

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I also wonder if a theatre in Britain would be attacked by armed soldiers at the dead of night:

Wed, July 27th

Special forces of the Israeli army attacked the Freedom Theatre in Jenin Refugee Camp at approximately 03:30 this morning (27 July).

freedom_theatre

Ahmad Nasser Matahen, a night guard and technician student at the theatre, was awakened by heavy blocks of stone being hurled at the theatre by soldiers; several windows were shattered. As he opened the door he found masked and heavily armed Israeli soldiers around the theatre.

Ahmed says that the army threw heavy blocks of stone at the theatre, “they told me to open the door to the theatre. They told me to raise my hands and forced me to take my pants down. I thought my time had come, that they would kill me. My brother that was with me was handcuffed.“

The location manager of The Freedom Theatre, Adnan Naghnaghiye, was arrested and taken away to an unknown location together with Bilal Saadi, a member of the board of The Freedom Theatre. When the general manager of the theatre Jacob Gough from the UK and the co-founder of the theatre Jonatan Stanczak from Sweden arrived to the scene, they were forced at gunpoint to squat next to a family with four small children surrounded by approximately 50 heavily armed Israeli soldiers.

Jonatan says: “Whenever we tried to tell them that they are attacking a cultural venue and arresting members of the theatre we were told to shut up and they threatened to kick us. I tried to contact the civil administration of the army to clarify the matter but the person in charge hung up on me.“


StevenKalka

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 13:58

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Has any blogger ever expressed an epiphany on this site? Anyone ever said, "I've believed "X" for a long time, but after further consideration and genuflection, I now believe "Y" "?

I've never read such a post. It would be great if I did.


suzanna

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 14:03

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Do you mean 'reflection' rather than 'genuflection'?

Genuflection: an act of bending the knee or touching it to the ground in reverence or worship.


StevenKalka

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 14:25

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'Reflection' is the correct term. I've read 'genuflection' used in that context, but I think it was a mistake. The secondary definition I saw was 'servilely obedient, respectful' which doesn't apply here.


suzanna

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 14:31

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There you go - you have confirmed your hypothesis. You have, after consideration and 'reflection', changed your opinion from 'x' to 'y'.


Advis3r

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 14:39

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Jerusalem is not illegally occupied - until a peace settlement is agreed and sovereignty determined Israel legally occupies all parts of Judea and Samaria (leaving aside its claims to these territories)in the same way as the Allies occupied Germany over which they had no territorial claims after World War II.


StevenKalka

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 14:40

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Thanks, Suzanna. I like that. We agree on something.

If I had to come up with a theme song for the way certain bloggers express the same basic idea with the same arguments over and over again, it would be
"The Circle Game" by Joni Mitchell.

http://www.lyricsfreak.com/j/joni+mitchell/the+circle+game_20075378.html


Harvey

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 15:26

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Kalka
How's this for an x / y equation
I used to believe in a single Palestinian state from the " river to the sea " but I now believe it would be better to accept israel and make a meaningful life for myself and my family
QED


Real Real Zionist

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 16:02

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Jerusalem is not illegally occupied

I'll pass your opinion on to the British foreign office and the foreign offices of every country in the world. I am sure they will be grateful for the correction


StevenKalka

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 16:46

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Harvey, that's a good one. Thumbs up.

Real Real Zionist, what kind of a weak argument is that? You made no real case, and you're grasping at straws.

The international law is not rocket science. The so called victorious nation is only illegally occupying the conquered territory if the defeated nation recognizes its opponent, and negotiates peace in good faith, and the victor refuses to withdraw its troops. Even if that doesn't happen, international law grants greater title to the victor if it fought a war of defense, which applies to Israel.

Real Real Zionist, I have a question for you. If you were charged with a crime and tried before a judge and jury, how would you like your trial to proceed? Would you like to be judged on popular sentiment or on the law as worded and in accordance with legal precedent? What would greater serve justice?


amber

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 16:50

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There is no "occupation". This land was given to the Jews by both the Balfour declaration and the League of Nations.

The Arabs rejected tha partition plan, whilst the Jews accepted it. There is simply no legal basis for claiming that this is either an "occupation", or that it is "illegal".


amber

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 16:51

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It should also be noted that the author here, suzanna, has expressed her admiration for Hamas, the genocidal neo-Nazi antisemitic terror organization on these very blogs.

That is where she is coming from.


StevenKalka

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 17:11

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I want to give them a run for their money and play the devil's advocate.


Real Real Zionist

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 17:25

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Balfour and or The League of Nations owned the land and were able to give it away ?


Advis3r

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 17:54

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The Arabs certainly didn't own it! The Jews had and continue to have an historic legal and moral claim. By the way what kind of a Zionist are you if deny the rights of Jews to self determination in its ancient homeland - I smell a rat.


amber

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 17:56

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The land was not Arab, and never had been, neither as part of a Palestinian political entity, nor in private ownership.

You made all kinds of spurious legal claims, and it becomes apparent that you haven't got a clue what you're talking about.


amber

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 18:00

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real real zionist (who is nothing of the kind) - you should also be aware that 80% of Palestine was given to the Arabs, illegally, in the form of Transjordan (now Jordan). This was land which had also been designated for a future Jewish state by the League of Nations, and the ruling was never rescinded by the UN.


StevenKalka

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 18:04

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Real Real Zionist, your name is a misnomer.

The land was a part of the Ottoman Empire for centuries.
In tha aftermath of WWI, it became a British mandate. In 1948, Britain relinquished control and the UN partitioned the land. A Jewish state was created about the same size as the US state of New Jersey.

If the question is who had legal title to the land, in 1948 70% of Israel's land was public; undeveloped desert. The rest was private land owned by Jews and Arabs.

FYI.

http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2010/06/17/top-ten-myths-about-the-i...


StevenKalka

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 18:45

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Real Real Zionist, you should rename yourself "Real Real Kvetch". How's that?


Joe Millis

Wed, 07/27/2011 - 22:30

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Sorry, Steve, but the standard measurement for Israel is "the same size as Wales".


StevenKalka

Thu, 07/28/2011 - 13:20

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Yes, Wales is closer in size than New Jersey, although they're still in the same ballpark.

Israel 7,922 sq. miles
Wales 8,022 sq. miles
NJ 8,722 sq. miles

I guess US publications compare it to NJ, as its more familiar; while those in the UK comare it to Wales, as it's not only more familiar but a closer fit.


Advis3r

Thu, 07/28/2011 - 13:27

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Lucky Wales - no Hamas to its south and no Hezbollah to its north.


suzanna

Thu, 07/28/2011 - 13:36

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'The Arabs certainly didn't own it! The Jews had and continue to have an historic legal and moral claim'.

This is the bit I don't get. Where is the historic and moral claim?
(please don't mention the bible)

And what of the people who were actually living in Palestine? Don't they have a claim to the land that was owned and worked by their parents and parent's parents?


suzanna

Thu, 07/28/2011 - 13:38

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Lucky Wales also that it doesn’t have an occupying army swarming all over it administering arbitrary justice and shooting at will!


amber

Thu, 07/28/2011 - 16:48

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The historic claim is precisely that - this land only ever belonged to the Jews, both privately and as a Jewish state, and subsequently became state land for several occupying powers, none of whom granted it independence.

The moral claim is also precisely that - 80% of Palestine was given to the Arabs to create a new artificial "Palestinian" state - called Jordan. The Jews were left with the remaining one fifth, of which half was again awarded to the Arabs under the UN partition plan, which the Jews accepted and the Arabs rejected - to this day.

Please go back to school suzanna.

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