Message just received.Should we be ashamed of this?


By Stanley Walinets
December 19, 2011
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Here's a message just received. I look forward to the heated responses to come, which will doubtless scream at me as a 'delegitimiser', at the Israeli demonstrators involved who are also self-delegitisers, will tell me how many other nations all do much worse, how we should rejoice because Israel is a true democracy, etc etc etc.

Dear Stanley,

I have just been released from jail, after three days inside. I was arrested last Friday, together with 22 others, in the village of Nabi Saleh, during a demonstration commemorating the murder of Mustafa Tamimi. Our arrest took place as we peacefully protested near the entrance to the Jewish-only settlement of Halamish, which is built on lands stolen from Nabi Saleh.

Minutes after we got to the gate, Israeli Border Police officers moved in to remove us from the scene. Palestinians, Israeli and international activists, we were all shackled and dragged away into military jeeps that transported us to the adjacent military base, which is in fact part of the settlement.

In the military base, still shackled, I was assaulted by a settler who hit me in the face, leaving me with a bloody nose. Shortly after, the settler also attacked a female Israeli activist who was by my side. The soldiers and policemen present did not prevent the attack, nor did they bother to detain the settler after the fact. Instead, the zip-tie locks on my hands were removed, only for my arms to be bound again, this time behind my back.

Hours later, at the police station, I learned that to cover up their responsibility for my attack, the soldiers have laid a bogus complaint against me for assaulting them. My hands were tied, my face was bleeding, but it was I who spent the night in the inside of prison cell.

Mohammed Tamimi from Nabi Saleh was also arrested during that same demonstration. While the police decided to release all the others, he and I were to remain in jail. During our demonstrations, soldiers often take pictures, to later use them as "incriminating evidence". This time, the soldiers used one such picture to accuse Mohammed of throwing stones during a demonstration a few weeks or months back. The man pictured in that photograph is not Mohammed Tamimi from Nabi Saleh, regardless, he remains in jail. Military law allows Israel to keep us Palestinians in jail for eight days before seeing a judge, and even then, it is a soldier in uniform who is the so called neutral arbitrator.

As the prison doors closed behind me, my happiness was clouded by the fact that Mohammed Tamimi was not released. The battle for his freedom is only beginning, as our lawyers prepare the petition for his release. If you can, please help us fund legal aid for him and for the countless others who are regularly arrested protesting Israeli Occupation.

I would also like to use this letter to extend my gratitude to Ayala Shani, an Israeli comrade who was arrested with me. She refused the injustice of being released while both me and Mohammed Tamimi were still detained. As these words are written, she is still in jail, despite having been offered her freedom twice already by Israeli courts.

Sincerely,
Mohammed Khatib

(Mohammed Khatib is a protest organizer from the village of Bil'in, was arrested during a demonstration in memory of the killing of Mustafa Tamimi. Mustafa was murdered by a soldier who shot a single tear-gas projectile at him from only a few meters away while standing safely within an armoured military jeep.

The demonstration Khatib was arrested in, together with 22 others - Palestinians, Israelis and internationals - was the first to take place after the shooting. The Israeli army, unaccountable and unaffected, supressed this demonstration too, barraging the protesters with tear-gas and making arrests.

COMMENTS

Jonathan Hoffman

Mon, 12/19/2011 - 17:22

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Your last post was about Sir Robert Atkins' visit to Gaza - which has since been utterly discredited by his use of antisemitic language - which completely passed you by of course.

In due course I am sure that this one will be equally utterly discredited.

The problem is that you are a 'cut and paste' merchant who salivates when he sees anything that demonises Israel and who rushes to 'cut and paste' it completely uncritically.

Try engaging that brain occasionally


Advis3r

Mon, 12/19/2011 - 17:33

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As usual nothing positive to say about the Palestinians just some more nihilism from the venerable Walinets.
Tamimi was not murdered - at least no court has pronounced on the incident as yet and in Israel one is innocent until proved guilty. However Walinets feels free to post a wholly uncorroborated story which convicts without the defendant having his day in court - what is it they say about the tyranny of the left. What is there to be ashamed about - that a violent protestor was put in prison where he belongs?


Advis3r

Mon, 12/19/2011 - 17:45

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By the way about Halamish - residents of the nearby Arab village of Deir Nidham went to the Supreme Court of Israel and claimed ownership of the Havlata Hill, which is now in the centre of Halamish. Based on aerial photos from the turn of the 20th century, showing the disputed land to be barren, based on Ottoman Empire land law specifying that land not worked for over ten years becomes state land, the land on that hill was declared state land and freed for construction by the Jewish community.
Nabi Saleh is an Arab only village - no Jew who valued his life would take a step inside it let alone live there.
"I was assaulted by a settler" and he knew this because?


Mary in Brighton

Mon, 12/19/2011 - 17:50

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"......and in Israel one is innocent until proved guilty."

"......that a violent protestor was put in prison where he belongs?"

Do you want to try that again?

"The problem is that you are a 'cut and paste' merchant..."

Copy and paste merchant? Jonathan? Cough.

And I suppose there are brains, and I suppose there are brains.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBH6XONDpes&list=PL184F6C508064E7BD&index...


KatieCarslake

Mon, 12/19/2011 - 18:01

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Mary, I think what Advis3r is trying to tell us is that in Israel, Jews are presumed innocent until proven guilty.


Advis3r

Mon, 12/19/2011 - 18:27

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Here we go - the protestor was arrested in the middle of committing a violent disorder - same thing happens on most Friday and Saturday nights in the middle of most UK cities so he is arrested and jailed pending a court appearance but trust libellous Katie and Mary having nothing positive to say about the Palestinians come up with more lies about Israel.


Mary in Brighton

Mon, 12/19/2011 - 18:47

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No. In Britain he would be deemed to have been arrested on SUSPICION of committing a violent disorder. But for you the soldier who shot Tamimi in the face with a tear gas canister at point blank range is innocent until proven guilty ( how is the " investigation " coming along by the way )

His brother , by contrast , is arrested IN THE MIDDLE OF COMMITTING a violent disorder.

I think you are busted. Get a hobby, you hurt Israel every time you hit the keyboard. And I type as anything but a fan of the West Sussex constabulary.


Mary in Brighton

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:14

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Advsr do you purport to teach ME about UK arrest process and etiquette ?

And what kind of disorder is it that causes you to be unable to wait until comments are open and post on the relevant blog ?


Advis3r

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:23

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Sigh shall I put it here then to satisfy your OCD - no Mary once again you have it wrong.

The grounds for making an arrest are that a constable has reasonable grounds to believe that a person is committing, has committed or is about to commit an offence and importantly, that an arrest is necessary for any of the criteria listed in Section 110 of the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005.

Arresting officers are required to inform the person arrested that they have been arrested, even if this fact is obvious, and of the relevant circumstances of the arrest in relation to both elements and to inform the custody officer of these on arrival at the police station.

So, a PC might say "I am arresting you for assault and to prevent you causing injury to any other person". Not necessarily "on suspicion"!

Unless impossible to do so he must then caution the arrested person thus “You do not have to say anything. But it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in Court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence.”

I think you are the busted one.

Oh and what was that you said - "a bunch of paranoid, indiscerning, nothing better to do with their time whiners" O would some power the giftie gie us to see ourselves as others see us - lol!


Mary in Brighton

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:29

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Oh goodie you seem cured


Advis3r

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:31

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No just pandering to the in denial and intellectually challenged.


Advis3r

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 10:51

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You know what you remind of a joke I once heard

Chaim was driving down Golders Green Road when he gets pulled over by a policeman.
Walking up to Chaim's car, the policeman says, "I've come to tell you that your wife fell out your car some 2 miles back."
Chaim replies, "Thank goodness, I thought I'd gone deaf."


Yvetta

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 11:03

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Funny (peculiar) how the bash Israel lefties hardly if ever open their mouths to bash Muslim societies over their despicable treatment of women.
What do you lot who are so ever-alert for the teeniest hint of harshness by the IDF say about the Egyptian army's beating of women in Tahrir Square?
Nada, nada?


Mary in Brighton

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 11:03

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Sigh Someone is arrested on the grounds of reasonable belief, ie SUSPICION, charged on the basis of such evidence as there is, and convicted on the basis of a district judge or a jury deciding there is guilt beyond reasonable doubt.

This is all theory of course, the West Sussex Constabulary gave difficulty grasping it. Maybe you could get a job with them ?

But all this is a long way from the topic which is your assertion that the soldier who shot Mustafa Tamimi in the face with a tear gas canister at point blank range is innocent until proven guilty, because that is how it is on Israel, and your declaration of Mohamed Tamimi's guilt, without any knowledge of what happened, your nil evidence and without trial.

Thank you for confirming what we already knew.

In the territories it is Jews that are innocent until proven guilty.

Any answer to the what kind of disorder question ?


Real Real Zionist

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 11:35

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" In the territories it is Jews that are innocent until proven guilty "

And innocent when proven guilty


Harvey

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 11:57

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Rrz and others
Any chance you saw the channel 4 documentary on Syria torture machine . Some pretty sickening imagery posted by Assads thugs on You tube . 6000 dead to date but a long way to go before he hits his dads 50,000 . I guess that makes him even more of a failure to the hardliners pulling on this little sock puppet for the regime .
Any chance we will see the stoppers / psc and other assorted 'humanitarians taking the short walk over to the Syrian embassy in Belgrave Square after the lie down in Kensington high street next Tuesday . Really ? No ? Why not ? ( no need to answer we already know )
Xx


Real Real Zionist

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 12:05

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Syria got into this how ?


Jonathan Hoffman

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 13:50

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http://cifwatch.com/2010/07/14/the-judge-who-thought-he-was-defence-coun...

How utterly hypocritical of an anti-israel Activist in BRIGHTON to pontificate about 'Justice' ...

Were you one of the people who trashed the EDO factory and got off scot-free because of an outrageously biased Judge?


Harvey

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 14:00

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Exactly my point rrz . Half a million dead in Irak . Murder and mayhem on a vast scale throughout the rest of the Arab world . Iran openly murdering its own citizens an air of breathtaking impunity . None of it registers on the so called humanitarian radar .
Stop the war , Amnesty etc just utter silence . The only thing that lights up your sparklers is Israel and its battle to maintain its very existence in a maelstrom of Arab barbarism .
If there was the merest hint of condemnation of all the above which provided some sort of balance I could understand . But there is not . So I entirely understand where you are coming from and the real underlying hatred of the vast majority of Palestines newly found friends and hangers on .


Real Real Zionist

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 14:29

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Harvey why are you telling me all this?


Advis3r

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 15:46

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why because that's all you bunch of paranoid, indiscerning, nothing better to do with their time anti-Israel whiners deserve.Satisfied?


Real Real Zionist

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 16:00

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Thank you Harvey. That wasn't so painful was it.


Harvey

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 16:15

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Eh? That was advis3r who responded not me .
Always thought you might be a bot - new series .
Please type figures you see below
LtA54h


Real Real Zionist

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 16:33

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doh. I knowwwwwwwww

But you have to admit he is bit of a ventriloquists dummy


Advis3r

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 17:30

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Better than the organ-grinder's monkey!


Chris Tucker (not verified)

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 18:36

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Do you not like Brighton, Hoffman?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwOCH1K7sYg


Mary in Brighton

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 18:52

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Hey look, I'm a reasonable and accommodating person. I am willing to move to Eastbourne if it will make Jonathan happy.


Stanley Walinets

Wed, 12/21/2011 - 19:29

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Like I said at the beginning: "Here's a message just received. I look forward to the heated responses to come, which will doubtless scream at me as a 'delegitimiser', at the Israeli demonstrators involved who are also self-delegitisers, will tell me how many other nations all do much worse, how we should rejoice because Israel is a true democracy, etc etc etc."

And here they've all come - 27 messages within one day of my posting and 15 or so of them precisely the kind of responses I predicted. Many with the usual insults to prove how right they are. Methinks the ladies and the gentlemen do protest too much.....

I'll respond to a few of the 'arguments' raised (while fully aware that my responses will be half-read, rubbished and screamed at again, so as to prove how wrong I am):-

1) Advs3r: "...the Supreme Court of Israel claimed ownership of the Havlata Hill, which is now in the centre of Halamish. Based on aerial photos from the turn of the 20th century," (i,e., 100+ years ago...) "showing the disputed land to be barren, based on Ottoman Empire land law specifying that land not worked for over ten years becomes state land, the land on that hill was declared state land and freed" (by the Supreme Court of Israel....hm.mmm) "for construction by the Jewish community."
Not, then, freed for the Palestinians who happened to be living there 100+ years after those century-old Ottoman photos? No - s'ppose not - the Ottoman Empire obviously thought "We'd better reserve that land for the Israeli Empire, just in case Israel gets created sometime..."

2a) Harvey: "Half a million dead in Irak . Murder and mayhem on a vast scale throughout the rest of the Arab world . Iran openly murdering its own citizens an air of breathtaking impunity . None of it registers on the so called humanitarian radar .
Stop the war , Amnesty etc just utter silence ....
If there was the merest hint of condemnation of all the above which provided some sort of balance I could understand . But there is not ...."

2b): Advs3r: "Funny (peculiar) how the bash Israel lefties hardly if ever open their mouths to bash Muslim societies over their despicable treatment of women.
What do you lot who are so ever-alert for the teeniest hint of harshness by the IDF say about the Egyptian army's beating of women in Tahrir Square?"

Since you're interested, my wife and I were horrified and revolted at the article and photo in the 19th Dec Guardian (the Guardian? The Lefty unmentionable GUARDIAN? Surely not...) showing a woman being brutally dragged across Tahrir Square. My shock increased when L*ft* friends in New York, equally distressed, sent me clips of the full incident, filmed -and also condemned - by Jadalyya.com. So I emailed my friends the report from the Guardian website, for their further interest.
Actually, I'm also very concerned that Durham County Council is closing some of our libraries.

Can't think why I haven't blogged to the JC about these and other issues, since I do feel strongly about them. Could it simply be because the JC is about Israel's problems? Other issues, I take to other forums.

3) Mr Hoffman: "The problem is that you are a 'cut and paste' merchant who salivates when he sees anything that demonises Israel and who rushes to 'cut and paste' it completely uncritically."

Forgive me, Jonathan, if I hoist my umbrella when you oh-so-Rightly salivate against anyone who suggests that Israel is sometimes wrong. You get upset, because you really do believe that Israel can never, ever, do wrong. Reason and facts leave you untouched. Have you considered therapy?

4) I do notice that none of those who've bombarded me have mentioned the fact that Israelis were among those demonstrating alongside this man.....


Advis3r

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 10:30

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2b not me guvnor!

We gave you the benefit of the doubt that this message was actually received and not concocted by you to suit your agenda - and put up arguments against it. To paraphrase Christopher Hitichins your post was notable for one thing - its smell - none of it is corroborated by a third party.

What we received from you in reply is
1) cheap cynicsm (by the Supreme Court of Israel....hm.mmm) and
2)disingenuity freed for the Palestinians who happened to be living there the land was barren and there was nobody living there - that is the point that even a hundred years ago there was no one there so no claim can be made by the "Palestinians" who did not even exist then that they have been there for generations and therefore it belongs to them. Accordingly it becomes State land - that's how the Jordanians dealt with it before 1967.

And no I do not agree that this website was set up solely "about Israel's problems" but being someone who cares little about the Palestinians - if you would you would be promoting rapprochment not putting the boot into Israel at every opportunity - you try and delegitmize both Israel her people and her institutions at every turn and post nothing which would remotely lead to any of the pro-Israel posters reconsidering their position.

So I'll make you a deal you stick to the problem of Durham's dwindling libraries and I won't post nasties about the UK in fact leave Israel's problems to those of us who actually live here and have to cope with them.


Stanley Walinets

Fri, 12/30/2011 - 19:05

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Forgive my delay in responding, Advs3r - holiday demands, etc....
So -
1) "We gave you the benefit of the doubt that this message was actually received and not concocted by you"
How kind of you. I'll shortly be posting another experience that's come my way (watch my space). You'll doubtless have difficulty believing I didn't 'concoct' that too, for you're clearly reluctant to believe anything you disagree with.

2) "...cheap cynicsm (by the Supreme Court of Israel....hm.mmm)". And "disingenuity - 'freed for the Palestinians who happened to be living there' - the land was barren and there was nobody living there - that is the point that even a hundred years ago there was no one there so no claim can be made by the "Palestinians" who did not even exist then that they have been there for generations and therefore it belongs to them...."

The fact is, it WAS Israel's Court that made that decision; and it decided in favour of the Israeli 'incomers', who had only come to live there post 1948, not the Palestinians who HAD come to live there in those intervening years following the Ottoman's ruling. The street I grew up in in Leeds, didn't exist, didn't have anyone living there around 1900: so did that then entitle the British Court to say, come the 1950's, that that land was barren around 1910 therefore my family, who came to live in our street in 1938, didn't exist? Did it?

Anyway - I'm about to post something else. See you later, no doubt.

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