Palestine Solidarity Campaign try to cover up murder

I saw a picture of Jonathan Hoffman standing shoulder to shoulder with the EDL at one of the Ahava protests.

I'll see if I can find it again and I'll attach the link.

Aren't the EDL a bit, er, Nazi in their tone?

We know about the pix, but it isn't necessary to bring them out now, because Jonathan claims to have nothing to do with the EDL. Of course, if a sort of 43 Group is formed, then it'll have to take on the EDL and its Jewish Division, too.

Let's focus on real threats, as Gary Rosenblatt writes here

Moreover, this new effort is representative of what Martin Raffel, the Jewish Council for Public Affairs senior vice president, calls a growing trend — the downside of the “democratization of advocacy.”
As head of a communal effort to counter delegitimization efforts, he sees more and more individuals and small groups able to mobilize sentiment easily and quickly on the Internet today, often with disturbing effects.
“There is very little filtering, verifying facts, putting issues in context, or looking at strategic objectives,” he said. “Anyone with a PC is an organization now, answerable only to themselves. And they are injecting themselves into the bloodstream of Jewish discourse, reaching thousands of people, and making our work more difficult.”
The new advocates tend to be “rebellious toward the establishment and feel they have the corner on the truth,” says Raffel, “and we have to grapple” with the fallout.

Indeed, all these one-man-and-a-dog "watch" groups have to do is make some outlandish and unverified claim, and they get the real journalists running and publishing.
They are irresponsible and help only themselves and those whom they claim are the enemy. To paraphrase Margaret Thatcher, they should be denied the oxygen of publicity, because they are a danger to all of those of us who are interested in proper discourse.

"Indeed, all these one-man-and-a-dog "watch" groups". -You should not make assumptions.

"outlandish and unverified claim" -There is photographic proof.

As Gary Rosenblatt says, 'let’s start by agreeing that targeting our own, aggressively and irresponsibly, hurts our cause and our community.'

Aren't the EDL a bit, er, Nazi in their tone?

Err, no.
But your friends Hamas ARE Nazis.

Hamas are Nazis, Leah, but so are the EDL

You are talking about salt-of-the-earth ordinary British people Millis. They are not Nazis. There are a significant number of people in Britain who think they are making a good point. They also came into existence as a response to militant Islamic fundamentalism (e.g. Wooton Basset protests where people claiming to represent Islam called British soldiers murderers and baby killers).

Hamas on the other hand, actually do Heil-Hitler salutes and actually call for the deaths of Jews.

Moral equivalence between the two is absolutely disgusting. You should hang your head in shame.

You mean THESE salt of the earth ordinary British people, Matt?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFbICgWlnLk

'Just goes to show the "Pro-Palestinians" true colours as the hateful bloody supporters of terrorism that they are'.

More so called 'supporters of terrorism':

War on Want
Amnesty International
CAFOD
Oxfam
ICAHD
Breaking the Silence
Save the Children
Medical Aid for Palestinians
International Committee of the Red Cross
Gush Shalom
B'tselm
UN

and on and on the list grows.

I haven't watched your video but I am guessing the contents. Probably thugs. Probably racists. Yes there are plenty of those in Britain. Not everyone outside north London is as refined as you are. Nazis? No. That word is reserved for people who actually believe the same things as Hitler and who want the same goals. I.e., Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, et al.

I would point out that I do not believe that targeting Muslims is in any way constructive or moral. Actually I think Muslims should be encouraged to support Israel and all the EDL do is alienate them. This will not lead to peace or integration.

You should have a little peek at the video. It may alter your opinion that the EDL are:

'salt-of-the-earth ordinary British people'

Oh, here is a picture of Jonathan Hoffman (is he doing a Nazi salute?)and the EDL. Not the one I previously saw.

http://randompottins.blogspot.com/2010/08/snap-what-united-david-and-rob...

Yes Lukas, lots of left-wing terrorist sympathising political groups which regularly attack Israel, some of whom do so with charitable donations. Shocking. Let me add some others to that list:

President Ahmedinejad of Iran
Ayatollah Khamenei
Colonel Gadaffi
IHH
Stormfront
President Assad of Syria

Still feel in such good company?

I feel in very good company - the same company that advocates rights and justice for the occupied Palestinians.

I am very sure that we are winning the argument and your and others' attempts to assimilate us with Nazism and Ayatollah Khomeini is both desperate and ridiculous.

I'm sure B'tslem doesn’t consider itself in the same camp as Colonel Gadaffi. And quite frankly what has he got to do with the occupation? It is Israel, not Gaddaffi, that kills scores of Palestinian civilians every year, that builds walls around entire populations, that builds illegal settlements, that executes civilian protestors in international waters.

Matt, do you mean these kind of salutes by EDL members?

Or this one, perhaps?

Indeed, Salz der Erde

Joe, if you have time can you see if you can find any pictures of members of Amnesty International,Oxfam, B'tslem or Gush Shalom giving Nazi salutes?

Apparently, unlike the EDL, they are not good old salt-of-the-earth types.

@Millis

The people doing heil-Hitler salutes in the photos above are clearly neo-Nazi idiots. Yes there are plenty of those in Britain as well as in any other country. That does not prove your argument.

Show me photos of organised rallies where everyone is doing Nazi salutes, and show me pamphlets and material that call for the deaths of Jews. Then I will agree with you that the EDL is a neo-Nazi organisation following in Hitler's footsteps (like Hamas).

I do not believe that the EDL is an intelligent response to the challenges we face in Britain. I do not encourage people to join their group, I think it's unwise. I think they are causing more harm to social cohesion than good. That does not justify labelling them "Nazis". And you only do so to deflect criticism from Hamas, since you must know that the two are not comparable. Why do you do this?

@Lukas (whoever the hell you are):

Palestinian independence is a political cause much the same as Basque or Tamil independence. It is one that is championed by some of the worst despots around the world, including Ghadaffi, Ahmedinejad (and formerly Saddam Hussein). Those people advocate Palestinian statehood mainly because they oppose Zionism (i.e. the existence of Israel), or because they simply hate Jews. The fact that you also sympathise with their cause (with some passion judging by the frequency and offensive nature of your posts here) coupled with your refusal to distance yourself from Hamas, Hezbollah etc, puts you firmly in the same boat.

And yes, the same goes for "charitable" organisations such as Oxfam, Red Cross and War on Want.

Deal with it. You picked this cause and have nobody to blame but yourself for moral judgement passed on you.

I don't need to distance myself from Hamas as, unlike your defence of the patently Nazi EDL, I am not going around calling Hamas 'salt-of-the-earth' types.

You may pass whatever judgement you like upon me. Just try and choose another other than the clearly predictable 'terrorist supporter', 'Nazi', 'anti Semite'. That accusation has lost its bearings many, many years ago as is evidenced by the broad support for justice and equity for the Palestinians from the British trade unions, to the S African Churches to dozens of international and reputable NGOs (including Jewish and Israeli ones) to the countless UN Resolutions calling for a stop to the occupation and killing of Palestinians the hands of Israel.

If you attack British people and call them Nazis when they are not, I will defend them. They are my countrymen and they have a right to their views whether I agree with them or not. Deal with it.

Assuming you are not Palestinian yourself (if you are, you should disclose this fact), you are under no such obligation to defend foreign terrorist organisations. Yet you do.

Yes, Matt, they are Nazi idiot members of the EDL. Claiming them to be "salt of the earth" shows your own moral corruption.
And by the way, the most Zionist thing you could do is to support Israel as the Jewish democratic state -- and that means backing a two-state solution and dissociating yourself from those who support the toxic settlement enterprise.

How dare you lecture me about moral corruption, you fool.

I'm not lecturing you about moral corruption, Matt, but calling the EDL "salt of the earth" does call into question your moral judgment and is indicative of moral corruption. Live with it.

Matt'EDL'Pryor: Palestinians aren't terrorists. They are occupied.

If the EDL are your 'countrymen' why are you under the 'obligation' to defend foreign apartheid governments?

The PSC are lying scum. Bruce Levy at the Ahava hatefest is on record as saying that Gilad Shalit should be dug up and buried again. They lied about the reason John Lewis stopped stocking Ahava products. Lying scum.

Whatever. I honestly don't care what you think of me. If you think calling my countrymen "salt of the earth" makes me morally corrupt then that's your lookout. I don't think very highly of you either, and I'm certain that I'm not alone. Live with that.

Meanwhile, your mate Lukas (who you gleefully side with against me) is once again accusing Israel of deliberately murdering children on another blog. Are you going to answer him or continue questioning my "moral judgement"?

You didn't call 'my countrymen' 'salt of the earth' you called the EDL 'salt of the earth'! A different thing altogether.

Don't try and delfect attention away from your endorsement of the EDL by goading others into aiming their guns at me.

You like the EDL.

No, Matt, I don't march to your or Lukas's drum. And being disingenuous doesn't help you dig yourself out of a hole either. Are the BNP "salt of the earth", because they are your countrymen, too? The PSC mob and the SWPers? Perhaps you think that MCB are salt of the earth, too.

Jonathan, I wouldn't go into what Bruce Levy said without referring to your own comments towards him. Calling someone "The queen of renegade Jews" is a bit homophobic, isn't it?
Is it any wonder people are being turned off supporting Israel if that kind of behaviour is employed?
How's the suspension going?

@Lukas

I think anyone with an IQ above 50 would be able to read this thread and see that you are talking absolute nonsense, as usual.

@Millis: Same reply as to Lukas.

You are a complete waste of time and effort.

Joe: THIS Bruce Levy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBH6XONDpes&feature=player_embedded

Hey, Matt, you were the one who said that the EDL were "salt of the earth" because they were "my countrymen". Now, do the honourable thing and do one.

matt'EDL'pryor, am I talking nonsense when I say that you wrote:

'You are talking about salt-of-the-earth ordinary British people Millis. They (the EDL) are not Nazis. There are a significant number of people in Britain who think they are making a good point'.

Oh, by the way what is the 'good point' the EDL are making?

I can't think of one so perhaps you, a supporter of the EDL, could tell me?

Watchful, yes, that one. I had forgotten what an embarrassment to the Zionist movement those demonstrators are. I'm glad the ZF distanced itself from them.

Watchful - I just watched your link. That was Jonathan Hoffman I do beleive?

He is so abusive and nasty. I pity the poor man (Bruce Levy?) who had to endure being in such proximity to him. Mind you, the more one sees of Jonathan Hoffman the more it explains his posts.

I bet his mum loves him.

Lucas: It was, indeed.

Why is he calling the other man (Bruce Levy?) the 'Queen of renegade Jews'? I get the renegade bit but the 'queen' bit? Is it a homophobic reference?

I do like his little rhyme.

'ISM, PSC, want to kill Jews like me'

Very neat. Totals bollox of course.

Watchful, leave his parents out of it (especially his late mother who died last year). No need to stoop to his level.

I didn't know. I beg your pardon.

Lucas: Yes, "Queen" is a homophobic reference.

So is Bruce Levy - and I honestly don't know who Bruce Levy is - supposed to be gay?

If so, once again, J Hoffman shows all the charm of a dog's butt.

It's funny how those who are always indignant at other people’s behaviour are in fact crude, reactionary and slanderous themselves.

What an incredibly nasty, vindictive bunch of pond life you are. The only thing that unites you is your spite and malice.

Shame on the Jewish Chronicle for giving you space to express such poison.

"Hamas are Nazis, Leah, but so are the EDL"

What utter nonsense. They are not calling for genocide - Hamas are.

"It's funny how those who are always indignant at other people’s behaviour are in fact crude, reactionary and slanderous themselves"

How true: that describes your posts about Israel to a T.

Matt P. - seconded.

Leah, the EDL and their brothers-in-arms over at the BNP want Britain free of people they don't like. At the moment, it's the Muslims, then it'll be the Jews. People who give Nazi salutes are Nazis, pure and simple.

I see the bullies don't like it when people stand up to them.

"the patently Nazi EDL"

So many posters who haven't a clue what the term 'Nazi' means ...

"I see the bullies don't like it when people stand up to them"

How true. You and your friends Hamas and PSC and BDS don't like it when people stand up to you, do you?

Leah, see my posting of 13:28 to see what real Nazis look like. They are what Matt described as "salt of the earth" because they are his countrymen.