"The Promise" - ZF Press Release

You are a delusions Jonathan. The Nakba really did happen. Denial of this is as crazy as the idiots who say that the Holocaust never happened. The Palestinians were thrown out of their homes by Jews in 1947 and 1948. I should know because my family were removed by force from their home. To deny this is just naivety.

You are a delusions Jonathan.

And you are a little deluded about your English, too.

The Nakba really did happen.

The Jewish one, yes. Fleeing one's home on the suggestion of your 'friends' is also a catastrophe, but one that should be blamed on the 'friends'. Remember that the Arab leaders, including the dictator of Judea Samaria, that 'Palestinians' went out on the suggestion of Arabs, in order to let them genocide the Jews in the newly born Israel.

That is history, hater simoneq, as opposed to your rants.

Nobody denies anything. The arab flight from Palestine is well documented and continues to be studied as part of Israel's history. The causes for it were complicated and not all due to a single factor, and included:

- People fleeing their homes as there was a war on (this is quite normal in times of conflict)
- People vacating to friendly countries at the advice / insistence of local and regional leaders, based on a promise of return once the Jews had been driven out
- People being driven from their homes by paramilitary groups

The approximate numbers of people who left which villages and why are listed, with painstaking evidence, in Efraim Karsh's book "Palestine Betrayed" - please give it a read.

Benny Morris's book gives a more thorough explanation.

"that 'Palestinians' went out on the suggestion of Arabs, in order to let them genocide the Jews in the newly born Israel."

Were you there then Jose?
So please don't write all these lies.

No doubt you prefer Morris to Karsh, Milligramsam:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benny_Morris:

Efraim Karsh, professor of Mediterranean Studies at King's College London, writes that Morris engages in what Karsh calls "five types of distortion." According to Karsh, Morris "misrepresents documents, resorts to partial quotes, withholds evidence, makes false assertions, and rewrites original documents... [he] tells of statements never made, decisions never taken, events that never happened ... at times [he] does not even take the trouble to provide evidence..... He expects his readers to take on trust his assertions that fundamental contradictions exist between published accounts and the underlying documents.....he systematically falsifies evidence. Indeed, there is scarcely a document that he does not twist. This casts serious doubt on the validity of his entire work."

Looks like a description of yourself, Milligramsam.

Morris is no friend of the arabs either (he was a proponent of mass expulsion), whereas Karsh takes a much more sympathetic view.

Simoneq: No-one is trying to deny the Palestinian Arabs their history, but to say that the Jews caused their plight is disingenuous and unfair. Jews were victims too. The fault lies mainly with the British establishment and with greedy and corrupt Arab leaders, to whom the population of Palestine were pawns in a bigger power struggle against the allied powers.

And by the way I am British and not Jewish, so I have nothing to gain by lying.

it was the Jews that threw them out of their houses and the Brits. It was the Israeis who threw even more out in 1967 and it it is the Israelis who break all the laws by claiming the west bank for themselves.

it was the Jews that threw them out of their houses

Hater simoneq, what do you think of what the dictator of Judea Samaria said:

“The Arab states succeeded in scattering the Palestinian people and in destroying their unity. They did not recognize them as a unified people until the states of the world did so, and this is regrettable. The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny, but instead they abandoned them, forced them to emigrate and to leave their homeland, imposed upon them a political and ideological blockade and threw them into prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Jews used to live in Eastern Europe.”
-- Abu Mazen (Mahmoud Abbas), from the official journal of the PLO, Falastin el-Thawra (“What We Have Learned and What We Should Do”), Beirut, March 1976.

Are you calling him a liar ???

Simoneq, if you're going to talk about people throwing people out of houses, the Arabs also share plenty of guilt in this - Jordan kicked out thousands when they occupied Judea and Samaria and eastern Jerusalem (and destroyed synagogues and used Jewish graves as paving stones, I might add), and Egypt kicked out thousands when they occupied Gaza.

Hundreds of thousands of Jews - up to a million - were exiled from Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Egypt - the list goes on.

You are not the only people that have suffered, and you are not the only victims.

Hater simoneq, here is the important part that you didn't notice:

The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny, but instead they abandoned them, forced them to emigrate and to leave their homeland

That is what Mahmoud Abbas, present dictator of Judea Samaria had to say about the Nakba.

How can you be such a negationist while Abbas was and is still there, while you pretend that your grandparent fled 'Palestine' before the creation of Israel and the Nakba?
Who are you to tell us the truth?

And while we're on the subject, simoneq, do you not think it's absolutely disgraceful that countries like Jordan and Lebanon still keep the refugees from a war that was 63 years ago in squalid camps and refuse them work or citizenship? Never mind whose fault it was that they were made refugees, how can that be acceptable to you?

Even Britain has taken in thousands of refugees from the 1948 war, and we've given them full citizenship and they're settled here. Why haven't their Arab "brothers" done the same, right next door? Have you ever asked yourself this?

Jose would know all about dictators. After all, he's a Blacklisted Dictator, so he has some sympathy for them. He really should read morris's latest book.

All right, Pryor, would you prefer Lebanon, Jordan etc sent the refugees went they came? Is that at all possible? The refugees aren't Lebanese, Jordanian or whatever. They have their own background, so why should these countries take them in? OK. Israel took in 800k from Arab countries, but these were Jews returning to their national homeland,so they weren't refugees but returnees

Hey, Milligramsam, 'Palestinians' were also returning to their national homelands: Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt...
So they were nore refugees either...

With such 'logic', one does not need a brain.

No, I would prefer they treated them like human beings and not like weapons against Israel, gave them decent homes, an economy, voting rights and citizenship. The UK has done that, and we are hardly underpopulated, so why can't they?

How can you say "The refugees aren't Lebanese, Jordanian, whatever" - 70% of Jordanians are refugees from the 48 war!! The Queen of Jordan is Palestinian! They've lived there for 63 years! They are the majority! If they're not Jordanian then who is??

Would it be acceptable to you if Israel had kept those Arab-Jewish refugees in makeshift camps and spent 60 years teaching them to hate Arabs? Of course not, you'd be horrified. There'd be an outcry. Then why is it okay for Jordan and Lebanon to do it? And why does no-one challenge this?

70% of Jordanians are refugees from the 48 war!

I beg to differ, Matt: 70% of Jordanians are 'Palestinians' mostly because they were already there when British Mandate invented Jordan, or because they are descendants of refugees.

But a descendant of refugee is not a refugee, except by virtue of a totally artificial, racist and sexist definition of the UNRWA.

Why should they assimilate them, Pryor? They aren't Lebanese or Jordanian, or Syrian or Egyptian. They are Palestinian. Now I assume you don't want them to be sent back whence they came because you do not want Israel destroyed. Fair enough and on that we can at least agree.
So what if the Queen of Jordan is Palestinian. The First Lady of Syria is British. The Queen of England is of German origin and her consort is Greek.
The UK isn't Israel. While the number of migrants coming here hasn't really shifted the ethnic proportions all that much, the 750,000 Palestinian refugees would have shifted the ethnic balance in the neighbouring countries.
So again, why should they be granted citizenship of Jordan, Lebanon etc? Are all migrants here granted UK citizenship automatically?
Those Jews from Arab lands weren't refugees, plain and simple (and they don't like being called Arab Jews), they were returnees to their national homeland. One day, when the Palestinian state is set up in the areas vacated by Israel, those Palestinians who want to return will be able to do so.

They aren't Lebanese or Jordanian, or Syrian or Egyptian. They are Palestinian.

There wasn't any such nationality in 1948, Milligramsam, and there is not even today. You're just plain lying and making an anachronism at best, getting totally deluded at worse.

There wasn't any such nationality in 1948,

there most certainly wasn't wasn't any nation called Israel until 1948. Only 4% of the population of Israel/Palestine in 19c. was Jewish.
European Jews stole the land and everyone knows that.

The chickens will come home to roost for Israel

there most certainly wasn't wasn't any nation called Israel until 1948.

There has never been any independant state on these lands that was not called Israel and was Jewish.
Palestine, on the other hand, has never been an independant state and Palestinian has never been a nationality held by any people, hater simoneq.

'Palestinians' are a fictitious people invented for the cause of the destruction of Israel in the 1960s.

Simon, that's a good point. However, the area is the national home of the Jewish people. Even the current Netanyahu-Lieberman government recognises that the Jews didn't return to an empty plot of land and that there is another national group in the area, the Palestinians. Hopefully, leaders of both sides will be truthful enough to level with their people and tell them that the current situation cannot continue.

Simoneq,

"European Jews" did not "steal" anyone's land - that's simply not true. On the whole they bought it fair and square (if it was owned by a private individual, and not part of Ottoman public land). They usually paid very high prices for it. The sellers were eager to sell up, and did pretty bloody well out of it.

You need to stop plotting how you can get revenge against the Jews and start thinking about how you can actually help those people, i.e. improve their lives - pursuing abstract lofty political goals which involve the destruction of Israel will not solve their problems, it will only make them worse.

Exactly Matt, but with haters like simoneq, you are wasting your time.
If 'Palestinians' loved life half as much as Israelis do, peace would have been achieved before the 1980s.
'Palestinians' missed every opportunity to make peace and transformed that in a mega-PR of international hate, such as witnessed in "The Promise".

In the 1900s, simoneq, the region was an underpopulated desert which could barely support 5% of its current population. It was a neglected backwater of the Ottoman Empire. Jewish immigrants brought modern agricultural methods, irrigation, industry, medicine and education. These are all good things, wouldn't you agree?

Up to a point, Pryor. I suggest the next time you are in Israel, you visit the Negev which isn't really benefiting from all that modern agricultural methods, irrigation, industry, medicine and education. It could have been all so different had the Israelis invested in the Negev (and Galilee) -- as suggested by David Ben-Gurion -- rather than squandering billions on settlements in areas they won't keep. Never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity, those Israelis.

Hahahaha! The Israelis spending billions on 'settlements' !

Which imaginary settlements are you speaking about? 'East' Jerusalem?

And how many billions to make a desert inhabitable, Milligramsam?

The two Milligramsam's account are again playing with the point system... Moderator: see http://www.thejc.com/users/joe-millis and http://www.thejc.com/users/joemillis .

Pryor, where you are correct is that most of the land was bought over the odds. However, since 1948 no new Arab towns have been set up and those that do exist are restricted in how they can develop.

However, since 1948 no new Arab towns have been set up and those that do exist are restricted in how they can develop.

Please note that Milligramsam is supposed to be a journalist!

http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story_s.asp?StoryId=1093177915

Of course, Matt, that's in Israel proper. Across the line in the occupied territories the settlers are trying to prevent the Palestinians from building a new town, Rawabi.

Poor Milligramsam, totally disconnected from realities.
The Arab population of Israel has been multiplied by five over sixty years but their towns did not develop...

Ludicrous!

I wonder if the moderator will prevent the person formerly known as Blacklisted Dictator from posting.

I wonder is the moderator will finally terminate the serial libeller Milligramsam and his two accounts:
http://www.thejc.com/users/joe-millis and http://www.thejc.com/users/joemillis .

And I wonder if the moderator will prevent the person formerly known as Blacklisted Dictator from posting.

I'm actually shocked that Blacklisted Dictator hasn't yet deleted one of his posts and then reposted it.

I wonder is the moderator will finally terminate the serial libeller Milligramsam and his two accounts:
http://www.thejc.com/users/joe-millis and http://www.thejc.com/users/joemillis .

I'm still shocked that Blacklisted Dictator hasn't yet deleted one of his posts and then reposted it.

Anyway, he's such a jealous little thing, this Blacklisted Dictator with his repetitive inane and insane rants, that he's not worth the effort. Let him stay up half the night posting and reposting to his heart's content.

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