No to Board Cooperation with NGO which supports Boycott

Ohhhhh Jonathan " all in your power ". That sounds very excitingly.

Be fair Mr Hoffman you are trying to promote settlements again.Settlements are not Israel and are the certainly stopping peace.Lets find a way to stop the settler economy and promote peace and anti price tagging.:)

I agree that the Board must

Take such appropriate action as lies within its power to advance Israel's security, welfare and standing.

.

So what could be more appropriate to help Israel's standing than to support moves to express concern over the arrest of the Women of the Wall? That would help Israel's standing. I look forward to your help in this.

Also, by working with Oxfam, we are helping to explain Israel and possibly make new friends.

Anyway, if you are opposed to it, the link up's guaranteed to be a success. Just sayin'.

Went to a lovely NIF annual dinner last night. A joyous happy event with 500 people in attendance. Not a "everyone is against us" moaning minnie in sight. Quite uplifting. And full of hope - you know, like Hatikva - rather than the despair and hatred the far right wants to spread. 500 people. Proper Zionists. Probably lots of money raised. Probably much more than JNF. Where was its annual dinner? Solly's or Dizengoff?

Keep smiling, mate.

I do hope you are going to keep us regularly updated on this exercise of your power Hoffie.

I can only think this is a case of keep your friends close and your enemies closer still.

http://calevbenyefuneh.blogspot.co.uk/?m=1

Actual article here

http://daphneanson.blogspot.com/2011/05/true-to-its-israel-demonising-tr...

'Oxfam has a history of anti-Israel activity . . . '

You silly little man. What on earth are you talking about?

Why, rather than posting your usual absurdities, don't you express your opinion on Israel / Palestine and how to resolve or progress the peace process.

See if you can.

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2009/08/19/oxfam-and-israel-more-than-...

Millis the Women of the Wall were arrested because they broke the Law - the Law of the State of Israel. So stop your daft attempt to cause even more baseless hatred.

In the words of the Rabbi of the Wall:http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=290483

It is difficult to see a group who, in the name of its values and principles, renounces the verdict of the High Court of Justice. Please let it be clear – the organization of the Women of the Wall and the entire Reform movement are the only Jewish stream to receive from the State of Israel its own private area for prayers at the Western Wall, at an investment of $2 million of taxpayers’ money. All the other tens of streams and sub-streams in the Jewish nation crowd together in the Western Wall Plaza in peace and brotherhood, with mutual respect, and not one of them complains that “this place is too small.”

It is even more difficult to see, in front of the Western Wall stones, scenes of Jews fighting each other and slandering one another. The stones of the Wall still remember the Jewish wars of 2,000 years ago; the libel, the wars of the righteous, the knives drawn on brothers inside the Temple.

It was not the Romans who destroyed Jerusalem, our sages taught us, but the baseless hatred that spread within it.

I have written this before and will write it again – the Western Wall is not Orthodox, just as it is not Reform. The Western Wall was there many years before we sadly split into streams and camps, and will continue to stand strong, God willing, until the Mashiach comes. The Western Wall is the place of prayer for every individual in the nation, and as such it must carefully safeguard the individual’s right to privacy and respect during the precious moments of prayer. The secret of the Western Wall is the secret of diminution, which demands that each one of us minimize the traditions in which we differ and focus on what is common and which unifies us.

For this reason, and this reason alone, there will not be at the Western Wall a demonstration quorum of Women of the Wall, just as there will not be at the Western Wall a “gathering” of a hassidic leader.

This is the one place, perhaps the last, where we are all united as Jews. It would be terrible if here, too, we emphasize the differences among us.

As the rabbi of the Western Wall, it is my job and my obligation to make sure this does not happen.

The first chief rabbi of the Land of Israel, Rabbi Avraham Yitzchak HaCohen Kook, of blessed memory, said, “The pure righteous do not complain about evil but add righteousness, do not complain about heresy but add faith, do not complain about ignorance but add wisdom.”

While facing the repeated attempts to turn the Western Wall, the unifying heart of the Jewish nation, into an arena of public dispute, we will continue to work toward bringing millions of students, soldiers, tourists and worshipers to the Western Wall every year, out of respect and love for each one of them.

And both the observant and the secular, both Jews and non-Jews, will continue to pray at the Western Wall Plaza side by side with mutual respect and brotherhood, as is written: “For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples.”

And with God’s help, when the fire of dispute and baseless hatred die out, all will find their place here.

The message could not be clearer.

Alastair will you please explain to me why the presence of Jews and their communities ipso facto and a priori negates a two-state solution?

There are Arabs living in Israel, so why cannot Jews live in a future "Palestine" (or "Hammastan" or whatever gets elected or established)? How does the existence of the Jewish communities in Judea and Samaria given that they occupy a minuscule part of that territory according to you prevent peace?

If the charge is that the Jews would not allow/permit or would interfere in such a political development, would not the expectation be that Arabs would do (and perhaps already are) the same and attempt to subvert the state of Israel?

If that is what you believe does that not imply that if Jews are not to be allowed to live in a future Palestinian State, then Arabs cannot similarly be allowed to live in Israel?

Is this logic ethical and moral? If not, why is it applied by you to only one side in the conflict?

Rather than resort to Ad Homs Viv Henshall , try reading the title of the blog .
It's specifically concerns Zionist organisations dealing with clearly biased NGOs .
There are plenty of threads directly relating to the I/P conflict .
This is not one such thread .

Advsr - I certainly agree that Jews and Jewish Israelis should be permitted to live in a future Palestine state. And they should live free from persecution and equal to other citizens.

I disagree with your assessment of the settlements. They do not constitute a 'minuscule part of that territory'

60% of the West Bank is area C - under full control of Israel, Area b (21% of the land) is under Israeli military control and the rest - divided, surrounded and non contiguous is under Palestinian control.
Then there are the Israeli only roads, road blocks, the Wall. So actually the settlements make life for the Palestinians incredibly difficult and unfair.
And of course Israel raids any part of the West Bank it chooses and confiscates, assassinates and kidnaps Palestinians with impunity.

In fact the whole occupation (It’s an occupation not a conflict) is stunting the progress and lives of millions of people.

Per NGO Monitor:

Oxfam’s statements on the Palestinian-Israeli conflict consistently erase all complexity and blame Israel exclusively for the situation. Oxfam has been extremely critical of Israeli actions in this context, especially regarding the three-week 2008-2009 Gaza War, during which Oxfam published 10 statements accusing Israel falsely of using “disproportionate force” or “illegal collective punishment.” Oxfam has also consistently campaigned against Israeli policy in Gaza before and after the war, accusing Israel of “collective punishment” and claiming Israeli culpability for an impending “humanitarian disaster,” while failing to mention Hamas war crimes and responsibility for hostilities.

In response to increased cooperation between the EU and Israel, Oxfam called (July 2012) on the EU to sanction Israel with “urgent and concrete measures to push for an immediate end to settlement construction and the unlawful demolition of Palestinian civilian infrastructure” Oxfam also called on the EU (March 2010) to sanction Israel regarding the blockade of Gaza claiming that the blockade constitutes “collective punishment, which is illegal under international law.”
In 2003, Oxfam-Belgium produced a poster of an “Israeli orange” dripping with blood to promote anti-Israel boycotts. The caption read: “Israeli fruits have a bitter taste...reject the occupation of Palestine, don't buy Israeli fruits and vegetables.”

So yes the BoD should seriously reconsider its link up with Oxfam.

Harvey, I did read the title of the blog. What is absurd is the statement regarding Oxfam's supposed 'anti israel activity'

Oxfam works in 55 countries and works with poverty relief, emergency relief, gender equality . . . . and loads more. Their primary focus is poverty relief. And the Palestinians, due to the occupation, are poor.

We all know that Hoffman's only tactic is to try and discredit any organisation that supports the rights of Palestinians. It's pitiful really.

Viv quoting me 21% is disingenuous it may be 21% now because the Army are obliged to control the roads to prevent Jewish women and children being shot to death - it was not always the case was it?
There is no Wall there is a security barrier which has saved the lives of countless people but obviously that does not interest you. The Israel Supreme Court has ruled in a number of cases that the barrier has to be shifted where it impacts adversely on the Palestinians - that obviously does not interest you either.
I suggest to you that if the day were to come that the Palestinians controlled Judea and Samaria the area covered by the Jewish communities themselves would be and is miniscule as you would see from any map.
I know you probably wouldn't mind Jews living in the future State of Palestine it is a pity however that the Arabs who actually live there do not share your view.
By the way let's be honest shall we the only thing preventing a resolution of this matter is continued failure by the Arabs to accept a sovereign independent Jewish presence in what was the Palestine Mandate and which was the case long before there were any settlements.

Oxfam does not support the rights of Palestinians it is anti-Israel - not the same thing.

It's actually more than 21% it's more like 80% of the West Bank is under complete control by Israel or under Military control by Israel. That's an occupation.

The "rabbi" of the wall is in the pay of whom and belongs to which strand of Judaism?

Yeshayahu 66.

כֹּ֚ה אָמַ֣ר יְהוָ֔ה הַשָּׁמַ֣יִם כִּסְאִ֔י וְהָאָ֖רֶץ הֲדֹ֣ם רַגְלָ֑י אֵי־ זֶ֥ה בַ֙יִת֙ אֲשֶׁ֣ר תִּבְנוּ־ לִ֔י וְאֵי־ זֶ֥ה מָקֹ֖ום מְנוּחָתִֽי׃ וְאֶת־ כָּל־ 2 אֵ֙לֶּה֙ יָדִ֣י עָשָׂ֔תָה וַיִּהְי֥וּ כָל־ אֵ֖לֶּה נְאֻם־ יְהוָ֑ה וְאֶל־ זֶ֣ה אַבִּ֔יט אֶל־ עָנִי֙ וּנְכֵה־ ר֔וּחַ וְחָרֵ֖ד עַל־ דְּבָרִֽי׃ 3 שֹׁוחֵ֨ט הַשֹּׁ֜ור מַכֵּה־ אִ֗ישׁ זֹובֵ֤חַ הַשֶּׂה֙ עֹ֣רֵֽף כֶּ֔לֶב מַעֲלֵ֤ה מִנְחָה֙ דַּם־ חֲזִ֔יר מַזְכִּ֥יר לְבֹנָ֖ה מְבָ֣רֵֽךְ אָ֑וֶן גַּם־ הֵ֗מָּה בָּֽחֲרוּ֙ בְּדַרְכֵיהֶ֔ם וּבְשִׁקּוּצֵיהֶ֖ם נַפְשָׁ֥ם חָפֵֽצָה׃ 4 גַּם־ אֲנִ֞י אֶבְחַ֣ר בְּתַעֲלֻלֵיהֶ֗ם וּמְגֽוּרֹתָם֙ אָבִ֣יא לָהֶ֔ם יַ֤עַן קָרָ֙אתִי֙ וְאֵ֣ין עֹונֶ֔ה דִּבַּ֖רְתִּי וְלֹ֣א שָׁמֵ֑עוּ וַיַּעֲשׂ֤וּ הָרַע֙ בְּעֵינַ֔י וּבַאֲשֶׁ֥ר לֹֽא־ חָפַ֖צְתִּי בָּחָֽרוּ׃

5 שִׁמְעוּ֙ דְּבַר־ יְהוָ֔ה הַחֲרֵדִ֖ים אֶל־ דְּבָרֹ֑ו אָמְרוּ֩ אֲחֵיכֶ֨ם שֹׂנְאֵיכֶ֜ם מְנַדֵּיכֶ֗ם לְמַ֤עַן שְׁמִי֙ יִכְבַּ֣ד יְהוָ֔ה וְנִרְאֶ֥ה בְשִׂמְחַתְכֶ֖ם וְהֵ֥ם יֵבֹֽשׁוּ׃ 6 קֹ֤ול שָׁאֹון֙ מֵעִ֔יר קֹ֖ול מֵֽהֵיכָ֑ל קֹ֣ול יְהוָ֔ה מְשַׁלֵּ֥ם גְּמ֖וּל לְאֹיְבָֽיו׃

The greatest creators of shinat chinam among Jews are the Orthodox, ultranatiionalists and their apologists.

Viv Hanshall
Again you are attempting to derail the thread .
I've posted links highlighting the partisan stance adopted by Oxfam .
This includes failing to fully acknowledge and condemn Palestinian terrorist attacks on Israeli citizens especially during the Second Intifada .
This is the theme of the thread and what is under discussion .

No Harvey, you posted a couple of opnions and blogs. Which do not offer any conclusive evidence of anything.

What is under discussion is the daft claim that 'Oxfam has a history of anti-Israel activity'

Viv, Harvey drives for a living by the way. He's a taxi driver.

Oh, right. I understand.

If you scroll down here:

http://www.thejc.com/blogs/jonathan-hoffman/article-about-sodastream-bri...

you'll see a picture of him standing shoulder to shoulder with the EDL.

He's the short one on the left.

Millis you obviously have no idea what are talking about and your agenda obviously is just to perpetuate needless controversy. If you are not prepared to accept what the Rabbi says including the fact that $2 million is provided for the Reform movement to have their own section at the Western Wall for which you quote something you should be quoting to Anat Hoffman for it is she who is the one causing baseless hatred then I have no time for you.

EDL? You mean the English Defence League? Harvey stands alongside members of that group?

I'm not sure which I would rather my son NOT DO - stand with the EDL or become a taxi driver.

;)

And I ask you again, Advis3r, who pays the "rabbi" of the wall? Who appointed him to the exulted position? And who gave a minority sect in Judaism, the Orthodox, the right to determine for the majority where they can or cannot pray and in which manner?
The quicker this sect and their apologists have their right to abuse power taken away, the quicker baseless hatred will end.

Better a taxi driver than whatever you are suzanna.
And Ms Henshall why demean yourself by parrotting the demented suzanna. there are numerous photos of Obama shaking hands with such luminaries as Ghadafi but no one would say he was a Ghadafi supporter. The EDL turned up uninvited to demonstrations and tried to make out they were on the side of Israel. If I were you I would be more concerned with the people supporting BDS - you know like the Rev Sizer who carries links to anti-Semitic websites on his own website.
Israel controls Judea and Samaria at the moment because until there is a negotiated settlement under International Law it has every right to do so.

Synopsis Of Law Governing Belligerent Occupation
Legality of the war is irrelevant to effectiveness of the governing law
Legality of conduct during occupation must be distinguished from legality of the occupation (jus ad bellum v. jus in bello).
Neither occupation nor the law of war operate to transfer sovereignty over the territory occupied
The occupant must continue orderly government and may exercise control over and utilize the resources of the country for that purpose and to meet his own military needs
The occupant has limited legislative powers and may not make permanent changes in fundamental institutions
When possible the occupant must utilize already existing local laws
Privately owned war munitions may be seized without limit of occasion or quantity but subject to restoration and payment of compensation at war's end
Services may be requisitioned but workers cannot be forced to operate against their country, and are limited to providing local needs. They cannot be used for the general benefit of the occupier's homeland
The occupier may collect funds to pay for occupation and local administration
Public immovable property of a military character may be damaged or destroyed. The occupier acts as a usufruct of other public immovables
Public movable property subject to military uses (e.g. war munitions, transport) may be seized without compensation. Other public movables such as art and objects of national patrimony are treated as private property
The occupier may collect state debts but need not pay debts owed by the prior state. Any interference with currency must be justified by good economic order of the territory

Sources, Stone, Oppenheim, FM 27-10, British Manual Part III, Hague Convention IV, 1907, Articles 46-56, Geneva Civilians Convention, 1949, Protocol I to Geneva Conventions.

But you are choosing to change the topic. I asked you why there should not be Jewish communities in a future Palestinian State and you talk about occupation. Unfortunately this is par for the course when trying to have a discussion with BDS supporters they just run out of arguments and start screaming "Occupation".

Millis you ignoramous Rabbi Rabinovitch was appointed to the position of Rabbi of the Western Wall by former Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin.

Viv
As long as your son doesn't end up a dead beat like you , he will be just fine .

So the state appointed this "rabbi". And Rabin H"YD, appointed him because the Orthodox ran the show then. Time has come for that to end. They are a minority sect in Judaism. They are past their sell-by date and the time is ripe for a separation of state and synagogue. If the Army can stay in its bases, rabbis should stay in their synagogues.

H"YD? This honorific "May Hashem avenge his/her blood" is used for a non-rabbinic general individual who perished as a result of anti-semitism, for example pogroms or the Holocaust. What a piece of work you are you ignoramous.

I know what it means. And it was intentional. Says a huge amount about you that you attack me over it.

I attack what you say because you are an ignoramous with little knowledge of things Jewish but who pretends he does. You use your limited knowledge to try to be provocative and stir up sinat chinam - but that's not new is it Millis?
The correct term is Z"l may his memory be for a blessing. But of course you only use the death of Yitzchak Rabin z"l to stir up hatred - typical of your sort you just hate Orthodox Jews due to your lack of knowledge. By the way I don't hate you I pity you.

For me, Z"L or even ZTZ"L does not go even far enough. HY"D it is. You've done all you can to stir up baseless hatred. It's in your life blood. It's what keeps you going. It burns and eats you from within.

Well Advsr does enjoy a good bicker that is true.

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