Isi Leibler is absolutely correct


By Jonathan Hoffman
February 17, 2011
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COMMENTS

Joe Millis

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 15:50

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-5 points

Why is what Mick Davis says objectionable and his leadership questionable? What he said and what the JC editorial made clear were a clear reflection of the views of the majority of British Jews.
What's objectionable about this?

When we crudely brand lovers of Israel as traitors or fools if they articulate a concern, or when we deny people the right to contribute if they have criticisms of policy, we narrow Israel's support base.
Rather than shrinking the pool of people who will fight Israel's corner, we should be filling it by providing the capacity to advocate and defend - in tandem with the ability to question its direction.

Or this?

The need to engage and retain the commitment of all Jews, particularly young Jews, takes precedence over misplaced fears that debate weakens us and provides ammunition to our enemies.
Ironically, precisely the same argument is sometimes made about "loud, proud, Israel Advocacy"; that it is abused by antisemites and anti-Zionists who go on to attack the "Jewish Lobby". In both cases, my response is the same: we must not allow our enemies to stop us doing what is right, whether that is public support or honest criticism.
Let me be clear about my comments at the LJCC event last year that have created such interest.
My statement that when Israel does good things it is good for me had nothing to do with any concern I might have for how I appear to others as a result of Israel's actions. I could not care less.
Nor does it indicate that I am a cowering diaspora Jew nervous of reaction in London. I am not. Nor did it refer to any actions Israel has ever taken, or may take, to protect its citizens.
I was making the more profound point that Israel lies at the heart of my identity as a Jew. As a Zionist, I believe Israel is a fundamental element in my connection to the Jewish people. I am bound existentially with Israel's actions because they affect me existentially as a Jew.

If what Mick Davis said is offensive and questionable then the attack by someone not living among British Jews is equally offensive and questionable and reeks of double standards.

But I do not find Leibler offensive because I believe in the free market of ideas.


jandrsimonson (not verified)

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 15:57

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-6 points

because I believe in the free market of ideas.

Then I think you may be in the wrong place Joe.

This is more a free market in rabid, often fould mouthed m screeching.

Why does the JC allow it's image to be dragged through the mud by a mere handful of hysterics ?


Watchful Iris (not verified)

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 16:08

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-4 points

Because the Hysteric In Chief has friends in high places and is deemed to be untouchable?


mattpryor

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 16:15

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1 point

Why does the JC allow it's image to be dragged through the mud by a mere handful of hysterics ?

Pot, meet kettle.


Watchful Iris (not verified)

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 16:25

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-4 points

Yoni1

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 16:27

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0 points

"Why does the JC allow it's image to be dragged through the mud by a mere handful of hysterics"

Indeed, why does the JC allow rabid posters like you, who can't even spell, befoul this site?


Watchful Iris (not verified)

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 16:32

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-5 points

Spelling isn't everything. I'm sure Simonson has "other" talents.


Joe Millis

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 16:33

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-5 points

Watchful and Simonson, there is absolutely no reason to stoop to the level of the abusive minority here. I suggest debates be on the subject at hand.


Yoni1

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 16:35

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0 points

"I'm sure Simonson has "other" talents"

Oh yes, we know! So do you. And none of them 'talents' to be proud of.


Joe Millis

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 16:38

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-5 points

See what you have done, Watchful? Now the person as welcome as a bacon sandwich at a Chabad wedding can go ballistic.


mattpryor

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 16:41

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0 points

Millis why don't you just keep your nasty little comments to yourself? I already think you're a fool, why do you feel the need to constantly prove it to me?


Joe Millis

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 16:44

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-5 points

My comments are nasty, Prior? Bit of double standards there, methinks


Joe Millis

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 16:44

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-5 points

Anyway, let's wait for Mr Hoffman.


mattpryor

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 16:49

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-1 points

I have seen you compare a Jew to a Nazi song (you have form on such analogies of course) and now to bacon. What a disgrace you are, and what a hypocrite.


Anonymous

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 17:03

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0 points

This comment by Yoni1 has been moderated


jose (not verified)

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 17:20

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0 points

Why does the JC allow it's image to be dragged through the mud by a mere handful of hysterics ?

Why do you complain, simonsam? This is precisely why you are still there?


Jonathan Hoffman

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 17:40

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0 points

Michelle Huberman and I have a co-signed letter in tomorrow's JC with similar arguments to Isi Leibler's


Yoni1

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 17:43

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0 points

So the moderator has censored my comment, but it's OK for Millis to compare me to a Nazi song?

Absolutely despicable.


Yoni1

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 17:48

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1 point

Some piece of shit is obviously OK with Millis comparing me to a Nazi song, and is giving me negative points. Whoever you are: you are scum.


jose (not verified)

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 17:50

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2 points

Termination of the two Milligramsam's pseudos will end both 'problems'.


Macairt

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 18:52

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2 points

I have absolutely no problem with Jews criticising Israel.

I object when they make out it is terribly brave of them to do so, and that they are running the gauntlet of the tyranny of the majority thereby.

That is what feeds into the discourse of antisemites.

If someone wants to criticise Israel they should have the guts to do so without pre-empting counter-criticism by making out how brave they are and how persecutory is everyone else.


jose (not verified)

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 19:23

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0 points

If someone really wants to look brave, he'd better criticise a dictatorship and from inside, rather than a democracy and outside.

I mean, don't you think?


jandrsimonson (not verified)

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 19:33

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-4 points

"Michelle Huberman and I have a co-signed letter in tomorrow's JC with similar arguments to Isi Leibler's"

The whole world awaits with bated breath.

How are any of us going to sleep tonight in the company of such pregnant anticipation ?

I bet this is going to be one of those letters that transforms live, and alters the course of history.


jandrsimonson (not verified)

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 19:34

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-4 points

lives


jose (not verified)

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 19:54

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1 point

Bah simonsam, your irony is of no interest here.


Yoni1

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 20:04

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1 point

If only 'twere irony, rather than the infantile sniggering which is the only thing he is capable of.


Joe Millis

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 23:13

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-6 points

Simonson, no need for sarcasm. Rejoice only in the fact that leibler's is a minority view among Jews who live in Britain.


amber

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 23:30

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1 point

Millis - your siding with the anti-Semites is a disgrace.


amber

Thu, 02/17/2011 - 23:31

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1 point

Macairt - well said. Such "bravery" is a sick joke.


Yoni1

Fri, 02/18/2011 - 00:31

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1 point

What do you expect, Amber, from a piece of shit who compares a Jew to a Nazi song?


jose (not verified)

Fri, 02/18/2011 - 05:29

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1 point

As usual, Isi Leibler hit right on the nail. The role of the Diaspora is to criticise evenly everyone, that is much more the big, bloody aggressive dictatorships than the tiny democracy.
Davis criticised Israel? Very well! When did he criticised the PA, lastly? Did he criticised the fact that they never made any concession and always asked for Israel to do them before it even accepted to sit at the negotiation table?


jandrsimonson (not verified)

Fri, 02/18/2011 - 06:15

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-1 points

Indeed Joe. May I also rejoice in the fact that JoseAnth has finally figured that there is no " c " in " negotiations " ?


jose (not verified)

Fri, 02/18/2011 - 06:18

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1 point

JoseAnth

Where is JoseAnth, simonsam? Show us your paranoia again!


jose (not verified)

Fri, 02/18/2011 - 06:19

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1 point

If someone really wants to look brave, he'd better criticise a dictatorship and from inside, rather than a democracy from outside.
I mean, don't you think?


jose (not verified)

Fri, 02/18/2011 - 08:24

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0 points

If someone really wants to look brave, he'd better criticise a dictatorship and from inside, rather than a democracy from outside.

I mean, don't you think?


Yoni1

Fri, 02/18/2011 - 08:42

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1 point

"May I also rejoice in the fact that JoseAnth has finally figured that there is no "c" in "negotiations"? "

From the poison pen of the illiterate tosser who - unlike Jose - is a native English speaker but still doesn't understand the function of apostrophes, and wrote this:

"Why does the JC allow it's image"


jandrsimonson (not verified)

Fri, 02/18/2011 - 13:03

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-3 points

Gulp Yonathan you are being mean to me.


jose (not verified)

Fri, 02/18/2011 - 13:39

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2 points

Gulp Yonathan you are being mean to me.

Worse thing is that even I can spot your errors! And of course, I would love to see you writing French.


Yvetta

Fri, 02/18/2011 - 13:51

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3 points

We need a Leibler clone or two to lead Anglo-Jewry, whose leaders (JH is an exception) are by and large a lily-livered lot.


Joe Millis

Fri, 02/18/2011 - 13:54

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-3 points

Problem is, Yvetta, he'd have no one to lead as is views are not in tune with the majority of British Jews. Of course, being a tolerant and pluralistic community, we are quite happy to hear other views from afar, however irrelevant they are.


Yoni1

Fri, 02/18/2011 - 13:58

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-1 points

"he'd have no one to lead as is views are not in tune with the majority of British Jews"

Pure speculation. You are obviously another swollen-headed idiot like Simonson who thinks all Jews must think like him.


Yvetta

Fri, 02/18/2011 - 13:59

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-1 points

I'll settle for a few JH clones, Joe!


Watchful Iris (not verified)

Fri, 02/18/2011 - 20:07

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1 point

It's a relief to see that Yvetta still has the hots for Jonathan.I can't wait to see " the love in on Monmouth Street " on Youtube.

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