Hamas escalates violence against Israel

Well it would seem Hoff is reinventing himself as a kind of tenth rate news agency, specialising in telling us what we already know.

All I can say is the sooner the Palestinians have access to the ICC the better.Good luck at the UN Abu Mazen.

All I can say is the sooner the Palestinians have access to the ICC the better

Works both ways firing rockets into Israel is a war crime - defending yourself against them is not.

It's election time so it's time to massacre Palestinians again it seems.

You forgoet to mention the 13 year old boy, Hamad Younis Abu Daqqa, killed last Thursday by Israel.

Which was before the incident you quote.

And you forget to mention the military 'incursion' by Israel into Gaza last week - again before the incident you mention.

It is Hamas which is seeking an escalation and the sole responsibility for this is Hamas. Hamas is clearly trying to drag Israel into a diplomatically costly war like Cast Lead.......

Not according to Mark Regev . . .

http://wn.com/Who_broke_the_truce?_Israel_or_hamas_The_truth_about_Israe...

http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2009/01/23/class-interview-mark-regev-on...

firing rockets is legitimate and not a war crime for the Palestinians it only becomes criminal when the rockets don't hit legitimate targets.The problem is Palestinians need to make sure that its IDF that gets attacked and not ordinary Ehud and his weans in Sderot.Its hard for me to condemn Palestinians when the IDF shells civilians,occupies their country makes one part effectively an open prison and the other part a settlers paradise.

The reason the Israelis are so against the status upgrade at the UN for Palestine is exactly what you mention Alistair. Israel knows that the Palestinians would then have access to the ICC and then what everyone knows as being a nasty, malign, cruel occupation will be proved to be so by law.

suzanna: The reason the Israelis are so against the status upgrade at the UN for Palestine is exactly what you mention Alistair …

The reason the non-permanent members of the un security council are so against the status upgrade at the UN for Palestine is that the security council's primary duty is to preserve peace … and there is no way those members will approve the creation of a state whose founding purpose is to take over another country, and whose creation will inevitably, sooner or later, lead to another war, probably involving the whole region

suzanna: It's election time so it's time to massacre Palestinians again it seems.

that's a thoroughly racist lie against the israelis palestinians regularly fire shells at purely civilian targets in israel, trying to kill as many innocent civilians as possible israel responds by trying to kill as few innocent civilians as possible

suzanna: You forgoet to mention the 13 year old boy, Hamad Younis Abu Daqqa, killed last Thursday by Israel.

killed by accident while returning fire at palestinian paramilitaries deliberately trying to kill israeli soldiers

We're playing that game again, Happy. It's like you are following in the keyboard tappings of one Blacklisted Dictator fellow. Are you, in any way, related?

Oh don't be so ridiculous - with your silly little smiling faces and fish.
Of course the Israelis fire missiles into civilian areas - there are more examples then there is space to mention them.
And yes, yes, of course the Israelis killed the boy by accident. It's always an accident - the hundreds of dead children, the phosphorous, the bullet in the head, the bulldozer crushing to death, the blindfolded old men on Facebook; the pouting, gormless soldier, the entire family killed by a tank shell - it's always a bloody 'accident'.

Another 'accident'?

On Tuesday 9th October, Jewish settlers destroyed over 120 olive trees on private Palestinian land in Nablus. Before that "on Sunday, a group of settlers attacked Palestinian farmers in the Ramallah town of Beitillu, burning dozens of olive trees, while settlers uprooted around 40 olive trees in the nearby Ramallah village of Ras Karkar. On Friday, settlers destroyed 100 newly-planted olive saplings and at least 60 vine trees on private Palestinian land in Al-Khader village near Bethlehem." On Wednesday 10th October, Israeli settlers destroyed over 250 olive trees in a Ramallah village.

On Tuesday 9th October, Jewish settlers destroyed over 120 olive trees on private Palestinian land in Nablus. Before that "on Sunday, a group of settlers attacked Palestinian farmers in the Ramallah town of Beitillu, burning dozens of olive trees, while settlers uprooted around 40 olive trees in the nearby Ramallah village of Ras Karkar. On Friday, settlers destroyed 100 newly-planted olive saplings and at least 60 vine trees on private Palestinian land in Al-Khader village near Bethlehem." On Wednesday 10th October, Israeli settlers destroyed over 250 olive trees in a Ramallah village

Please provide an independent source (and I don't mean B'tselem) for these allegations together with photographic evidence of the actual perpetrators Otherwise withdraw your baseless allegations. Although on your past record where you have shown to be wrong you never have apologized.

On the other hand these are not "Accidents" are they?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israe...

but deliberate and malicious attempts to kill maim and terrorize Israeli civilians. Whatever Israel does in retaliation is legal - if your terrorist thug buddies choose to fire their rockets from populated areas criminally using the local population as human shields for their war crimes - International Law entitles Israel to fire back at the source - it is therefore your terrorist thug buddies who bear the responsibility for civilian casualties but they of course have useful misguided and amoral idiots like your good-self to point the finger at Israel.

The IDF may or may not be " the most moral army in the world " but it is certainly the most " accident " prone.

there is plenty of evidence - including from B'tselem.

Just look for it.

Mary in Brighton: The IDF may or may not be " the most moral army in the world " but it is certainly the most " accident " prone.

israel is the only country fighting an enemy that deliberately puts its own civilians (including children) at risk

suzanna: Of course the Israelis fire missiles into civilian areas - there are more examples then there is space to mention them.
And yes, yes, of course the Israelis killed the boy by accident. It's always an accident - …

suzanna: … the hundreds of dead children, the phosphorous, the bullet in the head, the bulldozer crushing to death, the blindfolded old men on Facebook; the pouting, gormless soldier, the entire family killed by a tank shell - it's always a bloody 'accident'.

suzanna: It's election time so it's time to massacre Palestinians again it seems.

that's a thoroughly racist lie against the israelis palestinians regularly fire shells at purely civilian targets in israel, trying to kill as many innocent civilians as possible israel responds by trying to kill as few innocent civilians as possible

Jose - don't be so shrill.

I see you are repeating the same old excuses employed by the Judeo fascist:
'Human shield', 'responsible for (their own) civilian deaths'.
Even though those who fired the missile, pulled the trigger, drove the bulldozer, executed the protestor, killed the child were . . . wait for it . . . Israelis!

The Israelis ALWAYS target civilians.

Ask those on the Mavi Marmara.

The Israelis ALWAYS fire into civilian areas

Ask Ezzeldeen Abu al-Aish

The gormless soldier mocking blindfolded Palestinians?

Ask Eden Aberjil

As for the targetted children - the list is virtually endless.

Would you care to tell us about the use of white phosphorous in densely populated urban areas happy ? I agree with you that Israel doesn't " target " civilians, in the sense that they don't institutionally say " ok boys let's zap some civilians." But the above and other examples raise quite a strong suspicion of sublime indifference would you not say? And of course there is a wealth of testimony by Breaking the Silence veterans and in the Goldstone report concerning the IDF use of civilians, usually women and kids as human shields.

I am not saying the IDF is worse than most armies, but nor are they any better than most. An army is not a moral enterprise it is a killing machine.There is no such thing as a moral army. Why pretend otherwise ? Your ranting just makes you come over as ridiculous.And that is before we even get to those excrutiatingly embarrassing smileys, and your playing peek a boo on a blog thread.

suzanna: The gormless soldier mocking blindfolded Palestinians?
Ask Eden Aberjil

that's deplorable, and israel court-martials such behaviour, but it has nothing to do with whether israel targets civilians

suzanna: The Israelis ALWAYS target civilians.
Ask those on the Mavi Marmara.

suzanna: The Israelis ALWAYS fire into civilian areas
Ask Ezzeldeen Abu al-Aish.

suzanna: The Israelis ALWAYS target civilians.
…
The Israelis ALWAYS fire into civilian areas

suzanna: It's election time so it's time to massacre Palestinians again it seems.

that's a thoroughly racist lie against the israelis palestinians regularly fire shells at purely civilian targets in israel, trying to kill as many innocent civilians as possible israel responds by trying to kill as few innocent civilians as possible

It begins with a Y and ends with an N

suzanna you just don't post baseless trash and then tell me to go and find it. You call out Mr Hoffman because he does not provide a link so I am calling you out. B'tselem are funded by anti-Israel organisations and have an agenda. I would't trust any of their reports since they have been caught out in lies so many times it is legend.

Israel does not target civilians and you are unable to prove otherwise. If they were how come they treat not only Palestinan civilians but terrorist casualties in Israeli hospitals? Obviously your terrorist buddies do not go around wearing signs saying terrorist here please target me. They dress in civilian clothing and use innocent bystanders as human shields. They are therefore responsible for regrettable and unintended civilian deaths and casualties not Israel.

On the hand this guy has got it:

I am reading a book called The Boy, in which Israeli historian Dan Porat unravels the story around perhaps the most powerful image of the Holocaust. It is the image of a Jewish boy, with his hands up, outside the Warsaw Ghetto.

This morning, Gaza terrorists again scheduled their rocket fire to coincide with the time that children, just like the one in that photograph, are taken to school. It is only a combination of Israel’s civil defence infastructure, cancelled school days, and sheer luck that prevent these terrorists from successfully killing and maiming on the scale they dream of.

Israel has friends in many places. Yet as the south is bombarded, the world is largely silent, save the clearing of a few throats in preparation for a fresh round of finger-wagging ‘naughty naughties’ to be directed at Israel when it acts to defend itself against this menace.

It is the very possibility of defence that is the most significant difference between the era in which the photograph was taken, and now. Israel’s regional enemies are plentiful, murderous and determined. Many of Israel’s obsessive critics around the world are driven by misunderstandings, prejudice and the glow that comes from bullying consensus.

Yet the Jewish people now have a state and an army. The world can criticise both all it likes, they keep photographs like this one where they should be – in the past.

http://www.oyvagoy.com/2012/11/11/then-and-now/

And Fake Zionist should be aware that I take as much notice of his pathetic attempts at argument as I do of B'tselem. I am sure if you ask nicely Millis will help you out.

And Mary as to accident prone ask NATO how many Afghans and Pakistanis they have accidentally killed or the Russians (http://www.sptimesrussia.com/index.php?action_id=2&story_id=30874) or the French http://www.france24.com/en/20100429-afghanistan-french-army-admits-accid...
let alone the deliberate killing of over 30,000 Syrians by their own Government - yet where is the outrage the mass demonstrations and marches or even the condemnation. What used to be known as "The left" is totally silent it seems for some only too well understood reason only the Jewish State interests them as your postings testify.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4Gd-IwNhSc0/UKIUnGaqHgI/AAAAAAAA8so/JWRmjkyj8o...?
says it all

http://www.btselem.org/press_releases/20120912_violent_arrest_in_hebron

Oh, more Judeo Facist smoke screen:
'...NATO how many Afghans and Pakistanis they have accidentally killed or the Russians . . .'
' . . .deliberate killing of over 30,000 Syrians by their own Government . . . '

We aint talking about Syria and Pakistan. We are talking about Israel killing civilians and children. And about Israeli soldiers using human shields.

Yes Viv it also happens in the UK - http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jul/15/police-accused-kidnap-private-p... so what? You are going to tar a whole country with the the criminal actions of two soldiers?
So what would you call holding Israel to a standard to which you do not even hold your own country?

"And Fake Zionist should be aware that I take as much notice of his pathetic attempts at argument as I do of B'tselem"

Relax Jose I don't think about your drivel from one millenium to the next.

' . . so what? You are going to tar a whole country with the the criminal actions of two soldiers?'

Er, that's what you do to Palestinians. You refer to them only as 'terrorists', 'thugs' or deserving of their own deaths.

Real Real Zionist: I agree with you that Israel doesn't " target " civilians, in the sense that they don't institutionally say " ok boys let's zap some civilians." But the above and other examples raise quite a strong suspicion of sublime indifference would you not say?

Real Real Zionist: And of course there is a wealth of testimony by Breaking the Silence veterans and in the Goldstone report concerning the IDF use of civilians, usually women and kids as human shields.

Real Real Zionist: Would you care to tell us about the use of white phosphorous in densely populated urban areas happy ?

certainly: white phosphorus (adjectives: phosphorous, phosphoric ) is not prohibited under international law although not a weapon, against persons or otherwise (it is designed to explode in mid-air and create a (literal) smoke-screen), its use in or near civilians is governed by much the same law as actual weapons the israelis have investigated allegations of breach of international law by use of phosphorus, and i believe at least one commander has been court-martialled as a result

Real Real Zionist: I am not saying the IDF is worse than most armies, but nor are they any better than most. An army is not a moral enterprise it is a killing machine.There is no such thing as a moral army. Why pretend otherwise ? Your ranting just makes you come over as ridiculous.

Jose - another 'accident'

http://www.btselem.org/beating_and_abuse/20120913_assault_on_jornalists_...

suzanna I am talking about NATO and whatever else I want to talk about.
The thread starts with Hamas a proscribed terrorist organisation. Let's hear your apology for them firing rockets at innocent civilians not your "Smokescreen" and unsubstantiated allegations of olive tree destruction as if somehow that excuses war crimes.
If you would but use the intelligence you hopefully were born with you may figure out why I mention other conflicts in the world which get little or no mention whatsoever or elicit the spotlight and harsh condemnations Israel regularly receives for actions which when taken by other nations seem perfectly acceptable.
For example nine violent people were killed on the terrorist organised ship that tried to run the UN sanctioned legal Israeli blockade of Gaza and the papers were full with it for days and days.I don't remember any UN Commission being set up when 27 protestors were shot in Northern Ireland in 1972 or when NATO killed 30 innocent civilians in Afghanistan.

suzanna please show me where I have called the Palestinians as a whole terrorists or thugs are you in fact capable of telling the truth?
Yet by bringing up isolated incidents here or there which occur in every country in the world you make out that all Israelis are the same.

Happygoldfishes's if I were someone in your life I would be very concerned about your emotional health.

masked thugs in uniform:

http://www.btselem.org/video/dog2012

'suzanna please show me where I have called the Palestinians as a whole terrorists or thugs are you in fact capable of telling the truth?'

Right, so the Palestinians are not 'terrorists' then?
That's what I say. They are defending their lives and their homes. They have the right of self defence.

Advsr3, you accuse Suzanna of lying and you claim that 'Palestinians as a whole (are not)terrorists or thugs'.
So which are the 'terrorist' in your view and which are not?
And if 'as a whole' they are not 'terrorists' why does Israel continue to collectively punish millions of Palestinians?

Happygoldfishes's if I were someone in your life I would be very concerned about your emotional health.

Yeah well that's it for me.When he/she finally tips over the edge no one is going to say I played any part in bringing it about.

Oh, another fib . . .
'For example nine violent people were killed on the terrorist organised ship that tried to run the UN sanctioned legal Israeli blockade'

Nine civilans were shot multiple times in the middle of the night in international waters.

Cengiz Alquyz, Aged 42: Four gunshot wounds: in the back of the head, in the face, back and left leg
Shot from behind

Sounds like he was executed.

Viv let's see Hamas are proscribed by the EU as a terrorist organisation as are Islamic Jihad that good enough for you?

israel does not continually collectively punish millions of Palestinians that's what you call it. Before Arafat came along Palestinians whether from the "West Bank" or Gaza were working in Israel without any problems. Then Arafat decided that making peace with Israel would mean that he would have to give up his intention of destroying Israel so he went in for suicide bombing on a grand scale. His cohorts not only sent impressionable young men they also sent invalids pregnant women and children with bombs strapped to their bodies to kill innocent men women and children in Israel. Following the loss of over a thousand civilians as a precaution since suicide bombers do not wear labels telling you that they are what they are Israel decided to restrict the movement of innocent civilians Jews and Arabs - it happens all over the world in Iraq for example but when Israel does it it's called collective punishment. Do you call it collective punishment when you have to queue for hours at Heathrow or Manchester or any other International Airport in the world to pass through a security check which is sometimes humiliating in the extreme because a bunch of terrorist thugs nearly blew up a plane or do you call it a wise precaution?

I think queuing up at an airport and being denied the right to travel, trade, or of movement and to be forced to live behind a huge wall and have your homes systematically destroyed are two different things.

There is no equivalent to Gaza or the West Bank anywhere else in the world.

As there is no equivalent to the anti-Semitic terrorist group known as Hamas which is sworn to the destruction of Israel and which has no qualms as to how it carries out its threat or who gets killed or injured in the process and you support them - what does that say about you?

BTW there is no huge wall only the wall in your mind which prevents you from seeing the truth.

Oh and as for destroying homes Israel would have a lot to learn from Hamas on that score.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/9080936

They do it in S Africa too
http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/SAfrica-police-destroy-illegal-homes...

But that's o.k. only when Israel enforces planning law is it called illegal.

Assaults on journalists?

http://cpj.org/2012/02/attacks-on-the-press-in-2011-south-africa.php

Obviously they didn't happen in Israel so suzanna doesn't care. She is focussed. Some people would use another word.

So if there is no Hamas in the West Bank why does Israel continue its policy of occupation?

You can't always blame the bogey man Hamas.

And don't make comparisons between Jamaica and S Africa. The homes and livelihoods demolished in the West bank and Jerusalem are exclusively Palestinian. Palestinians are denied building permits. You know that - the rest of the world knows that.
.

but we are NOT talking about S Africa we are talking about Israel!
Stop putting up smokescreens.

I was opposed to Apartheid in S Africa as I am opposed to apartheid in Israel.

Suzanna - if I were you I would stop your discourse with the anonymous poster Advsr3. I tend not to use the term but he does have facist views. Those people are best ignored.

I think you have a point there Viv. Best ignore the Judeo facists.

Viv tell me about my fascist views? Or is it rather that you really are unable to address the points I make so to hide your inadequacies you term my views fascist. By the way I am not anonymous you can see my background if you click on my user name.

suzanna I point out to you that what you complain about that goes on in Israel occurs the whole world over and you call call that a smokescreen. The article about South Africa is current not history. Israel destroys homes that are built illegally - it is done all over the world but curiously you only complain about Israel. As i said some people would use another word.

Yet this blog addresses Hamas rocket attacks on innocent Israeli civilians and you go one about olive trees - but that's not a smokescreen?

And now you go on about housing permits:
Even Palestinian officials contradict your claims, and admit that Palestinians can build, both with and without permits. For example, Khalil Tufakji, the leading Palestinian building and demography expert, and obviously no friend of Israel, stated on CNN that:
We can build inside Jerusalem, legal, illegal -- rebuild a house, whatever, we can do. Maybe we lose ten houses, but in the end we build 40 more houses in East Jerusalem. (CNN, Sept. 19, 1998)
That was true then and is true today also - I can take pictures on my way in to work and post them on youtube if you want.
After 2001, permits continued to be freely issued in eastern Jerusalem, with over 100 permits per year issued from 2002 through 2005.
A separate study by Israel Kimhi, former Municipal City Planner for Jerusalem, found that between 1971 and 1994 "the Jerusalem Municipality granted permits for 9 million square meters of built area for residential purposes, 12% (1.1 million sq.m.) to the Arab sector" ("Arab Building in Jerusalem: 1967-1997," pg. 37). Since the density of apartments in the Arab sector, excluding the old city's Muslim Quarter, is 1.9 units per dunam, one can extrapolate that permits granted in those years covered roughly 2090 units.
Not only are permits issued to eastern Jerusalem, but, a study by Justus Reid Weiner of the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs notes, "the percentage of applications that result in the issuance of a building permit is virtually identical in Arab and Jewish neighborhoods" of Jerusalem. Furthermore, the study shows, the city has "authorize[d] the issuance of in excess of 33,000 permits for new housing units in the Arab sector," suggesting that the number of permits issued to the Arab sector could be much higher if only more individuals from that sector would apply for permits. (Or as Weiner puts it: "based on the limited number of application for building permits in the recent years, the Arab residents of the City have not taken full advantage of the potential that exists.")
But you aren't interested in facts are you suzanna? It's all fascist propaganda.

Well Viv please elucidate what views of mine are fascist? You like suzanna make allegations - but are not prepared to back them up with facts. Why am I not surprised?