Child Abuse Palestinian Style

yyyyyyyaaaaaawwwwwnnnnn

When were you last in Nabi Saleh goldfish ?

"The Palestinians select and dress their children to look like regular blond European and American girls" Palestinian's select their children? And how by your reckoning should a Palestinian child look ?Burka from head to toe?Racist! The regular demonstration at an-Nabi Salih in the occupied West Bank is always covered by cameras,why would the cameras not want to document a little girl getting tore into soldiers of the occupying forces? You probably do Israel more harm than good Mr Hoffman,your head is in the clouds Mr Hoffman hinting that a highly trained IDF soldier might hit a little girl for provoking him ,even worse hinting that the people with the cameras expect violence toward children from soldiers.

Could some one tell me how its clear that this was a set up because it looks very plausible that it may not have been set up ?

Any Zionist with a pound of sense would focus on how the soldier did not react rather than might have done.

Real Real Zionist: yyyyyyyaaaaaawwwwwnnnnn

Real Real Zionist: When were you last in Nabi Saleh goldfish ?

rrz doesn't seem interested that there are foreign tv crews whose presence is to make an anti-israeli film of an incident which has clearly been set up solely to be filmed

I wish I could have selected my kids.

No answer came the loud reply. BTW happy there are more " lies " to read on your favourite site.

What with foreign TV crews and an occupying foreign army, it sounds like a tough place.

Interestingly enough zaheeryin the IDF allows foreign film crews almost unlimited access the usual case with someone wishing to hide something?

BTW the Jews are not "foreign" to Judea and Samaria. The word Jew derives from Judea long before it was ever called Palestine by the Romans - just a fact for you to consider.

Israelis are foreigners in the west bank.

Jews however are not dummy!

For sure it was set up. The question is: by whom?

Exactly.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4301487,00.html
explains the story behind the latest video making the rounds online. We’ve seen this before. The junior jihadis should be home doing their homework . . .

A senior IDF source told Ynet that intelligence indicates that pro-Palestinian activists pay Palestinian children from Nabi Salih and the nearby villages to confront the soldiers.

The weekly protests in the areas used to involve hundreds of people, but over time the numbers have dwindled to just a few dozens. According to the officers, the majority of protesters are foreign pro-Palestinian activists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ax-Jk2iJL0k

Ynet - now there's a reliable source…

So Jonathan, your vision for Israel / Palestine is what?

joe galloway millis now there's a reliable source!

So Viv Hanshall your vision for Israel/Palestine is what?

I agree with Alistair. Your comment is unsavoury - to say the least

'The Palestinians select and dress their children to look like regular blond European and American girls'

'Select and dress' what exactly do you mean by that?

The Palestinians are just regular people. This is the point you refuse to concede. You wish to continue to demonise and dehumanise them

My vision is simple. End the occupation. Stop expanding the settlements immediately. Give the Palestinians the West Bank and Gaza. East Jerusalem becomes the capital of Palestine. The settlements can be negotiated with the proviso that there are either land swaps or the settlers become Palestinian citizens. Palestine will be contiguous, free of the Israeli military and at will to trade and interact with the rest of the world.
The Palestinians recognise Israel and vice versa.
Israel has enough weapons and military resources to defend itself should - and it is exceptionally unlikely - the Palestinians want to cause any trouble for Israel.
I am absolutely certain that a free Palestine will flourish and will benefit Israel in terms of its international image and in terms of its democracy and stability. The alternative is the continued slide into apartheid and pariah status.
It is the right thing to do for Israel and it is the fair thing to do for the Palestinians.

Viv are you as naive as you make out or do you just pretend to be so?

I have no doubt that most Palestinians are regular people but they are not the ones doing this:
http://palestinenote.com/cs/media/p/6835.aspx

They took it down - obviously not to their liking but you can see it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TJu4T__BDLU#t=0s

Ha, ha, Advis3r. But I've never quoted self-publicist Gorgeous George. he's as unreliable as Arutz 7.

How lovely Viv - just a few questions to be getting on with:
The "Right of Return" which the Palestinians say is a red line - how would you deal with that?
Where will you split Jerusalem? Take a good look at a map of Jerusalem and tell me where you would split it, especially so that jews have free and unestricted access to their religious sites?
As to Jews remaining in your Utopian Palestinian State the Palestinians have repeatedly said no Jews can remain there so what would you do with them - ethnically cleanse the "West Bank" of Jews?
Recognition - the Palestinians have repeatedly said that they will not recognise Israel as the State of the Jewish people - how will you deal with that?
Gaza - Hamas will not give up the "right to free the whole of Palestine" how will you deal with that and prevent further terrorists attacks on Israeli soil?

BTW Viv what you wrote was precisely the offer Olmert made to Abbas in 2008 and he turned it down without even a discussion.

http://www.meforum.org/blog/obama-mideast-monitor/2009/12/olmert-details...

Re-allocating Jerusalem is easy. All those areas added on after 1967 should be left out of the city's municipal control. The Jewish areas under Israeli control, the non-Jewish areas under Palestinian control.
But all this is moot, since successive Israeli governments have made a one-state solution a horrible inevitability. Best case scenario is two Cantons, one Hebrew speaking, the other Arabic, with Jerusalem as capital and seat of a binational government and parliament elected by all residents. Switzerland - but with deep-seated animosity and hatred.

The Palestinians are ready for peace and the Arab states have offered peace to Israel. Hamas has survived the siege and the massacres and will continue to win international recognition. The situation in Gaza gets worse every day and international civil protest will continue to become mainstream.
The Palestinians do not have the military capacity to harm Israel - and this would continue to be the case following their independence. This would be guaranteed by the US and the international community. Of course a Palestinian state would be easy to invade should the 'need' arise.
The negotiations would ensure Jews are permitted to live in Palestine and vice versa. No state can exist with Apartheid as a policy (as Israel is beginning to discover)
My final point is this: why not try it? Why not give the Palestinians their freedom, their dignity and their security. Try it. It has never been tried so it may work.

David Grossman (who is more eloquent than me)wrote in an open letter to Netanyahu in Haaretz that he is being disloyal to his office and his country by dismissing Abbas’ peace signals. “I will remind you, Mr. Netanyahu, that you were elected to lead Israel precisely in order to discern these rare hints of opportunity, in order to transform them into a possible lever to extricate your country from the impasse in which it has been stuck for decades.” Grossman continued, “In Israel’s present situation, you, Mr. Prime Minister, are obliged to respond to that signal. Because if you do not respond, if you do not intend to respond seriously to this fraction of a chance, I find it a bit difficult to understand why it is you want to be elected prime minister.”

Viv thanks for answering the questions I posed (sarcasm).
As usual you evade the issues which need to be agreed if there is any chance of a just and lasting peace.
Viv I told you Olmert offered them what you set out above in 2008 (Barak had offered the same to Arafat in 2000 - Bill Clinton has confirmed that) and they refused to even discuss it so how can you possibly justify your assertion that they are ready for peace?
Hamas is a terrorist organisation equipped and trained by the Ayatollahs in Iran - get real. There is no seige by Israel of Gaza if there was how did the Emir of Qatar mange to visit without passing a single Israeli soldier?
As to "The Palestinians do not have the military capacity to harm Israel" I think the citizens of Sderot and the south of Israel would disagree.
The evidence is that there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza despite the wild claims to the contrary. The Gazans problem is that they are controlled by a fascist anti-Semitic terrorist organisation which is dedicated to the destruction of the State of Israel.
So with whom do you propose we try your proposal?

Oh well - I have offered my opinion which you choose to belittle and reject.
The alternative is worse for Israel.
Who offered what to whom and when is disputed so often that it is irrelevant.
The time is now and time is running out. Soon there may be one state and then it will be an apartheid state. This will ensure the full wrath of international protest.

As for your analysis of Hamas, Israel is already negotiating with Hamas - how else was the prisoner swap reached? So it's all posturing - on both sides. And let's not forget that the rockets fired from Gaza are negligible when compared to the ordnance fired INTO Gaza from Israel.

Abbas says one thing on Channel 2 Israel television and then has to withdraw/clarify those statements fie minutes later or face a revolution or worse. It was farcical.
Netanyahu has invited Abbas just this week to recommence negotiations without pre-conditions. http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report_palestinians-reject-netanyahu-call-...
No one in Israel other than those living in cloud cuckoo land have any confidence that the Palestinians truly want to conduct a peace treaty that would result in two countries for two nations. For a start they refuse to even accept that there is a Jewish Nation or that we have an historical connection to the Land of Israel.

You're from Manchester aren't you?

So you have more right to the West Bank than someone who was born there, whose parents were born there and whose grandparents were born there?

Viv I asked you some pertinent questions you chose to ignore them. Unfortunately both for Israel and the Palestinians these are matters which have to be agreed in order to ensure that the result is both fair and just. Reeling off sound bites like "time is running out" helps no one. For the umpteenth Israel has offered the Palestinians what you yourself suggested they have never responded why aren't you urging them to respond instead of putting the onus continually on Israel?
I suggest you spend a month in Sderot and then tell me "rockets fired from Gaza are negligible". Easy to say sitting where you are. There would be no ordnance fired into Gaza if there were no rockets as the record proves.

Joshua789 who said I came from Manchester and what has that got to do with anything?
As a Jew I have every right to settle in the Land of Israel a right enshrined in International Law.

'There would be no ordnance fired into Gaza if there were no rockets as the record proves'

Really? Not according to Mark Regev

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfFMZ7Y-s_c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SILJxPTqjAM

So you were born in London then?

Does that give you the right to tell those who live in the West Bank that they can't live there even though they were born there, their parents and their parent's parents were born there?

Do you have that right? (The West Bank is not Israel)

'For the umpteenth Israel has offered the Palestinians what you yourself suggested they have never responded why aren't you urging them to respond instead of putting the onus continually on Israel?

The Onus is on Israel because Israel is the occupier. Israel is the one that is taking Palestinian land and preventing the Palestinians from joining the world community - quite apart from all the other injustices that the occupation enshrines.

The Palestinians don't have the power or the resources to force the process. They are the occupied, the imprisoned.

Joshua789 as I said it matters not a jot where I come from - Judea and Samaria are part of what was the Mandate for Palestine which gives me every right as a Jew to settle here. I am not even talking about our historical rights to this land which the Balfour Declaration recognised. We have returned home get over it. BTW where do I say that Arabs living in Judea and Samaria have no right to live there?

Viv apart from offering the Palestinians what you said which Israel has done on two occasions what else do you want Israel to do - sign on behalf of the Palestinians? be serious you know perfectly well that any Palestinan leader who signs a peace agreement with Israel is a dead man walking. At least Sadat was courageous enough both to realise that and still go through with a peace treaty with Israel for which he paid the ultimate price. Your assertion that the Palestinians do not have the resources to force the process is totally without foundation they have the backing of the 22 Arab States and what euphemistically used to be known as the non-aligned nations who basically control the UN.

At least Sadat was courageous enough both to realise that and still go through with a peace treaty with Israel for which he paid the ultimate price.

Yes, just like Yitzhak Rabin, assassinated by Yigal Amir, even before he was able to sign a peace agreement with the Palestinians.

Millis we both know that Yitzchak Rabin was never going to sign an agreement with the Palestinians that would have given them a state would he?

His last policy statement to the Knesset:
Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin: Ratification of the Israel-Palestinian

Interim Agreement
The Knesset
October 5, 1995
www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/1990_1999/1995/10/PM%20Rabin%20in%20Knesse...

* No Palestinian State: "We view the permanent solution in the framework of
State of Israel which will include most of the area of the Land of Israel as
it was under the rule of the British Mandate, and alongside it a Palestinian
entity which will be a home to most of the Palestinian residents living in
the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.

We would like this to be an entity which is less than a state, and which
will independently run the lives of the Palestinians under its authority."

* No return to '67 borders: "The borders of the State of Israel, during the
permanent solution, will be beyond the lines which existed before the Six
Day War. We will not return to the 4 June 1967 lines."

* Control of Jordan Valley: "The security border of the State of Israel will
be located in the Jordan Valley, in the broadest meaning of that term."

* Gush Katif as model: "The establishment of blocs of settlements in Judea
and Samaria, like the one in Gush Katif."

* All settlements remain intact during interim period: "I want to remind
you:
we committed ourselves, that is, we came to an agreement, and committed
ourselves before the Knesset, not to uproot a single settlement in the
framework of the interim agreement, and not to hinder building for natural
growth."

* (During interim period) "The responsibility for external security along
the borders with Egypt and Jordan, as well as control over the airspace
above all of the territories and Gaza Strip maritime zone, remains in our
hands."
====

Mr. Chairman, Members of Knesset,

First of all, the Government of Israel would like to wish all the citizens
of the State of Israel, and the members of the Jewish people in the
Diaspora, a happy New Year and an inscription for good in the coming year.
We wish the entire House of Israel a year of peace and security.

Members of Knesset,

Today, the Government presents to the Knesset the "Israeli- Palestinian
Interim Agreement on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip." The Government will
seek the Knesset's approval and will view the Knesset's decision as a vote
of confidence in the Government.

The Jewish people, which has known suffering and pain, has also known how to
preserve its faith, its heritage and its tradition during thousands of years
of exile, and has realized the dream of generations. We have, with our own
eyes, been privileged to see the return to Zion, the return of the children
to their borders.

Here, in the land of Israel, we returned and built a nation. Here, in the
land of Israel, we established a state. The land of the prophets, which
bequeathed to the world the values of morality, law and justice, was, after
two thousand years, restored to its lawful owners -- the members of the
Jewish people. On its land, we have built an exceptional national home and
state.

However, we did not return to an empty land. There were Palestinians here
who struggled against us for a hundred wild and bloody years. Many
thousands, on both sides, were killed in the battle over the same land, over
the same strip of territory, and were joined by the armies of the Arab
states. Today, after innumerable wars and bloody incidents, we rule more
than two million Palestinians through the IDF, and run their lives by a
Civil Administration. This is not a peaceful solution.

We can continue to fight. We can continue to kill -- and continue to be
killed. But we can also try to put a stop to this never-ending cycle of
blood. We can also give peace a chance.

The Government chose to give peace a chance. The Government chose to do
something to achieve it.

A position rather far to the right of the present Israeli Government wouldn't you say?

Oh Viv about that Mark Regev interview in which he mysteriously is cut off in mid flow perhaps because he was going to go on to say that on 4 November 2008, Israel launched a military strike on Hamas to destroy a tunnel on the Gaza-Israel border dug by terrorists to infiltrate into Israel and abduct soldiers. The raid was not a violation of the ceasefire, but a legitimate step to remove an immediate threat. A gunfight broke out, in which one Hamas fighter was killed. Hamas responded with a barrage of mortar and rocket fire at Israeli troops. It helps if you give the whole picture doesn't it?

Advis3r, that's disingenuous. But I'm hardly surprised. A Jewish terrorist assassinated him, after weeks of incitement from the far right. That was the point. Not whether Rabin HY"D meant to do this or that. Tul Korah me'bayn einecha.
.

Millis you attack me because you have no real answer to the truth. As you well know Rabin clearly stated he was not in favour of a Palestinian state. With the passage of time people like you have tried to paint him as someone he never was. Arafat would never have accepted what Rabin was offering which was a whole lot less than both Barak and Olmert later offered the Palestinians and which they refused even to discuss.
You and those like you are the ones who are disingenuous - that is you are not being candid or sincere. That he was murdered had no bearing on the matter he had made the speech to the Knesset and it's on the record - live with it!

Advis3r. Nice try. No cigar. Either you have a problem with reading comprehension, which I doubt, or you are trying to obfuscate, which I don't doubt.

The point was that Rabin HY"D - whether he was in favour of a Palestinian state or not - was assassinated for being just as courageous as Sadat. Or to put it more simply, the Israeli far right incited against Rabin for months before the Jewish terrorist Amir, yimach shemo, pulled the trigger. In other words, and to make it even clearer, if you'll excuse the pun, those wot live in glass houses shouldn't run about naked.

And that, dear boy, is not an attack. It's an explanation.

So tul Korah.

Millis completely off the point as usual.
I made the point about Sadat because there is no Palestinian leader willing to sign a peace treaty with Israel because he knows he is a dead man walking as did Sadat. And you bring up Rabin's assassination.
Rabin was never a dead man walking no one bumped off Begin for making a peace treaty with Sadat did they - even though thousands of Jews were moved out of Sinai? The murder had nothing to do with right wing incitement but everything to do with the Oslo Accords two years earlier that led to thousands of Israeli fatalities.
Your claim that Israeli far right incitement against Rabin led to the murder is total rubbish and has been completely discredited as an illegitimate way of trying to silence right wing opinion in Israel. I suggest you read what someone actually involved in the plot to assassinate him has to say
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/culture/2012/07/hagai-amir-on-facebook-w...

Next time you must try harder - Rabin was never for a Palestinian state and all for retaining Jewish sovereignty in Judea and Samaria live with it.

Call him Jose its easier to type.

Rabin HY"D was a dead man walking, Advis3r, because the far right incited. Begin Z"L wasn't a dead man walking because there was no incitement. Had Begin gone down the route of trying seriously to accommodate the Palestinians in the Occupied Territories, instead of trying to kick the issue into the long grass of autonomy, he too woyld have been assassinated by some extreme right wing Jewish terrorist.

And Rabin, had he been allowed to live by the far right, would no doubt have come to the same conclusion that so many other rational people came to; that Israel has no chance of surviving as a Jewish and democratic state unless it relinquished the occupied territories to the Palestinians for a state of their own. He, unlike the far right and the religio-ethnic ultra-nationalists, was no dogmatist. Dogma should be left to the Church, which brings me back to the Bible Belt Evangelicals clones - and clowns - who are developing their own non-Jewish sub-sect in the occupied territories.

Nasty Jew. You know who you are.

Viv, check your internal mail.

Rights? I suggest you inwardly digest this