Article about Sodastream in Brighton Argus


By Jonathan Hoffman
October 23, 2012
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http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/10002298.Unbottling_the_debate_over_Brigh...

....there is nothing illegal about SodaStream’s business. It is situated in Area C of the Occupied Territories, established in 1993 under the Oslo Accords. Under Israeli law, companies are free to open businesses in the area. The firm also has factories in Alon Tavor and Ashkelon in Israel.

"Palestinians, Jews and Christians all work together at SodaStream. If you could reproduce what we are doing across the area you would have peace. "

“The best thing I could do for SodaStream’s bottom line is move production to China. I won’t do that. We pay our workers three times the Israeli national average. We give them healthcare. Unemployment in the Palestine Authority region is around 30 per cent. Why would anyone want us to stop employing Palestinian workers?”

After speaking with Mr Birnbaum, I travelled to Jabba, on the outskirts of Ramallah , the capital of the Palestine Authority, to visit the home of Yousef Besharat who works as an assembly line manager at the Mishor factory. Yousef, in his early 20s, told me that with one year’s salary he has built a house in Jabba which he was looking forward to moving into. He said he had job security and a future. This is not to say that the daily grind of checkpoints and hassle is not corrosive. Yousef ’s brother, who also works as a supervisor at SodaStream, summed up the dilemma: “We hate the occupation. But we like our jobs.”

The workers’ determination to get on with the day-to-day job of earning a living despite local difficulties is shared by the staff at the Ecostream store back in Brighton.

COMMENTS

Mary in Brighton

Wed, 10/24/2012 - 08:25

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No one was surprised by what John Keenan had to say, it was known it was going to happen. After all where would his next all expenses paid jolly have come from?

What Jonathan failed to mention is that Argus journalists are horrified at his sycophancy and at how cheaply he was bought. This article will come back to bite him. Further, that Sodastream feel they have to go to these lengths suggests they are not as confident as they would have us believe.


Real Real Zionist

Wed, 10/24/2012 - 08:40

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“A responsible journalist has no business taking a free trip to Israel — or to any other country, or to a Hollywood film studio’s junket at a resort, or to any other destination that is involved in the subject matter that the journalist covers or is likely to cover in the future. Period,” said Samuel Freedman, a journalism professor at Columbia University’s Graduate School of Journalism and an expert on media ethics. Freedman stressed that even if the free trips do not create actual bias in the reporting, “they absolutely create the perception of bias, and that perception is just as corrosive to a journalist’s credibility.” Larry Lorenz, professor emeritus of journalism at Loyola University New Orleans, agreed that receiving free trips is wrong regardless of whether reporters write about the issue. “Journalism organizations should be concerned about giving the appearance of being bought,” Lorenz said."


Advis3r

Wed, 10/24/2012 - 09:50

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Obviously when the actual legal position is pointed the Fake Zionist and his dopey sidekick attack the messenger not the message i.e. "It is situated in Area C of the Occupied Territories, established in 1993 under the Oslo Accords" and therefore perfectly lawful.

And if he wants to talk about bias then what about the perception of bias created by The funding of Strategically important subjects in UK Universities
http://www.socialcohesion.co.uk/files/1238334247_1.pdf


AlistairClark

Wed, 10/24/2012 - 11:15

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"....there is nothing illegal about SodaStream’s business. It is situated in Area C" This is a flat out lie all settlements are illegal under international law though Israel disputes this.


Advis3r

Wed, 10/24/2012 - 11:25

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No according only to political consensus - there has been no definitive ruling in any universally recognized court of law - "the settlements are illegal" but justifiably Israel disputes this citing International Law in support of its claim that the settlements are legal en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levy_Report - that's more truthful don't you think?

Anyway we're here.


happygoldfish

Wed, 10/24/2012 - 11:29

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AlistairClark: "....there is nothing illegal about SodaStream’s business. It is situated in Area C" This is a flat out lie all settlements are illegal under international law though Israel disputes this.

you're missing the point

only transfer of population is regulated by the geneva convention

this is transfer of business, and it's not regulated by international law at all

(except of course that a benign occupying power will obviously try to help the economy of the occupied territory …

this factory certainly does that )


Real Real Zionist

Wed, 10/24/2012 - 11:58

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That is racist goldfish.

There is no such thing as a benign occupation except perhaps sometimes a very short one. Are you telling us that the occupation is benign and that it therefore should be welcomed by the occupied ? Whose land is the factory built on ? Is there any exploitation of the resources of the territory ? Has there been any transfer of population, to manage the factory or whatever ? What is the opportunity cost to the occupied of occupation by a foreign power and very kindly given a job in a factory established by aliens at the point of a tank cannon. ?

This patronising racism is beyond the pale.Statements such as you have just made could only be made by someone that has lost all moral compass.


Harvey

Wed, 10/24/2012 - 12:08

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Good to see the Brighton rent a mob brigade crying foul play over this .
Unlike Ahava , this will not be one way traffic .


Advis3r

Wed, 10/24/2012 - 12:28

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"could only be made by someone that has lost all moral compass" you mean like someone who denies that there is a Jewish people with a right to self determination?

It certainly is not Palestinian land at most it is land the Palestinians claim for a state but which Israel claims justifiably belongs to the Jewish people as being part of the original Mandate for Palestine.

But never mind all that as I said we're here anyway.


Real Real Zionist

Wed, 10/24/2012 - 12:32

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Harv it will be different, more of an even match. The Brighton activists are numerically strong and have a long record of persistence and durablity and the experience that comes from that. On the other hand Birnbaum seems to be a bit of a hard case and as bloody minded as those opposite him. Also the counter demonstrators seem to be capable of mustering more than 4 ( excluding the EDL ).

Further the shop is directly owned whereas the owner of Ahava was pretty much on her own.

But I think the outcome will be the same. Birnbaum's achilles heel will be the same as Ahava's ie the effect on neighbouring traders. I understand he has a short lease.

Also the Keenan thing will prove to be a spectacular own goal. People don't like shifty local journalists and nor do their more up front colleagues.


happygoldfish

Wed, 10/24/2012 - 12:37

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Real Real Zionist: That is racist goldfish. …
This patronising racism is beyond the pale.

there's nothing racist at all in my very short post

it was a brief and correct statement of international law …

you don't like it, so you cry "racism", on no grounds at all

Real Real Zionist: Whose land is the factory built on ? Is there any exploitation of the resources of the territory ? Has there been any transfer of population, to manage the factory or whatever ? What is the opportunity cost to the occupied of occupation by a foreign power and very kindly given a job in a factory established by aliens at the point of a tank cannon. ?

the land is unowned land which nobody used or wanted, and nobody will use or want when the israelis have gone

no, no exploitation of the resources of the territory

most of the israelis (including arabs) are commuting across the border (even if they weren't, that wouldn't make the business illegal)

(i don't understand your "opportunity cost" question … anyway, it appears to have nothing to do with illegality)

none of your questions reveal any grounds on which an argument of illegality could even be founded

Real Real Zionist: There is no such thing as a benign occupation except perhaps sometimes a very short one. Are you telling us that the occupation is benign and that it therefore should be welcomed by the occupied ?

some occupations are more benign than others

i never gave this occupation marks out of ten

if i did, i would take economic help into account

i would certainly give it higher marks than the jordanian occupation of the same territory

(and no, of course i don't expect it to be welcomed)


Advis3r

Wed, 10/24/2012 - 12:52

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But I think the outcome will be the same. Birnbaum's achilles heel will be the same as Ahava's ie the effect on neighbouring traders. I understand he has a short lease.

How lovely and these people see no resemblance to the boycott of Jewish shops in pre-War Germany.

How many more Jewish owned businesses will it take to go out of business before the Jewish Community in Britain stop being trembling Israelites and actually stand up to these Jew hating thugs?

Do they not realise that this has absolutely nothing to do with supporting the Palestinians but everything to do with destroying Israel.


Harvey

Wed, 10/24/2012 - 13:07

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Except of course when they work for the Daily Graun
Or every hotel s fav give away the Indie .


Real Real Zionist

Wed, 10/24/2012 - 13:09

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Don't shoot the messenger Jose.

Unowned land ? That must be the only place in the world where there is unowned land. And regardless, land is a resource and it is being exploited by the occupier. But to be honest.......

"But never mind all that as I said we're here anyway."

And so are they Jose, so are they. Gonna be one big happy democratic family huh ?


AlistairClark

Wed, 10/24/2012 - 13:28

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"How lovely and these people see no resemblance to the boycott of Jewish shops in pre-War Germany." Absolutely nothing like the boycott of Jewish shops in pre war Germany as that was the precursor to among other things ,Jews getting stripped possessions and murdered . "How many more Jewish owned businesses will it take to go out of business before the Jewish Community in Britain stop being trembling Israelites and actually stand up to these Jew hating thugs?" The businesses are not being boycotted because they are Jewish owned,being Jewish owned is besides the point.Any business that is seen help perpetuate the occupation is likely to be targeted. "Do they not realise that this has absolutely nothing to do with supporting the Palestinians but everything to do with destroying Israel." Its everything to do with helping the occupied people,Palestinians. The logic is simple make it uneconomical to continue the occupation. Israel has a huge military probably capable of taking on and beating all of the M.E plus an arsenal of nuclear weapons,Israel won't get burned making peace or not.Little chance of Israel being destroyed despite the fear mongers.


happygoldfish

Wed, 10/24/2012 - 13:34

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Real Real Zionist: Unowned land ? That must be the only place in the world where there is unowned land.

don't be ridiculous, there is unowned land in most countries …

in some countries, it is the majority of the land!

Real Real Zionist: And regardless, land is a resource and it is being exploited by the occupier

are we discussing international law or not?

there's nothing to stop you using "resources" and "exploit" in that way, but it has nothing to do with the international law of usufruct, that says that an occupier must not use up the resources of the occupied land

operating a factory on unowned occupied land is not contrary to international law, is permitted (in this case) by the oslo accords, and will usually help the local economy

you have still not given any grounds for even the beginning of a case that the operation of this factory is illegal


Mary in Brighton

Wed, 10/24/2012 - 14:16

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Happygoldfish, you know that the land that Sodastream is sitting on was " unowned " in 1967 how ?


happygoldfish

Wed, 10/24/2012 - 14:28

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Mary in Brighton: Happygoldfish, you know that the land that Sodastream is sitting on was " unowned " in 1967 how ?

d'uh!

because if it wasn't, the israeli supreme court would have ordered it to be returned to the owner …

israeli law doesn't permit taking possession of owned land!


Harvey

Wed, 10/24/2012 - 14:43

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Mary
Genuine question .
Why did the Palestinians fail to declare their nation state at any time between 1947 and 1967 when there was no ' occupation ' and no settlements ?


Mary in Brighton

Wed, 10/24/2012 - 14:46

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Splutter @goldfish


Mary in Brighton

Wed, 10/24/2012 - 14:56

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Harvey you maybe should ask them. I really am not much interested in declarations of States, I'm a no borders anarchist.


Real Real Zionist

Wed, 10/24/2012 - 15:03

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Yes I think goldfish is having a laugh.


Harvey

Wed, 10/24/2012 - 16:43

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Don't worry Mary , it was purely rhetorical . I didn't expect a straight answer .
I ve posed the same question a thousand times and never received a meaningful answer from the Israel haters .
Good luck with the monde sans frontiers .
Suggest you start by pulling down your neighbours fence .


Advis3r

Wed, 10/24/2012 - 16:51

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I see Alistair the racist thugette who told Mr Hoffman to go back to Russia at the Ahava demonstration said that because was because he was supporting Israel and obviously had nothing to do with him being Jewish did it? Let's be quite clear you are a bunch of Jew hating thugs who are targetting Jewish businesses on specious grounds - I don't hear claims of apartheid when the Arabs say they want the "West Bank" to be cleared of Jews. I see no boycotts of Chinese companies and businesses in the UK despite the illegal occupation of Tibet or of Turkish businesses despite the denial of rights to the Kurdish people who have been around for far longer than the "Palestinians" or the illegal occupation of Cyprus by the same people who call for boycotts of Israel. This is pure and simple Jew hatred. You lie about apartheid you lie about Jews stealing land you just plain lie!
Your stupid pinpricks are just that but are despicable for all that. Most of the world including the EU which has just signed an agreement to buy generic medicines manufactured in Israel (which I trust in keeping with your misguided principles you don't buy) recognises the contribution which Israel makes to the World and are more than happy to do business with it - the BDS thugs however hate the fact that there is a Jewish State - if not how come we hear from the river to the sea at all BDS demonstrations. Quite clearly you lie!


Advis3r

Wed, 10/24/2012 - 16:56

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By the way Mary contrary to what you and the other lying numpty BDS supporters claim the Supreme Court in Israel does uphold the law and has invariably returned property to Arabs who have been able to prove private ownership to land - but let's not let the truth get in the way of a vicious lie.


Mary in Brighton

Wed, 10/24/2012 - 17:03

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Harvey it was a perfectly straight answer. As for my neighbours fence. What fence ? We agreed we had no use for that a long time ago. .


Advis3r

Wed, 10/24/2012 - 17:04

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Fake Zionist there is no such thing as unowned land in the UK – all land is owned by someone. Even where an owner, if an individual, has died without leaving a will or near relatives, or a company has been dissolved, there will be an owner – usually the Treasury Solicitor on behalf of the Crown. It is the same in Israel that is where no one is able to assert a private legal right to land it belongs to the State. Accordingly most of the communities in Judea and Samaria have been built on land to which no one whether Arab or Jew has asserted a private ownership right. Israel has asserted its right over such land by virtue of the Mandate for Palestine which gave the Jewish people and no other nationality a right to settle that land.


Advis3r

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 12:42

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A talk by Israeli ambassador Daniel Taub at Edinburgh University was disrupted by chanting students waving Palestinian flags on Wednesday evening.

As I said nothing but thugs and enemies of free speech. You Brits have a big problem and it isn't the Jewish Lobby.


Mary in Brighton

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 13:59

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That may be so Advsr but at least women can pray where they want


Advis3r

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 14:28

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Millis I point out a mainstream problem affecting most of the campuses in the British Isles and you come up with the lunatic fringe! You must try harder.


Advis3r

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 14:50

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Ok Mary let's see you walk into a Mosque in the UK and by the way don't cover your hair and don't remove your shoes and for goodness sake sing at the top of your voice.

Ah but you wouldn't do that would you because you have respect for Muslim sensibilities. In the same way that Anat Hoffman should have respect for Jewish sensibilities.


Advis3r

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 15:03

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Millis I point out a mainstream problem affecting most of the campuses in the British Isles and you come up with the lunatic fringe! You must try harder.


joemillis1959

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 15:04

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Hate to break it to you, Advis3r, but the numpties protesting against Taub's speech are as much a lunatic fringe as the the Jewish Division of the EDL (a lunatic fringe in and of itself).


Mary in Brighton

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 15:15

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I'll break it to you too Advsr. I wouldn't do that for the reasons you describe. But if I DID I wouldn't get arrested by the peelers, roughed up and spend a night in a cell. And certainly not on the authority of the highest court in the land.


Real Real Zionist

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 16:36

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Since we are talking about lunatic fringes this is not off topic. I see Brian Coleman has been charged with two offences including assaulting a woman cafe owner.


Ben F

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 16:41

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I would be my very large and expensive house against anyone's bag of moldy popcorn that this blog is going to get deleted.


joemillis1959

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 16:44

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Just reposted after 6pm so self-publicity will not be questioned.


Harvey

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 16:59

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Joe . You really are a glutton for punishment .
Here you are pre UJIA

30 May Joe Millis‏@joemillis1959
@jlpcoach@richmillett@tonylerman@jeremy_newmark Zionist #BDS is not a boycott of israel, it helps the fight against our one-staters30 May Joe Millis‏@joemillis1959

And here I don't "hate" Israel. I just don't see the point of it, since it appears to have decided to be the new South Africa, except in this case a Jewish minority is ruling over a never-enfranchised non-Jewish majority.

Here is your Sudden change of heart following your albeit short lived employment with UJIA .

On the issue of BDS, I am totally opposed to this – even to the targeted version against settlers. In a recent – ill-advised and now removed - Facebook exchange, regarding Divisional Elections for the Board of Deputies of which I am an elected member as a representative of my synagogue, I made it clear that I adhered to John Maynard Keynes' view that if the facts changed, I change my mind. As I wrote: 'I don't care what the BDS movement says. They are a failure and a small and deluded minority. The figures speak for themselves.

Great stuff Millis . Schizophrenic or just a Janus .


joemillis1959

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 17:14

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I agree, Advis3r, thugs and enemies of free speech are a real problem in Britain today.

And here

The leader of an extreme right-wing Jewish group has been condemned for claiming that a proposed Muslim community centre would lead to attacks on Jews.
Roberta Moore, head of the UK branch of the Jewish Defence League, wrote to Camden Council complaining about the proposed conversion of a shop in Cricklewood, north London.


joemillis1959

Thu, 10/25/2012 - 17:15

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Good news from the Board of Deputies.
In February of 2013 Oxfam and the Board of Deputies of British Jews will launch a year-long Leadership Programme to fight global poverty and food injustice. We are seeking highly-motivated and passionate individuals who wish to dovetail their Jewish values with a programme to change the world; the Oxfam GROW Campaign.
Please get in contact for more deatils and share this with all your friends to spread the word and save the world.

Which objectionable person could possibly object to this?


Advis3r

Fri, 10/26/2012 - 08:06

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Mary first you would get arrested for incitement to racial hatred/causing an affray but secondly I am not sure you would do it anyway
www.think-israel.org/adelman.acidattacks.html


Advis3r

Fri, 10/26/2012 - 08:20

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Millis you are a complete and rancid fabricator and your comments continue to display your total dis-ingenuity. The picture you show is of people who whatever their political hue and whether or not you agree with them being lawfully involved in a counter demonstration. They were not stopping the anti-Jewish protesters from protesting against the Ahava shop unlike the mindless anti-Jewish thugs in Edinburgh and on campuses throughout the UK who are involved in a systematic attempt to unlawfully close down the voice of anyone supporting or speaking on behalf of Israel. The pity is that you seem incapable of discerning the difference.


Advis3r

Fri, 10/26/2012 - 08:29

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Oh and regarding Oxfam maybe working in collaboration with the Board of Guardians may convince those running the organisation which has become an active actor and contributor to the ongoing, and tragic, conflict in the Middle East to revise its policies. At present all one can say of it is that its main aim in the area seems to be to demonize Israel and generate diplomatic tensions, and that it is a major contributor to the “Durban strategy” of isolating Israel internationally.


JC Webmaster

Fri, 10/26/2012 - 09:59

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