19 lies the BDS mob say about Israel and how to respond to them


By Jonathan Hoffman
September 23, 2012
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COMMENTS

AlistairClark

Mon, 09/24/2012 - 10:53

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-3 points

What a load! poorly recycled Hasbara.I'm not much for BDS as a group but I'm even less for Mr Hoffman's one sided lies.If you like Mr Hoffman we could debate your piece,I ear you go on about one sidedness and bias but that's exactly how you support Israel.Exactly how many countries see Israel's occupation of the territories as legit' and legal? Well speak up man.Its the one sided tosh from people like you that give legitamcy to BDS.


richmillett

Mon, 09/24/2012 - 11:08

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2 points

Alistair, one might argue that if there were 1.5 billion Jews in the world and 14 million Muslims, instead of the other way round, more countries would see "Israel's occupation" as "legit' and legal".


joemillis1959

Mon, 09/24/2012 - 11:08

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-3 points

Ok, who compiled this? In answer to 5, whoever did it goes to huge lengths to explain the territories aren't occupied. Yet in answer to 9 it calls the territories occupied. A little consistency, please


joemillis1959

Mon, 09/24/2012 - 11:08

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-2 points

Ok, who compiled this? In answer to 5, whoever did it goes to huge lengths to explain the territories aren't occupied. Yet in answer to 9 it calls the territories occupied. A little consistency, please


Harvey

Mon, 09/24/2012 - 11:42

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1 point

Alistair
It's not really good enough to cite comments as being recycled Hasbarah or one sided tosh as you put it . You need to substantiate your claims
clearly and concisely in order for others to take you seriously .
Take it one point at a time . Start with #1. It's usually a good place to start .


Harvey

Mon, 09/24/2012 - 11:58

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1 point

Joe
On the basis of your epiphany recognising the error of your support for Bds , it's somewhat a concern to note your picking holes in the ZF list of refutations .
Was your sudden volte face dependent on your employment ,and if so will your recent change of circumstances cause a return to your original stated support for Bds ?


Mary in Brighton

Mon, 09/24/2012 - 12:49

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-2 points

Interesting that Jonathan agrees with those that feel that a primary function of the fence is to grab land.

Are these answers official ZF positions or Jonathan's private fantasies ?

Harvey ?


Harvey

Mon, 09/24/2012 - 13:07

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1 point

Mary
Time for a geography class
Please take out your atlas and do sit up straight .
If it was a land grab and not simply a means to prevent homicidal maniacs blowing up Israeli civilians , the fence would have been built as far as the Jordan river thus encompassing ALL of the West Bank . Why build a fence more or less on the original 67 borders if you were intending a land grab .


Advis3r

Mon, 09/24/2012 - 13:55

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1 point

Let's get this straight the original proposal for a security barrier came from the left wing of the political spectrum - the right wing opposed it on the grounds that it would pre-judge final status negotiations.

“It obliges us to establish a barrier wall which is the only thing that can minimize the infiltration of these male and female suicide bombers,”

said Defense Minister Benjamin Ben-Eliezer, (Labour) who emphasized that “the fence is not political, [and] is not a border.”http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/israel/fence.htm
It excludes most of Judea and Samaria and only encompasses those communities which have been recognised over time as being part of what will be the final shape of a two state solution with variations for security purposes and where Arab villagers have successfully argued in the Israeli courts that the hardship to them outweighs the security concerns of the Army. The question remains how can you grab what already belongs to you?


Real Real Zionist

Mon, 09/24/2012 - 14:13

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-2 points

".....so will your recent change of circumstances cause a return to your original stated support for Bds ?"

Harv are you fishing again ?

This is dire even by Hoffie standards. Anyone that went out spouting this stuff would get shredded .With " friends " like these Israel doesn't need enemies.

In the meantime Mary's question remains unanswered.

"....... it's somewhat a concern to note your picking holes in the ZF list of refutations ."

Are you saying this is officially endorsed ZF drivel ?


richmillett

Mon, 09/24/2012 - 14:39

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1 point

I take issue with the answer to Q5. UNSCR 242 only calls for withdrawal of Israel's armed forces, not Israel per se. Anyone disagree?


Mary in Brighton

Mon, 09/24/2012 - 14:47

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-1 points

You should take it up with Jonathan Advsr


joemillis1959

Mon, 09/24/2012 - 15:05

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0 points

But to the issue at hand…Why the contradiction between 5 and 9?
What changed circumstances? News to me, guv'. My position on BDS is that it is a knee-jerk bit of student politics which does no one any good, least of all the Palestinians it purports to help


zaheerayin

Mon, 09/24/2012 - 15:17

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-3 points

Has anyone told Isi?


Real Real Zionist

Mon, 09/24/2012 - 15:24

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0 points

"I take issue with the answer to Q5. UNSCR 242 only calls for withdrawal of Israel's armed forces, not Israel per se. Anyone disagree?"

Oh great! I guess it was envisaged that the occupation would then be enforced by a loose alliance of the Tel Aviv and Beersheba girl guide troops.


happygoldfish

Mon, 09/24/2012 - 16:26

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2 points
from http://unispal.un.org/unispal.nsf/0/7D35E1F729DF491C85256EE700686136

Resolution 242 (1967)
of 22 November 1967

The Security Council,

Expressing its continuing concern with the grave situation in the Middle East,

Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war and the need to work for a just and lasting peace in which every State in the area can live in security,

Emphasizing further that all Member States in their acceptance of the Charter of the United Nations have undertaken a commitment to act in accordance with Article 2 of the Charter,

1. Affirms that the fulfilment of Charter principles requires the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East which should include the application of both the following principles:

(i) Withdrawal of Israel armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict;

(ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force


Harvey

Mon, 09/24/2012 - 16:40

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1 point

(ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force

Both Hamas and the PA have thus far refused to accept this clause .
Hence no peace agreement .


Real Real Zionist

Mon, 09/24/2012 - 16:50

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1 point

" Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war "

"....... it's somewhat a concern to note your picking holes in the ZF list of refutations ."

Harv are you saying that this is a compendium of ZF refutations and the ZF endorses this stream of drivel ?

Or are you and Hoffie up to your old tricks again ?

Hey it's not a complex question.


zaheerayin

Mon, 09/24/2012 - 17:40

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0 points

Well if neither Jonathan nor Harvey will answer the question, maybe the Zionist Federation should be asked directly?


AlistairClark

Tue, 09/25/2012 - 13:41

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-2 points

If anyone wants or needs to see where Mr Hoffman got his sources for this piece google the paragraphs one by one and the original writers come up. (The telegraph has contributed) and certainly you can get a map showing what and where was bought by Zionists,exposing the lie of Zionists bought it.Yes the Zionists bought land but very little in the scheme of things and most of the bought land is now modern Israel


happygoldfish

Tue, 09/25/2012 - 16:01

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2 points

AlistairClark: … you can get a map showing what and where was bought by Zionists,exposing the lie of Zionists bought it.Yes the Zionists bought land but very little in the scheme of things and most of the bought land is now modern Israel

(what lie? ) (and, btw, what map?)

the united nations partitioned 1947 palestine on the basis of jewish and arab population, not jewish and arab land ownership

palestine was very under-populated, and the land was very under-productive … zionists were able to buy relatively small areas of land and place relatively large numbers of people on them

jewish land ownership was about 7%, while arab land ownership was over 20% , see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_territories#History … "In 1947, the total Jewish ownership of land in Palestine was … 7.04% of the total land of Palestine. Public property or "crown lands", the bulk of which was in the Negev, belonging to the government of Palestine may have made up as much as 70% of the total land; with the Arabs, Christians and others owning the rest."

alistair, are you suggesting that in 1947 the united nations partition was based on a lie, and that the jews didn't own land in sufficient quantity to make them the majority population in the "jewish areas"?


Advis3r

Thu, 09/27/2012 - 13:17

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-1 points

Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war "

Ah but it was part of the land that had been "entrusted" to perfidious Albion in the Mandate for Palestine for close settlement by the Jews so the Jews were just restoring to themselves what had rightfully been set aside for them all along and which had been stolen by the Jordanians who had already gobbled up much of the land comprised in the Palestine Mandate as handed to them on a plate by perfidious Albion.


suzanna

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 15:30

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0 points

26 Sept 12

Donations to a Norwegian organization that funds illegal Israeli settlements will no longer be tax-deductible following a decision by the Norwegian government.

The Norwegian Ministry of Finance announced the decision to remove Karmel-instituttet from the list of organizations eligible for tax-deductible donations on Thursday under pressure from Norwegian People's Aid and the Norwegian Union of Municipal and General Employees, NPA said in a statement.

"We are very pleased that the Ministry of Finance has made this decision, based on the fact that Karmel provides funds to the illegal Israeli settlements," said Liv Tørres, the secretary-general of NPA.

The Norwegian Ministry of Finance said they intended to ensure the system of tax deductions did not benefit organizations that actively support or contribute to acts that are in contravention of international law, NPA added.

According to the groups, Karmel-instittuttet had funded three study centers and around half the homes in the illegal Alonei Shilo settlement.

That settlement is illegal under both international and Israeli law.


suzanna

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 15:32

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0 points

This month (August) was marked by multiple, serious attacks by Israeli settlers on Palestinian civilians and their property. Overall in August, OCHA recorded a total of 25 incidents resulting in Palestinian casualties (19 injuries) or property damages. This is below the 2012 monthly average of 31 incidents; however, the severity of many of the attacks, as well as the involvement of children both as victims and as perpetrators, is of particular concern.


suzanna

Fri, 09/28/2012 - 15:36

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'Israelis teach their children to hate Arabs'

According to the Israeli media, the Israeli police detained three settlers, aged 12 and 13 years old, suspected of carrying out the firebomb attack in the Bethlehem governorate.3 Likewise, a group of Israeli youths, including eight children, was indicted for their participation in an attempted lynching in West Jerusalem of a 17-year-old Palestinian boy from East Jerusalem;

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