For all those wasting time with "hasbara"

He has truly lost the plot

You really are the pits millis . Banal asides relating to treif alongside the chief rabbis measured contribution .That in itself suggests the measure of you . He lord Sachs is not a critique of , or to give its real meaning enlightenment,but suggests it is only used once we understand the message of the enemy . Rather then adopt a knee jerk reaction to each individual attack , we need to respond down the line and only when we fully understand the nature and thrust of the enemy . It's not about not using hasbara , it's about how and when to use to best effect .
Unfortunately , as Jonathan puts it so succinctly , you really do appear to have lost the plot .
Why do you see the worst in israel and its supporters which plays to the delegitimizers and those determined to see israels dismantlement .

Why do you want to see Israel dismantled, Harvey, because you are playing Hamas' game? It's you who are the anti-Zionist pits, sunshine.

More creative writers and philosophers to defeat the delegitmisation campaign is just what we need.

If there are any creative writers and philosophers out there reading this, please come to the Ahava counter-demos and you can create and philosophise to your hearts' content........

I'm not entirely sure that hasbara and the Ahava counter-demos have been such a stellar success. I wouldn't use them as examples. Perhaps a new approach is required.

More of an embarrassment: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBH6XONDpes&feature=player_embedded

Spot on and seconded jonathan . The enemy are organized , creative , industrious and operate on a multi facet platform. We need to apply an intellectual ,philosophical approach somewhere down the line .
Was that before or after Israeli citizens have been prevented from Uk entry. Jewish and Israeli students intimidated . Israeli academics banned and higher institutions cutting cooperation and ucu dictating what is and is not antisemitic .
Like you say we don't need the higher realm of moralising and intellectual debate between ourselves . We need workers at the coal face prepared to get down and dirty and use the same tactics as the haters . The ucu law suit is an excellent example . Counter punch not bs theory . The floptilla is an excellent example of what can be achieved to sink the enemy and thwart their venal intent .

Iris
Did you have a nice boat trip with your fellow Bds bozos . At least the propellor shaft remained intact this time . Hoist the main sail. It's a pirates life for me !

@Lord Sacks

What would you advise if the "philosophers and creative writers" coming to your think-tank were taken off the plane at Heathrow and put into custody on trumped-up charges because they had served in the IDF?

Harvey, I didn't know you were so concerned about the British authorities preventing Raed Salah from entering Britain.

The point about the flight protest, the BDS campaign, the flotilla, the song endorsed by Massive Attack and Coldplay is that behind the actual summit of campaigners there are many millions more supporting them - who paid for the boats after all?
The shout will become ever louder as more and more people join the international campaign(s).

The best way for Israel to quieten down the noise is to start to compromise with international law. The first point is to stop the settlements and the blockade. Both are easily achieved and neither would compromise Israel's security. Israel could then enter negotiations with the Palestinians knowing that it was being fair and honourable. This would do much for Israel's image.

Millis
If you are unable to differentiate between the likes of an inveterate antisemite ,rascist bigot such as salah and by way of example , tzipi Livni then you are even worse then previously suspected. I have more respect for the Bds / ism fascists . At least you get whats on the label . You on the other hand play a duplicitous game but it's fairly crude and highly transparent . There are many like you chipping away at israels legitimacy from the inside so to speak . We recognize you . Some of you turn up outside ahava or go on hate cruises on the Thames to press your mendacious cause but the tide is turning (no pun intended)
This week saw the sinking of the flop tilla and flytilla . The UN report finally acknowledged israels legitimate right to blockade an enemy enclave . The UCU will need to respond to a lawsuit accusing it of sustained endemic antisemitism. Turkey is about to do a massive volte face as it realizes its mistake .
The tide is slowly turning and the flotsam is already starting to be washed up on the beaches.Especially round the Greek ports .

Rushkin
If I'm not mistaken you are an old hand from cif . Welcome to the JC . You are not on friendly territory but a dose of fairness and balance is a good antidote for delusion and mendacity .
As for illegal blockades . You are behind the times . The UN report about to be released upholds israels legitimate right to blockade a hostile terrorist entity.
As for the blah blah mantra of settlements being the cause of the conflict and that if only israel would remove them all would be well in the world .
There were no settlements and no occupation prior to 1967!. That did not prevent Egypt and others from deciding on a course of existential war designed to obliterate israel once and for all.
Sure , now let's return to the starting block and air brush that little part of history. Don't take us for fools . There is cause and effect and responsibility for ones actions . This applies no less to the Palestinians and the Arab states .
Start with the words" we accept israel as the Jewish state " and go from there .

The tide us indeed turning against you and others who pretend they are Zionists but are actually mouthpieces for the far right israeli government and the toxic settlements. But the game is up. No one believes you or your political masters who are dragging Israel to the abyss.
It's always case that internal extremists have brought about the destruction of Jewish nationhood. There's no reason to believe this time will be any different. You and your ilk have ruined Israel. For Shame.

'The UN report about to be released upholds Israel’s legitimate right to blockade a hostile terrorist entity'.

Is that the same UN that has issued dozen upon dozen of resolutions against the occupation, wall, shootings etc?

The point I am making is that whatever the right wing Zionists accept as 'legal' or 'illegal’ there is an international swell of opinion growing in favour of a two state solution that is fair to the Palestinians as well as the Israelis. If Israel truly cared about justice and peace - as it so often claims - the first thing it could do would be to stop settlement building. How are the Palestinians expected to negotiate when their territory is being stolen from them?
The second would be to lift the blockade. The security of the Palestinians - who are the main victims of the violence in the area - should also be of concern.

The second would be to lift the blockade. The security of the Palestinians - who are the main victims of the violence in the area - should also be of concern.

Rushkin

The report relates specifically to the events surrounding last years flotilla operation and Israels response in particular to the Mavi Mamara . The report concludes that Israels blockade is absolute in its legality . The report has nothing to do with any of the other points you have raised . Understandably there are those who are now questioning the validity of the report .Something akin to the Irish Euro referendum whereby it's back to the drawing board until the right outcome is achieved . Why not simply appoint a panel consisting of several of the 57 Muslim states .Syria and Lebanon for human rights validity plus a couple of banana republics from South America are bound to get the right result .
Spare me the tears regarding Palestinian deprivation due to the blockade on Gaza or the security fence unless of course you can provide links expressing your abhorrence of sustained Palestinian terrorist atrocity which has caused the death and injury to thousands of Israels civilian population and which in turn has neccessitated extreme but justified measures .

Millis
What you deem right wing is anyone who upholds israels inalienable right of independence and to identify itself as the Jewish homeland . In the same that there are 57 states that identify themselves as being Muslim . The difference of course that israel upholds the rights of all religious minorities within israel unlike the predominantly apartheid system which prevails throughout the Muslim world .

No what I deem right wing are those who believe in Israel right or wrong - and who will never criticise and always excuse the self-defeating anti-Zionist policies of the Netanyahu/Lieberman regime which have led to Israel becoming in effect an apartheid state - and those who think their national/ethnic group is superior to others. Those who are far right think it's OK to spit on their opponents, use homophobic and racist abuse and believe that by parading outside a West End shop and shouting abuse they are in any way helping Israel. Those right wingers tend to be the mirror image of the Hamasniks they so hate.
They also usually hide behind single names - no comeback that way, you see.

Millis
Israel is deemed an apartheid state by those who have an issue with its very existence . This includes the vast majority of the Arab world which as we have seen in recent months murders and represses its own citizens . Many are considered failed totalitarian pariah states such as Iran , Lebanon , Syria etc
Outside the Muslim world critics of israel include certain corrupt south American states , china north Korea and Africa . NGOs such as ism and Bds psc etc work closely with proscribed terrorist entities such as Hezbollah and Hamas
These are the groups and states which label israel apartheid .
The states which do not include Europe and the USA , Canada, Australia and new Zealand . All first world mature law abiding democratic states .
I take comfort in the knowledge that those who condemn israel consist exclusively of failed rotten entities that attract free world approbation

That should read condemnation of the free world

Hiding behind single names ? Sure like telegram Sam , /millis ,Watchful iris and suzannah

I count two names in Watchful Iris and Telegram Sam. Why the obsession with a TREX song?
As for Suzannah, I don't see why you and she have a problem. You are both supporters of the anti-Zionist one-state solution, the one that leads to the destruction of Israel. For shame.
Israel's current government and its supporters are causing Israel's own delegitmisation by pursuing policies that will lead to its demise, by supporting the toxic settlements and by overacting to every cough and fart of the anti-Zionists.

Millis By reacting to every cough and fart , they succeeded in closing down the flotilla operation. This was achieved by close cooperation not just with the USA but Greece and Turkey too .
Councillors in west dunbartshire are finding out that boycott is a two way street .
The UCU is on the receiving end of a law suit . Hate preachers are interned awaiting deportation.
The actions of the Jewish one staters such as yourself are slowly being exposed to not just the Jewish community but the wider community .
1500 people attended the recent stand with israel conference , with workshops to teach how to combat the delegitimization process . It included a whole section on understanding and combatting the threat from within.
Your treachery and mendacity is slowly being exposed . The worm is finally turning

Yes, and these post-modern tourists made Israel look like paranoid Iran- or North Korea-lite.
I'm a two-stater. Like the people who attended the Bicom conference. Most of them know the settlements are toxic and that Israel cannot continue to be Jewish and democratic and hold on the the occupied West Bank. Those who think otherwise are treacherous anti-Zionists. And that includes you and the other mendacious marchers outside Ahava.

The fact is Israel can't win - if we had beaten up a few of the Flopilla nutjobs we would have been pilloried and a Goldstone enquiry would have been opened immediately. We`prevent the nutjobs from having a day out in Bethlehem where they can get the world's media to stage some nasty confrontations and we are compared to Iran and North Korea.
By the way Mllis the settlements are not toxic - all of land of israel belongs to the Jews if however to secure the immediate future of the Jews living in Israel a democratic decision is taken to allow the creation of an Arab terrorist state - which it will doubtless be to believe otherwise is naive in the extreme - in Judea and Samaria then so be it. However the Jews as a people will never give up their claim to the whole of the land promised to us - we are unable to do so and in the fullness of time it will be fully restored to us.

The Jews as a whole? You speak for Jews as a whole now? To keep Israel Jewish and democratic, it must end the occupation and start dismantling the toxic settlements. To use a contemporary analogy, if the Jewish people are News Corp, the settlements are the News of the World (and perhaps the Sunday Times, too, given what has been revealed today). The boil must be lanced to save Israel.

Wakey wakey
Your pals over at the boycott ahava / tesco pantomime are not interested in a two state solution . They take their lead from the nihilists of Hamas and the PA .
Either a big outright no , or ROR which means much the same .
You think that handing back the west bank for nixes like israel did with gaza will lead to peace , then you are living in a fantasy world .
I can't be bothered debating this with you ad nauseum . I'm signing you over to advisor . He has more patience with hopeless cases .

Harvey, you are doing the nihilists' and nutjobs' work for them. Handing over the occupied territories will help Israel. Holding on to them and not lancing the boil of the settlements will bring about israel's demise.

I never said Jews as a whole I said Jews as a people. As a people we were promised the Land of Israel - this is what so exercises the Arabs - because that is also what the Koran says. It's a fact which you are unable to deny. In any event no settlement will be dismantled unless and until a comprehensive peace agreement is signed - or are you advocating another unilateral idiocy like the expulsion of Jews from Gaza?
I never said I was not in favour of a two state solution I just pointed out that people like you are excrutiatingly naive in thinking that giving the Arabs another state in Judea and Samaria will be the end of it - if that was the case why did they continue attacking Israel when they held Judea Samaria and Gaza from 1948 to 1967? I wonder what your line is going to be should another Arab State be created and true to form they carry on their "resistance"? Dismantle toxic Tel Aviv? Retreat to the 1947 Partition Plan border? Do you not see the illogicality of it all?

So you now speak for Jews as a people. And promised by whom? Forget promises from real or imagined sources. The "withdrawal" from Gaza was idiotic because it was unilateral amd had the ultrerior motive of killing off any peace deal with the palestinians and perpetuate the occupation and the colonisation of the west bank
Time to get real and accept that if you want a Jewish state, Israel has to end the occupation nightmare.

And since no Israeli government has the courage or the will to stand up to the dictatorship of the settlers, it's quite probable that this attempt at Jewish sovereignty will go the way of previous ones - killed by zealots.

Well I had no doubt that you reject your religion you've proved that on more than one occasion however the Jews as a people were promised the Holy Land by the British in 1917 and by the League of Nations in 1922 yes the Jews as a people - now deny it.
You say get real and of course you speak for the Arabs who having successfully forced the creation of an Arab State in Judea and Samaria will thereafter live peaceably with a state it refuses to recognise as Jewish. I am sorry but I cannot see why you have so much difficulty in seeing what is so patently obvious - the Arabs as a people will never countennce an independent Jewish State in the Middle East - any that have done so have met a horrible end.