The pits

Advis3r - this is a tangled web you weave.

I'm glad though that at the end you seem to recognise the Palestinians' right to have their own state. I'm surprised though, in view of your recent anger at their quest to have their state recognised by the UN.

Ah - I see! What you mean is they're entitled to a state somewhere else, not in the West Bank where they currently live (under Israel's armed guards) in what you prefer to call Samaria etc.

Whatever, your posting above was as you say a response to mine on the Law of Return. I don't understand then why you didn't post it on that site, so that readers could be aware of what you're responding to. If you'd like to do that now, I'll be willing to respond to the points you are trying to make.

The reason why I started a new thread was because it is not possible to post a comment on an existing thread when the JC Office is closed you have to start a new thread. I am surprised I am able to post this because outside of Israel where I live it is still Yom Tov and the JC Office should in fact be closed.
You project I did not say they should be entitled to a state somewhere else. Whilst there are forceful arguments for denying them any state I realise as someone once said that the train has left the station and it appears too late to stop it now so we have to make the best of the situation. That does not mean that the Palestinians are not likely to miss an opportunity when it is handed to them or that I am in favour of allowing a terrorist failed state to be set up on our doorstep which is the only outcome I can see if they continue on their present path and allow Hmams to have any say in the governance of their state. Mr Rabin for all the left say made it abundantly clear that what he envisaged was some form of autonomy but certainly less than a state.
However in all that denying the Jews a right of return as you seem to be doing goes to the root of Arab intransigence - i.e. the denial of the Jewish People's connection to this land and the establishment of a fiction in its place that some time in history an Arab nation calling itself Palestinian had its homeland in what is now the modern state of Israel. If you want to post things like that all well and good but do not be surprised if you get labelled as an anti-Semite whatever religion to profess to be.

Walinets, the "Palestinians" (you mean Arabs who formerly lived in a mandated area called Palestine which was never a state, not had any distinct Arab identity) are not "entitled" to a state at all - neither on moral, nor historical or legal grounds.

If you wish to create a second state for the Arabs who formerly lived in the mandated area called Palestine (in addition to Jordan whic was founded in 1922 for the very purpose), then fine. Just don't pretend there is either any legal or moral imperative for it.

Walinets, the term "West Bank" which you freely and mindlessly employ was invented by the Jordanians ("Palestinians") in 1948, when they illegally occupied Judea and Samaria - precisely to do away with those names and thus de-judify the area (hey simultaneously ethnically cleansed every last Jew living there).

I have an old newspaper photo on my screen which I've been trying to paste into this Comment but am unable to find out how one is supposed to do that - I can't even locate the Webmaster for the necessary guidance. If you can tell me how, I'd much appreciate it. In the meantime, I'll just describe the photo.

The photo in a city street shows three soldiers with rifles. They are covering an old man with a walking stick who is following two younger men pushing an apparently home-made trolley. The trolley is laden with household items - three or more rolled-up carpets, what looks like bundled curtains, boxes and bags, all tied on with thick string. The caption reads: "Marched out of town: Three Hagana soldiers escort three Palestinian Arabs expelled from Haifa on 12 May 1948".

I really cannot see, amber, how these three escorted civilians are 'ethhnically cleansing every last Jew living there'.

Advis3r - you talk about "the denial of the Jewish People's connection to this land and .... a fiction in its place that some time in history an Arab nation calling itself Palestinian had its homeland in what is now the modern state of Israel..."

I do not deny the Jewish people's historic connection with this land. But if having had 'a connection' with a territory back in history is a justification for living there now, then why shouldn't people who also have a historic connection (i.e., they also used to live there) - why shouldn't they have a similar right? You cannot, for instance, deny that that very ancient Temple on the Mount also had 'a connection' with today's Palestinian Arabs, can you? Not to mention all those Arabs whose families have lived there since, in the land the British occupying power called 'Palestine' back in the 1920's.
I'm quite in favour of Jews living in the land recently re-named 'Israel'. I just don't think they have a right to pretend no-one else has had any right to live there, even though those folk's families HAVE actually lived there for several generations whereas today's Israeli Jews are basically immigrants from many other countries. And the fact that we Jews' recent forebears have experienced vicious ill-treatment by the Nazis, merits the world's sympathy but DOESN'T merit expulsion of another people from their territory.

I must finish for the moment. But I suggest, Adv3, that you go back to my original posting on this to see my subsequent comparisons with America and its hugely displaced historic Red Indian native population...

I'm back now. Just a small response to Adv3 I missed out in my hurry.
"...in all that denying the Jews a right of return as you seem to be doing.... If you want to post things like that all well and good but do not be surprised if you get labelled as an anti-Semite...."

I do object to this label 'anti-Semite' which people like you hurl at anyone who disagrees with you. I do think such denyers of reality like you actually warrant the 'anti-Semite' label yourselves, because ultimately, if you go on and on behaving unjustly as you do towards Palestinians, then anger towards Israel's actions will INCREASE anti-Semitism throughout the world - as it is already doing. In short, I must regard people with your loud but self-blinding views - and cynical avoidance of genuine peace negotiations - as the real anti-Semites.