Yitzchak Rabin - 15 Years


By Avraham Reiss
October 30, 2010
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What follows was written some 10 days ago. This evening, motzei Shabat, as I write the left are holding yet another televised "Festival Rabin" in central Tel Aviv (this despite their declaration last week, mentioned further on on this article). The speeches are all political, the Prime Minister is attacked, Shimon Peres disgraced his presidency by perpetuating the accusations against the entire right at the time of Rabin's assassination (and Peres was the man whom Rabin called in his autobiography "an incessant underminer"!)

For an independant view of Rabinization, before you read what I have written below, read The Jerusalem Post's Sarah Honig at:
http://www.jpost.com/Home/Article.aspx?id=192292

Just one quote: "In Rabin’s case too, the Left spins sham narratives."
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Today Israel marks 15 years since Yitzchak Rabin's assassination by Yigal Amir. Since I have gone on record as being right-wing in my political opinions, and since Rabin's murder was political, let me say at the start that in my opinion Amir should not be alive today: he should have been executed for murder, if not for regicide (by halacha, Israeli Prime Ministers are considered kings).

Radio and TV are devoting the day to various aspects of Rabin's life and death. At the opposite end of what I have written in the previous paragraph, Amir's wife, Larissa Trimbobler (someone once joked that she preferred to marry a murderer rather than to continue with her weird surname ..) was quoted as saying that deep public discussion should be devoted to the murder, since it might lead to the conclusion that her husband's actions were justified. Naturally, nobody takes this seriously; the only discussion I heard on Reshet Bet was regarding whether or not her opinion should have been published at all. Freedom of the press, etc etc.

Rabin's murder divided the country into two factions - left and right. The left, as they say in America, went postal - on a rampage against the right in general, and against religious people who wear knitted kipot like myself in particular. And if you think this wore off after a time, a couple of years ago Israeli publicist Yair Lapid claimed that the destruction of Gush Katif - a large proportion of whose residents were religious - was an exacting of revenge for Rabin's murder. I never saw a denial or repudiation of that statement (although I have a different opinion which hinges on various aspects of Ariel Sharon's behaviour, but he is not the subject here.)

For the last 14 years Rabin's yarzheit has always been marked by a huge gathering in Rabin Square (which was so renamed after his death from the Kings of Israel Square). The square is said to contain some 250,000 people, and so far has been full every year.

But this year the organisers - headed by Rabin's daughter, Dalia - have said that there will be no more annual gatherings there, since they have found that public interest in Rabin is waning, that the young know little or nothing of him, which has naturally led to accusations against the education system for not teaching Rabin's "legacy".

I put the word "legacy" (in Hebrew: moreshet) in quotes because it is probably the chief cause of the failure (according to Rabin supporters) to afford Rabin his correct place in the public awareness.

I place doubt on the very word "legacy". I don't think Rabin had one. Yet every year since his death, his anniversary has been marked by followers building up his so-called legacy by attributing more and more characteristics to said legacy, until he was beginning to acquire the qualities of either a Messiah or a Superman. I could see the balloon slowly inflating, until it was clear to me that one day it would burst. Well it hasn't exactly burst, but it has sprung one hell of a leak. Rabin's followers have wisely identified this in advance, and in a smooth damage-control public relations spin have spared themselves in advance the embarrassment of a half-empty Rabin Square, and announced that in future his yarzheit would be commemorated in a different, as-yet-to-be-determined fashion, thus skipping over the decline in Rabin's posthumous popularity, and placing the blame on others.

While writing this, I've just heard on the radio someone claming that Rabin did not intend the path laid out by the "legacy" currently attributed to him.

I remember the day of Rabin's funeral; he lay in state in front of the Knesset, and people passed his coffin in silent tribute. Since I live within walking distance from the Knesset, I had intended to do so myself, despite the fact that I objected to almost everything Rabin had done as P.M., as an expression of my disgust at his murder. However, I heard famous TV commentator Haim Yavin report the lying-in-state, and then asked rhetorically "are not all those passing his coffin in fact expressing identification with his political direction". That did it: those numbers I was not prepared to swell. I did not go.

If one were to compile a legacy for Rabin based on objective historical fact, it would perforce have to contain 3 negative points regarding Rabin:

(1) In 1948 he was responsible for firing on - and sinking - the Lechi arms ship, the Altalena.

(2) From Wikipedia: "In the days leading up to the (Six Day) war, it was reported that Rabin suffered a nervous breakdown and was unable to function." (His wife Leah acknowledged this in a newspaper interview in 1992).

(3) as Prime minister in 1977, he lost control of his government, lost the subsequent general election, which led to Menachem Begin's ascent as Prime Minister.

In retrospect, I don't think that Rabin was a bad person (whereas Sharon, whom I supported for more than 20 years, including while serving two reserve spells of IDF duty in Lebanon, I finally regarded as evil because of what he did to Gush Katif).

As I have said, I objected to almost everything Rabin did (except for lighting the entire highway between Yerushalayim and Tel Aviv), but he should be examined in a very historical context, which in my way of thinking includes lessons learned from history starting with Joshua and ending with Kings II, during the most of which time Israel was fighting with its neighbours. Rabin had no religious education; his mother was nicknamed "Red Rosa" because of her extreme leftist opinions, which had no place for religion. I believe that Rabin wanted to bring peace to the region. But I still think that his Oslo agreement (with which very few Israelis still agree) was - simply put: stupid. I once sat down and figured that I personally know at least ten families, a member of each of whom was murdered as a direct result of the Oslo agreement which was passed in the Knesset by one or two votes only, after Rabin bribed at least one opposition member, and because of Shas's greed for money.

May he rest in peace. Which is more than he left us.

COMMENTS

telegramsam

30 October, 2010 - 20:12

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His mother was "Red Rosa"? Isn't the Jewish view that even if the avot achlu boser, shinei habnanim should not tikheina (Yirmiyahu 31:29). So why judge him on his mother? Isn't the Jewish way to leave the judging to hakadosh baruch hu? Mi samcha? WHo appointed you?
The speeches were political because the murder was political, not because Yigal Amir was from Hezrlia.


Avraham Reiss

30 October, 2010 - 20:22

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telegramscum - use your name if you expect a reply. And knock off Jewish quotes, you haven't got the foggiest idea what you are talking about.


telegramsam

30 October, 2010 - 20:31

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Avraham, are you abusive and defensive because you've been found out and busted? Jews do not judge. We leave that in the hands of the Almighty. When you reach 120 years, im yirtzeh Hashem, you'll find out.
And I don't see you getting all hot under the collar with Yvetta (not her real name) or Advis3r (not his real name either). It's called hypocrisy.


Avraham Reiss

30 October, 2010 - 20:36

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Tscum, the people you mentioned don't hide behind their names to attack other people. They discuss ideas. That is not a problem.
Again, knock off Judaic references - you are a total ignoramous on that subject.

Coward - sign your name.


Anthony Posner

30 October, 2010 - 20:57

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Av,

If a religious nutter (Amir) believes that Rabin was hell-bent on destroying Israel, doesn't he have the right to do so? I am shocked that you haven't elaborated on that point.


Anthony Posner

30 October, 2010 - 21:07

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typo,
doesn't he have the right to kill him?

(surely following some extreme religious views, Amir was obliged to murder Rabin. Amir certainly had the support of some Rabbis on the right.)


Avraham Reiss

30 October, 2010 - 21:21

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Anthony,

the decision to kill someone is a Halachic one. It usually requires the Sanhedrin, but if I remember correctly a convened court of 23 (Beth Din) can also impose a death sentence.

Neither of those exist today.

So from the point of view of halacha, nobody can execute a death sentence today. Please knock off the leftist quote "some rabbis from the right" - give names or stop quoting. The left here have been doing it for years - with never any proof of even one name. Its one of their methods of political and anti-religious incitement.

In Israel, the only legal way to execute someone is by a non-religious court decision. If I'm not mistaken Israeli law does have provisions for imposing a death sentence (Eichman was executed here) but a general decision has been in force for many decades, not to impose it.

And to get back to Amir. It IS possible to declare that according to halacha soemone is DESERVING of death. The example given at the time of Rabin's murder was Din Rodef, which I don't want to get into here because it would take too long to explain properly. BUT, there is a difference between declaring halachically that
someone is DESERVING of death, and actually IMPLEMENTING that decision - which cannot be done today.

Halachically, Amir has no leg to stand on for his actions.


Anthony Posner

30 October, 2010 - 21:33

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Av,

It is evident that you were extremely ambivalent about Rabin.

You finish the article on a very sour note "May he rest in peace. Which is more than he left us." Clearly, it reveals that you are unresolved about his death. You can't, in truth, really make up your mind, because you are on the right and religious. You know that it is wrong to murder but you are spiritually and politically torn because, in your mind, Rabin has endangered Israel.


telegramsam

30 October, 2010 - 21:36

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Avraham you have no monopoly on Jewish sources. Neither of us has. And the great thing about anonymity is that you can play silly name games all you like but as I have nothing invested in the name it makes no difference. It just makes you look abusive.


Anthony Posner

30 October, 2010 - 21:37

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Av,
"some rabbis on the right"

I haven't got the book in front of me. There is a very good account written by two Israeli journalists. I read it years ago and have forgotten theri names.


telegramsam

30 October, 2010 - 21:38

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Avraham you have no monopoly on Jewish sources. Neither of us has. And the great thing about anonymity is that you can play silly name games all you like but as I have nothing invested in the name it makes no difference. It just makes you look abusive.


Anthony Posner

30 October, 2010 - 21:40

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Av,
You write:

"The example given at the time of Rabin's murder was Din Rodef, which I don't want to get into here because it would take too long to explain properly."

I doubt that you are a Din Rodef expert.


Anthony Posner

30 October, 2010 - 21:44

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I have gound the book "Murder in the name of God" by Karpin and Friedman.

Have you read it?


telegramsam

30 October, 2010 - 21:44

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Avraham you have no monopoly on Jewish sources. Neither of us has. And the great thing about anonymity is that you can play silly name games all you like but as I have nothing invested in the name it makes no difference. It just makes you look abusive.


telegramsam

30 October, 2010 - 21:50

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There'san interview in Fridays haaretz in Hebrew with avigdor askin, the person behind the pulsa de'noura ceremony which was backed by several rabbis and influenced amir. Askin shows no remorse and is seeking ties with far right and even antisemitic groups in Europe, the us and south Africa. Seems seeking these kind of ties is a growing trend from which British Jewry is not immune.


Anthony Posner

30 October, 2010 - 22:05

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Pg 129 Karpin and Friedman;

"Thus all the evidence clearly suggests sought rabbinical confirmation that Rabin fell under Din Rodef. Whether or not he obtained it, and from whom, was not discovered, because the authorities were loath to pursue the matter."

And of course, Amir received support from religious nutters in America.


Anthony Posner

30 October, 2010 - 22:16

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Pg 160 Karpin and Friedman

"Nov 5th 1995, the day after Rabin's murder happened to be the 5th anniversary of Kahane's murder. In Brooklyn the usual somber ceremonies for Kahane turned into celebrations. Funds were established for Amir's defence... Rabbi Mordecahi Friedman extolled Amir, and Kahane's successors appeared on cable TV to salute him."

Pg 161.
"In Dec 1995 Israel's security ministry banned Rabbi Hecht and six other American Jews from entering Israel classifying them as security risks.'


Avraham Reiss

30 October, 2010 - 22:18

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Anthony, I'm quoting you in full for my reply:
"Av, It is evident that you were extremely ambivalent about Rabin.
You finish the article on a very sour note "May he rest in peace. Which is more than he left us." Clearly, it reveals that you are unresolved about his death. You can't, in truth, really make up your mind, because you are on the right and religious. You know that it is wrong to murder but you are spiritually and politically torn because, in your mind, Rabin has endangered Israel.
"
-----
I deny ambivalence. Amir was a murderer and should have been executed. Period.

Rabin was Shimon Peres's poodle, totally influenced by him, made some of the stupidest moves in Jewish history, and as a result has the death of hundreds of Israelis on his hands.

But all of this did not give ANYONE the right to murder him.

Sorry, but NO ambivalence.

Re your last quote from Karpin etc: Karpin is a leftist, and the statement you quote: "Thus all the evidence clearly suggests sought rabbinical confirmation that Rabin fell under Din Rodef" is bullshit because it says nothing. What is "all the evidence"? None provided.

"I doubt that you are a Din Rodef expert." - I know enough about it for the purposes of this level of discussion, and could get well up to speed within an hour or so were it neccessary. I have all the relevant halachic material here in my study. But because - as I have stated - it was not a justification for Rabbin's murder - I don't need to go into it further.


Avraham Reiss

30 October, 2010 - 22:22

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Re your quote from Pg 160 Karpin and Friedman - that discusses American Rabbis. They don't interest me at all. The left here accused RAbbis here in Isarel.
Anyway, whatever Karpin writes requires proof by me.

(He once made a film about Rabin which inadvertently (from his point of view) showed that a majority of Isarelis were against Rabin's policies. But that is totally irrelevant to the ongoing discussion here.


Anthony Posner

30 October, 2010 - 22:26

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Pg 131 Karpin and Friedman;

" Soon after Oslo, Rabin's opponents in the American Jewish community began branding him a traitor and a rodef; they also called him a Nazi.... Orthodox rabbis
and right-wing radicals called for Rabin's disposal. Avital (Israel's consul general in New York) was apppalled; the wall of hostility between the orthodox jews of New York and the official envoys of the State of Israel grew higher."


Anthony Posner

30 October, 2010 - 22:28

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Av,
Have you read the Karpin and Friedman book?


Avraham Reiss

30 October, 2010 - 22:30

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Why would I read a book by a reporter I regard as unreliable?


Anthony Posner

30 October, 2010 - 22:37

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What books have you read on Rabin's murder?


Anthony Posner

30 October, 2010 - 22:52

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So you can't provide me with a more "reliable" text than Karpin and Friedman? (But of course, Karpin and Friedman'sbook is "unreliable" and not worth reading)

And you conclude "So tell me: do you really think I want to read any book about Rabin?"

You actually write a blog about Rabin's murder but you are not really interested in why it occurred!

What sort of mentality is that?


Anthony Posner

30 October, 2010 - 23:12

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Av,

These are your words:

"So tell me: do you really think I want to read any book about Rabin?"

Clearly, you are not interested in reading ANY book about Rabin and his murder.


Avraham Reiss

30 October, 2010 - 23:16

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Anthony, you are obviously some kind of Rabin fanatic.

After the Yom Kipur war I didn't read books about it - I was IN IT. The same with Rabin's murder - we were all IN IT.

So get this for the last time: no book about Rabin will tell me something (verified, absolute truth) that I don't know.

There's probably a name for someone obsessed with murder as you obviously are - but I don't know it.


Avraham Reiss

30 October, 2010 - 23:20

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Anthony,
its just occured to me: are you by any chance marketing books about Rabin? Is THAT your angle?


Anthony Posner

30 October, 2010 - 23:34

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Av,

It is important to try and to understand why Rabin was murdered. To my mind, it was one of the most important events in modern Jewish history and worthy of consideration. If that makes me obsessed with murder, or a Rabin fanatic, so be it.

Of course, I will let readers of this blog draw their own conclusions about the various arguments that we have put forward.

Moreover, because you were in the Yom Kippour War does not mean that you really know much about it. My father served in WW2 and only knew bits and bobs about it. You should not underestimate the value of books.

Your personnel recollections are worth recounting to friends and family.... "This is what I was doing when Kennedy/Rabin/Lennon was murdered etc". But, you should certainly think twice before blogging them (although it did lead to some sort of discussion and should, perhaps, not be totally discounted).


Avraham Reiss

31 October, 2010 - 09:32

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Anthony, should I require advice on how to blog, I'd probably approach someone more seasoned and slightly less obsessive on the subject ...

You can't slow down discussions by demanding a pre-read booklist. Outside of South Africa people don't live that way.


Anthony Posner

31 October, 2010 - 09:36

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Av,

no point blogging about Rabin when you write:

"So tell me: do you really think I want to read any book about Rabin?"

The first rule about blogging is to be interested in your subject. If you aren't the you are wasting everybody's time.


Avraham Reiss

31 October, 2010 - 22:22

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Anthony,
if I lived alone in the outer space cultural desert that is south africa, I'd probably be as hysterically book-dependant as you.

However, since I live in the very center of the world, I get all the information I need, plus more than I want without reading books by intellectually dishonest leftist reporters.

My information is thus far mor balanced and far less biased than yours on most subjects.

Don't presume to tell me where my interests lie.


Anthony Posner

1 November, 2010 - 03:18

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Av,
I will leave others to read the above comments and decide on the merits of the various arguments.


Yehuda Erdman

18 November, 2010 - 15:07

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Mr Posner If you are trying to somehow find justification for Yigal Amir shooting one of the greatest of Israel's sons in modern times (in the back more over!) by some sort of retrospective the end justifies the means sort of "logic", you should be very ashamed as a Jew to harbour such thoughts. If on the other hand you were gently pulling Mr Reiss' leg, that would be a different matter.


Yehuda Erdman

18 November, 2010 - 15:13

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OK I now understand you are indeed mocking some of Mr Reiss' more outrageous statements which he quotes totally out of the context of the events that took place in e.g. 1948 and 1967. He also is highly selective and does not mention that Yitzchak Rabin was deputy to Yigal Alon in the Palmach and that it was in fact the Palmach and not thousands of Yeshiva bochurs who saved Tzfat, and relieved the siege of Jerusalem via the Burma Road. Who are you Mr Reiss to impute the achievements of a great man on the basis of some nasty innuendo on your part?
In our Jewish tradition he who takes away the good name of someone it is as though he has murdered him.
Try denying that one.


Yehuda Erdman

18 November, 2010 - 15:16

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If you state that that no book will tell you something you don't know (about Rabin), it reveals you to be a bigot.


Avraham Reiss

18 November, 2010 - 15:32

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" it was in fact the Palmach and not thousands of Yeshiva bochurs who saved Tzfat, and relieved the siege of Jerusalem via the Burma Road. Who are you Mr Reiss to impute the achievements of a great man on the basis of some nasty innuendo on your part?
In our Jewish tradition he who takes away the good name of someone it is as though he has murdered him.
Try denying that one."

How do you know that the Yeshiva bochur's studies didn't provide the spiritual strength for victory? You meretz type think you are G-d's gift to intellectual humanity - you don't believe in spiritual aspects, because you weren't given the background to understand them.

"Who are you Mr Reiss to impute the achievements of a great man on the basis of some nasty innuendo on your part?"

Achievements? Great man? Nasty innuendo?

ACHIEVMENTS:
-Firing on the Altalena.
- Nervous collapse on the eve of the 6 Day War.
- Losing the vobernment to Begin
- Dividing the country and the Nation with the most stupid act in Jewish history - OSLO - with the subsequent deaths of hundreds if not more, by terrorists.

GREAT MAN
HA! HA! HA!
- a member of his own party wants to take his picture off the wall already.

In WHAT was his "greatness" expressed.

NASTY INNUENDO
Name something I wrote that wasn't true.

"If you state that that no book will tell you something you don't know (about Rabin), it reveals you to be a bigot."

FOOL! Everyone who doesn't read a book about Rabin is a bigot? How many books have YOU read on the subject? Well, you have to, because you are one of those self-pretentious xxxxx's who won't make Aliyah because it's "not convenient", and sit sniping and hero-worshipping people who DO live in Israel,simultaneously.

"In our Jewish tradition he who takes away the good name of someone it is as though he has murdered him.
Try denying that one."

Again - FOOL! No meretz type will teach me anything about Judaism - you people are practically idol-worshippers. RAbin had a good name? Have you seen Karpin's film from Israel TV which claimed that half the copuntry hated Rabin? No? You didn't see it? BIGOT!


Avraham Reiss

18 November, 2010 - 15:33

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Hey people, guess what? This meretz type has just accused me of murdering Rabin.

How sick can these groupies get?

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