Woodcraft Folk & Children in the Mix


By Isca Stieglitz
July 9, 2010
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Woodcraft Folk is of course entitled to pass motions on whatever they like, but as a parent I baulk about involving children at meetings such as this - see photo. I've endeavoured to shield my daughter from the more contentious areas of politics; she has her childhood to live. She is lucky enough to live in a country which, on the whole, allows her to have a childhood, when many do not.

Political awareness like sex, puberty and growing up in general has to come from a position of age appropriate knowledge and this just doesn't fit the bill. An adult struggles enough.

I'm worried that yet another group do not seem to engage with all angles of an issue. It seems 'regressive' not to analyse carefully all the evidence available around the 'Flotilla' and like incidents around the world and not just around Israel. There is plenty of evidence. I'd like to think 'Woodcraft Folk' did scrutinise the evidence and context, but I fear not.

Again, I would like to see if 'Woodcraft' have boycotted any other countries which they feel have terrible human rights track records; we can all think of many, including the activities of Hamas towards children and its adult citizens. Again, I fear not.

'Regressive' is somewhat ironic especially given Woodcraft's own tag line:

"This movement is a fundamental part of progressive Britain and a progressive world."

http://www.woodcraft.org.uk/news/article/4657

COMMENTS

Joshua18

Fri, 07/09/2010 - 13:00

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"The Chair of General Council" of this organisation is Lloyd Russell-Moyle. To understand just how extreme his views on Israel are, I suggest you read the following piece:

Freedom next time revealing a global "double speak"

http://russell-moyle.co.uk/2009/01/freedom-next-time-revealing-global.ht...

Source:

The Woodcraft Folk

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Woodcraft_Folk

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Another point

The Woodcraft Folk is a registered charity. Does anyone know if this move to boycott Israel affects this status in any way?


Joshua18

Fri, 07/09/2010 - 13:57

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Interesting post and comments about this at Harry's Place:

http://hurryupharry.org/2010/07/09/woodcraft-folk-%E2%80%93-yes-to-the-c...


Isca Stieglitz

Fri, 07/09/2010 - 13:58

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@Joshua18
read with interest; what can you say?!

The official slogan of The Woodcraft Folk is "Span the world with friendship", it also uses "Education for Social Change" in its publicity and also constitutional documents.

With this in mind, why couldn't they have done something 'progressive' and 'educational for social change'? More in keeping with the 'Woodcraft' mantra surely.

I'm not sure of the in depth credentials of all of the groups below, but it strikes me that a far better thing to do would have been to show direct affiliation and support for these kinds of projects.

Children at politically 'hot' events makes the hair on my neck rise up and you can all guess the related imagery which goes through my head. Children at rallies; in training camps (in some countries); on 'hot' demonstrations; you cannot filter the things that they must hear, see and witness. To me it is a form child abuse, whoever you are, wherever you are.

http://www.childrenofpeace.org.uk/peace-charity-projects.htmlGivat Haviva's Jewish-Arab Center for Peace

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projects_working_for_peace_among_Arabs_and_...

Grassroots projects
Hewar Center for Peace and Development
Green Action
Olives of Peace
Neve Shalom-Wahat Al-Salam (Oasis of Peace)
Hamidrasha Jewish-Arab Beit Midrash
Ir Shalem co-existence program
Seeds of Peace

Education
MEET - Middle East Education through Technology
Hand in Hand Bilingual Arab-Jewish Schools
The Institute for Circlework

These projects are genuinely trying, against some difficult odds, to "Span their world with friendship", Woodcraft may well take note and reach out to them.


Joshua18

Fri, 07/09/2010 - 14:11

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"Children at politically 'hot' events makes the hair on my neck rise up and you can all guess the related imagery which goes through my head."

This is the image that springs to my mind:

Hitler Youth


Joshua18

Fri, 07/09/2010 - 14:12

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Isca Stieglitz

Fri, 07/09/2010 - 14:28

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You took the picture right out of my head!

Child abuse of this kind, and the quieter more insidious kind, goes on all ove the world, from South America to Africa to the Far East, as we know.

Here are some links of those related to the subject that 'Woodcraft' have chosen in Israel-Palestine; including an Israeli-settler one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_suicide_bombers_in_the_Israeli%E2%80%...

http://ivarfjeld.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/jw_children_rafah.jpg

http://www.gunsforthechildren.org/images/Foriegn%20Kids%20with%20Guns/ch...

http://www.childsoldiersglobalreport.org/content/israel


Jonathan Hoffman

Fri, 07/09/2010 - 14:43

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http://cifwatch.com/2010/07/04/the-lies-of-lauren-booth/

And Lauren Booth has no compunction about brainwashing her kids ...


Isca Stieglitz

Fri, 07/09/2010 - 15:50

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@Jonathan - the problem with this kind of, seemingly ego-laden, tubthumping is that the rhetoric is instantly believed and yet there is no way of truly knowing what is and isn't true without proper and reasoned evidence gathering and analysis.

Of course people should be able to give speeches without a bibliography, but a speaker should always give recourse to citations and sources.

This kind of thing really scares me, from anyone, by anyone. I simply feel frightened. I sincerely hope her children or any young children hear this kind of talk.

Woodcraft caveat:
just to be clear, my links & opinions on others' links are not to imply that 'Woodcraft' is like the hitler youth, or recruiting children for training; or that it would ever reach that end. I hope that is obvious. I do apologise if anyone thought this.

I was just trying to say how scary it is, for me personally, to hear the types of 'quiet' beginnings that these activities have all started from. Thinking out loud, if you will, and letting you in on my train of thought.

I do hope 'Woodcraft' has a splinter group, who will try and reverse this decision and do something more kind and in keeping with its own mantras.

Ok, so I just noticed the use of the word 'splinter' on rereading :oD


mattpryor

Fri, 07/09/2010 - 16:07

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@Isca: Although I too find it very depressing and frightening, I have something positive to say about all this.

In the 1930s the same thing was happening - in the UK as well as Europe. I think we all know that conflict is coming again and we are heading for dark times. I think maybe once every generation or two everyone just goes mad, and these are the early warning signs.

But on the bright side, if it wasn't for the internet we'd be completely unaware of these developments. That gives us an advantage and a responsibility.


Isca Stieglitz

Fri, 07/09/2010 - 16:28

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@Matt: thanks, needed to hear that. I might know it to be true, but always good to be reminded. It chivvies me up.

@Johnathan: the link didn't work for me and I looked at the wrong video. Just saw the one you meant; I'm just glad for the element of 'sarcasm' in it, it helped me over seeing her girls' performance. Unthinkable, it is something I would never do.

I wish you could all meet my daughter, she is so aware and compassionate, but of course I protect her from extreme rhetoric and imagery i.e. the adult arena.


Joshua18

Fri, 07/09/2010 - 17:16

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"just to be clear, my links & opinions on others' links are not to imply that 'Woodcraft' is like the hitler youth, or recruiting children for training; or that it would ever reach that end."

They might not be training children to round up Jews or run death camps, but the end result of deligitimising the Jewish state in this manner will be pretty much the same. These individuals are in their own way every bit as bad as Nazis. They are scum. I don't want Jewish children to have to breathe the same air as these people, and that is one of the chief reasons why I am such a committed Zionist.


sesom (not verified)

Fri, 07/09/2010 - 18:35

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They are scum. I don't want Jewish children to have to breathe the same air as these people, and that is one of the chief reasons why I am such a committed Zionist.
That sums you up mate doesn't it?

You are quite happy for Palestinians to go through hell on a daily basis , but as long as your people have their swimming pools on the settlements that's all that matters. You are disgusting.


Joshua18

Fri, 07/09/2010 - 19:32

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Leaving aside the lies, the malevolence and the wild innacuracies of your post, it is a fact that one can support the Palestinians without engaging in anti-Semitism. That is a simple fact that has escaped the notice of you and your fellow travellers. The reason is quite simple: virtually all anti-Zionism is actually motivated by hatred of Jews, so it is not surprising that manifestations of anti-Zionism are themselves invariably anti-Semitic.

What is particularly abhorrent is that so few years after the Holocaust, Europeans are once again boycotting Jews. They have learned absolutely nothing from their bloody and evil history. Nowhere is that more so in perfidious Britain, a nation that collaborated both directly and indirectly in the genocide of the Jews.

You are a coward. If you were really concerned about human rights you would be boycotting Britain and the US which are responsible for the deaths of many thousands of innocent civilians over the last few years in Serbia, Iraq and Aghanistan. When China rapes Tibet and murders a million people, you say nothing. When Russia commits genocide and levels whole cities, you say nothing. When France collaborates in genocide in Africa, you say nothing. When Britain murders hundreds of Argentinian sailors, you say nothing. No, your soul objective is to deligitimise and destroy the Jewish state. You do it because you know in the current anti-Semitic climate you will get away with it. You are a thug with a broad yellow stripe running up your back. And given the apple rarely falls far from the tree, I can just imagine the kind of despicable people who raised you. I can smell them from here.


Harvey

Sat, 07/10/2010 - 11:55

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Joshua

Bit late in the day but well done for seeing off the latest troll infestation. You hit all the right notes .

Isca

It is quite apparent that you are a manifestly good person. You believe that there must be more then meets the eye in organisations such as the Woodcraft Folk and that it must be possible to reach out to some of the perhaps less politically hot membership. Hence your mention of and need of splinter groups [ a la Green Party] .

I believe you are in danger of a little too much over analysis . Sometimes,perhaps most times in life you need to trust your instincts and first impressions and realise that what is on the label is what is in the package.

For me , Woodcraft is something of a sinister cult. It seeks to indoctrinate young impressionable minds in far left socialist ideology under the pretext of living with nature ,camping ,fresh air ,etc .

This policy was first realised and adopted by Hitler and his Hitler Youth Movement prior to WW2. Get them when they are young !

Woodcraft Folk among other things is anti capitalist . Ultimately it seeks the removal of the capitalist Western way of life and its replacement by some form of regimented Socialist government perhaps an "improvement" on the failed Communist model. It seeks to create a vanguard through its Youth Programmes who will eventually achieve this goal.

There are plenty of brain washing cults out there . Scientology is one . It makes money . That is its Raison d'etre.Woodcraft Raison is political .

Woodcraft Folk is a fascist subversive institution. It is also antisemitic in that it calls for the end of the state of Israel as a Jewish state .It does this through the indoctrination of children.

My advice would be to leave well alone .Do not expose yourself or your daughter to its poison. You will not make an iota of difference .Save your energies for more worth while causes.


Isca Stieglitz

Sat, 07/10/2010 - 15:17

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Thanks for the concern, really appreciated. You're alright though, we're not members and never will be. We did attend an 'open day' once; not for us! Felt a similar uncomfortableness around some 'Steiner' groups too, but the kindergarten I attended moons ago, was ok. I couldn't put my finger on it, (? similar basis in revivalist teutonism as Woodcraft), but just felt it wasn't for my daughter or me...she had other ideas!

I've always felt the hair go up on my neck with this kind of organisation. If I have time, I will look into it and check out all of your views. To be honest Woodcraft isn't on my radar, I just got worried when I saw that kids were involved.

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