why i am not an anti-semite.

why you are an anti-semite.

you don't realize it but you are.

you only condemn Israel.

you do not blog about other countries.

you single Israel out 27/7/365.

you are obsessed by Israel.

you write about nothing else.

you use double standards when you blog Israel.

you are an anti-semite.

I'm not sure that he is, BD.
I think that unlike the obscenely hostile Tom Brafman and John "Gold" he's a well-meaning person who's been taken in by all the hateful propaganda in which the mainstream media indulges regarding Israel.
I have every confidence that he is as forthright in denouncing Islamic terror, and all those many abuses against life and limb in countries such as Iran, Saudi, and China, which are too numerous to itemise.
When he comes onto this site spouting half-baked nonsense about Israel, he is in no danger of any more than a ribbing and a joshing.
I suspect he knows that were he to ventures onto Muslim sites to diss Islamic abuses and Hamas/Hezbollah he would get his head handed to him (metaphorically speaking, of course).
We are a soft target.

Yvetta,

When somebody (aka Steveabott)

(1) only blogs, obsessively (24/7/365) and highly critically about Israel and

(2) never posts, here or elsewhere, about other countries/regimes and

(3) judges Israel, on an entirely different basis, to other countries which have appalling human rights records, in the Middle East and beyond,

then, in my book, he is being anti-semitic.

I have to say, that having now seen his post where he castigates JH for calling the odious Tom Brafman " traitor" he has enormous effrontery. He is not a Jew. He has no idea how deeply offensive Tom Brafman is. He should butt out.

Yvetta.

As you have slandered me, I would like to say that personally I find you and your views deeply repulsive, and full of ethnocentric racism (not to mention an unhealthy dose of smugness)...

Duly noted ;~)
'ere, get stuck into this manifestation of the modernist's art:
Debate on Wife Beating as instructed in Quran
www.youtube.com
Debate on Wife Beating on Qatar TV. The Quran allows men to beat their wifes. After watching this debate, you will no longer be able to claim ignorance of Islam. QURAN 4:34 - "Men have authority over women ...

I'm sure there are quite a few 'frum' wife beaters out there....
I mean, some make woman travel on separate buses, shave all their hair off and then wear awful looking wigs - it wouldn't be at all surprising to know, that quite a few are getting a beating in the home also...

There are many unhealthy things written in the 'Mishna and Talmud' also, so demonising another race, and their religion, is no worse than anti-semitism....

The bottom line is there are good and bad people in every religion, and in every country - no religion or country has a franchise on that.

And i'm sure that when G-d eventually gets round to judging everyone, there will be many surprises of who's living in bliss, and those in torment...

BD. if you insist on maintaining your position that i am anti-semitic, in the face of all the evidence to the contrary on this site, you are in real danger of so diminishing the meaning of the term, that when you apply it to real anti-semites, it lacks the force it should have.

you are also making yourself look silly.

Gold, that's really rich, coming from such a self-declared xenophobe as you.

abbot, if you're not an anti-semite, you are an Israel hater - which in the end amounts to the same thing.

steveabbott,

I have outlined on this blog, and elsewhere, precisely why I believe that you are an anti-semite. Of course, it is your prerogative to disagree with my analysis and to conclude that I am making myself "look silly".

In the circumstances, others will have to decide on the merits of our arguments. We have stated our cases. The court of "public opinion" will now decide.

Amber.

I'm not a xenophobe..?
If you're referring to observation about America, then perhaps I forgot to mention that in spite of the obvious flaws in the country there are many positives too..
I would say that Israel could be accused of xenophobia - after all unless you're born from a certain ethnicity (or marry someone of that ethnicity), or alernatively convert to their state religion - they won't allow you to emmigrate there...

Imagine Christian countries like America or Britian saying to Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus or athiests - you're not of our ethnicity, so unless you convert to our religion you can't come live in our country....

"observation about America"? You mean moronic generalizations and stereotypes?

Your calim about Israel is wrong. Just wrong. Do some research. Now the palestinian areas, or Saudi, or Iran and Syria, yes they don't allow any non-Muslim immigration.

Ok perhaps I went slightly overboard to make the point regarding Americans, but the fundamental point is true that compared to Europeans, Americans generally aren't interested in politics - particularly foreign affairs....

Regarding Israel immigration, I've done heaps of research and know it be true and know of people that were discriminated because of their holding a different religion to the state...
You may not have noticed that Israel has a far right wing government? And which side of the political barometer do fascists and racists generally reside on?

I still think Steve is not an antisemite, just a patsy of the MSM.
This is interesting:
Learn more about Apartheid in The Middle East; go to http://tinyurl.com/ybvoqxg

That's easy Gold, the left. The Nazis were a left wing movement, as was Idi Amin, Pol Pot, Mao tse tung, Stalin, and every other mass murderer who believes in big government.

How many British people do you think can name the Prime Minister of France - their neighbour?

And if your "research" is anything to go by, it's not impressive. For example, there aren't 100 million people in the UK - so much for your deep knowledge about Israel - you don't even know your own country. Of course you ignore the point about many other countries taking an attitude of not allowing non-Muslims to immigrate.

amber. god i love this site! havent has to think so much since i did my global politics degree. i am not an israel hater. there are many countries i despise - but israel is not one of them. think of me as a concerned friend. as a matter of fact i am going to israel for the first time this year. any tips on where to go, and who to meet? will i be allowed to visit the west bank? gaza?

yvetta. who are the MSM?

BD. i hope its a jury trial!

steveabbott,

You actually have a degree? In politics?

I am quite shocked. I would have thought that you might have learnt something.

bd. indeed i do. starting another dgree course in nov - earth sciences. nothing like study to keep your mind open!

abbot, you are an Israel hater.

i am not an israel hater. there are many countries i despise - but israel is not one of them.

nothing i have ever blogged on this site would tell you that i hate israel.

in many ways i admire israel - i am looking forward to going there and seeing the country for myself.

abbot, you are an obsessive Israel hater. Why else are you here, siding with antisemites like eisner?

Shame on you.

Sreve, mainstream media, in this case including the Guardian, Independent, Channel Four, CNN, and the BBC, who are biased against Israel.

yvetta. yes, i have heard that a lot on this site, but also from one of my jewish friends (who doesn't agree with me on anything Israel btw), that the guiardian is an anti-semitic paper. yet i am mystified by the accusation. much as i am mystified by the BD's stuck record, accusation that i am an anti-semite myself.

is the economist anti-semitic in your view? or biased against Israel in any way?

Steve - excellent you are going to Israel. I'm sure you'll be impressed. One tip - don't do any driving LOL

BTW for the record, I do not think you are an anti-Semite. In fact, I think you have a sneaking admiration.

Go to Israel, travel widely, see what a free and ethnically diverse place it is. Talk to people freely about your views. There is a complete spectrum of opinion in Israel. Learn some history, read and keep an open mind.

I doubt you will change your views but if you moderate them just a smidgin and if you come back with respect for Israel, its achievements, its problems and its history then at least you'll have achieved something.

You should then visit Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon, maybe Saudi Arabia and certainly Iran. I'm sure that would broaden your horizions. but most importantly, join Viva Palestina or the Free Gaza Movement and see how those folks think and behave. That would then give you a balanced view of Israel and its enemies.

I can't wait for you to post after your vist to Israel and these other countries so you can compare the terror state of Israel to the wonderful countries that surround it.

"i believe that the jews are established in the land of Israel, and have right to live within the pre 1967 borders"

Why would anyone other than an anti-Semite be supportive of a land redistribution that makes Israel even smaller than it already is? In order to support it you'd have to think that Israel deserved to lose the land in the first place (1948) and didn't deserve to take it back in 1967. Which means you must think the Arabs were the righteous party in both wars.

Perhaps you could explain that to me if I'm wrong.

Personally I can live with the proposed borders of a future Palestinian state, but that doesn't mean I'm happy with it. I think it's extremely unfair and unjust in a historical context.

mattpryor -it really isn't good enough to call someone an anti-Semite just because you think they are wrong-headed about Israel's borders.

Of course, the 1967 borders were a ceasefire line, like the 1948 borders, because the Arab nations had not given up hope of destroying Israel militarily until 1973.

The West Bank was occupied by Jordan from 1948 until 1967 including East Jeruslaem from which they expelled its MAJORITY Jewish population and destroyed every synagogue and prevented Jews and Christians from worshipping at their holy places. Gaza was occupied by Egypt.

Despite the PLO being founded in 1964, neither Jordan nor Egypt sought to create a Palestinian state on the West Bank and Gaza. Had they managed to destroy Israel all the land west of the Jordan river would be part of Jordan. There would be no independent Palestinian state and no-one would care.

Many people are under the (false) impression that there was a Palestinian State and this land was part of it, as well as Israel. This is simply not true.

However, time and history move on; the Palestinians have become a nation from nothing in under 50 years and their rights seem to trump Jewish rights to a land in which they have a 3500 year history and attachement.

So the 1967 'borders' are no such thing, they were de facto borders until Jordan and Egypt and Syria attacked and they lost the land they were occupying. The 1967 'borders' or something approaching them are oonly tenable if Israel can trust its neighbours. As those neighbours still seek Israel's destruction you can understand why they are a bit worried about this.

Successive governments offered Arafat and Abbas over 90% of what they were asking for and even offered Israeli land in exchange for the settlements around Jerusalem but the Palestinians could not accept even what they were ostensibly asking for even when it was offered on a plate - the reason was that they didn't want a settlement because that would confer international legality on the borders and create Palestine as a sovereign nation having to abide by international law - and if you want to destroy your neighbour and take his land and have the world go along with this plan then such an outcome is not acceptable. You have to deny it was ever offered and blame Israel for the failure of the 'peace talks' and cover your crime with an Intifada.

I don't think I called him an anti-Semite Ray, I just don't quite understand how someone who a) doesn't hate Jews and b) is fully aware of the historical context would support making one of the world's smallest and most vulnerable countries, which is a refuge for one of the world's smallest and most vulnerable religions, even smaller.

"Why would anyone other than an anti-Semite be supportive of a land redistribution that makes Israel even smaller than it already is?"

As steve espouses this view he is, in your opinion, an anti-Semite, no?

I really don't want to defend views I am virulently opposed to, but don't bandy about the anti-Semite slur even by implication when it is not justified. It really does not help our cause.

I haven't read the Economist for years, Steve, so I can't comment. The Guardian is arguably in a league of its own as far as malevolence against Israel is concerned. The Independent is graced by the egregiously biased Robert Fisk. The BBC is like the proverbial curate's egg - "good in parts" - but Guerin, Bowen, Humphreys and others are almost nakedly hostile to Israel.

Ray - it has less to do with his opinion about the borders of a future magical peaceful Palestinian country and more to do with his obsessive monomania for posting anti-Israel comments and blogs on this website.

so anti-Israel = ani-Semitic? - sometimes, yes.

Monomania? Then I'm a monomaniac too because all I do is blog pro-Israel here and on my website.

Let's just challenge views and assertions with facts not insults.

... and that goes for BD too