Unbelievable


By Jenni Frazer
February 7, 2011
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So a high-ranking foreign diplomat comes to speak at a university campus. First the society which is hosting him backs down from the invitation: perhaps the society leadership has got wind of what is about to transpire.

Instead another student society offers to host the event. A lecture theatre is booked. The speaker stands on the rostrum, but within minutes the entire event is effectively suspended as a shouting, chanting mob breaks up the meeting. Security men surround the speaker whose ability to argue is taken away, literally, when one of the protesters snatches away his microphone.

Are you shocked? Of course not. Because the speaker was an Israeli diplomat, an Arab Israeli, in fact, and the event, hosted by the Jewish students, was held, or rather not held, at Edinburgh University.

And nobody, apart from the furious Israeli ambassador, whose job you might say it is to be furious about such situations, is ready to condemn this disgusting state of affairs. The university does not want to speak about how a meeting on its premises was hi-jacked, primarily by non-students. The severely rattled diplomat has gone back to Israel and is unlikely to return. The Jewish students are deeply upset but you, too, if you were them, might be inclined to keep your head down in the knowledge that nobody is going to do anything about it.

Can I implore people to view the video and complain (politely) to the university? Otherwise this is going to get much, much worse.

COMMENTS

Macairt

Mon, 02/07/2011 - 19:05

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0 points

The union vice-president, Sam Hansford, vps@eusa.ed.ac.uk; the university chaplain, h.harris@ed.ac.uk, +may+ be mediating a meeting between leaders of both societies this week.

You can find telephone numbers to Edinburgh University union and chaplaincy here.

http://www.ed.ac.uk/schools-departments/chaplaincy/about/contact

http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/aboutus/contact/

Can I stress Jenny's request that you be POLITE.


Macairt

Mon, 02/07/2011 - 19:07

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Here is link to the Jewish Telegraph report:

http://www.jewishtelegraph.com/glas_1.html

Here is a copy of the email I sent:

Dear Vice-President,

Pursuant to my email to you last week, I would like to add the following.

Edinburgh University Students of Justice in Palestine are perfectly entitled to lobby other societies to exclude or shun any visiting speakers they deem unfit. Indeed they successfully persuaded the Society for International Relations to disinvite Ismail Khaldi.

However, that is where their rights end and those of individual societies begin. Incensed that the Endinburgh University Jewish Society were unconvinced of their arguments, they decided to compel that society from hosting said speaker. On speaking with Mr Liam O'Hare, he told me his and his fellows' actions were "non-violent".

The basic definition of "violence" is to "compel another involuntarily to one's will by force", and this is precisely what Mr O'Hare and his fellows did on 03.02.2011 (see links below). Jews are a minority, Jewish students relatively few and university Jewish societies and their meetings commensurately small. It is among the easiest of things, and least courageous, to insert a majority of one's fellows into one of their meetings, and so coerce it to stop. Messrs O'Hare, Napier and their fellow occupiers, some of whom were over 6 ft, knew perfectly well that physically removing them and their group would be difficult to impossible for a smaller group, less physically confident or aggressive.

When Mr Khaldi tried to calm the situation down and propose a debate, Mr Mick Napier of SPSC (who is not, I believe, a student) literally ripped the microphone from the table, damaging it. Some students describe an atmosphere so violent and hostile that they were afraid to speak. Mr O'Hare's written account of the incident, published on the EU SJP website (link below), makes clear that his intention was to physically intimidate Mr Khaldi into "hiding behind his bodyguards". Those less intimidated, that tried to ask that Khaldi be allowed to speak, were ignored.

Edinburgh University Jewish students were breaking no laws or university rules by hosting Mr. Khaldi. However, the actions of Mr. O'Hare, Edinburgh University Students for Justice in Palestine, as well as outsiders and non-students from Scottish Palestine Solidarity Campaign, were clearly in breach of several university and union rules, not least for physically abusing another society by forcibly compelling it to stop its perfectly lawful gathering. Indeed a case can be made that they committed an s. 5 public order act offence. By any criterion, it constituted bullying.

I would hope that Edinburgh University Jewish students may trust to their union to protect their lawful rights, and that they do not have to resort to law, or force equal and opposite; for the consequences of which the union, by failing to apply the most elementary discipline to the abusing party, would be entirely responsible.

As an addendum, as a disabled student and wheelchair user, leaving my home and travelling to any lecture or meeting is extremely difficult. Had my efforts, and expenses (I have to hire a wheelchair accessible taxi in each instance), to hear an important point of view, been rendered in vain by such thoughtless action, I would have contacted student disability rights as soon as possible.

To iterate: Mr O'Hare and his associates are entitled to protest, but not to bully their fellow Jewish students. If I might observe, that constitutes the Socialism of Fools.


Yoni1

Mon, 02/07/2011 - 19:10

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-2 points

"Can I stress Jenny's request that you be POLITE"

WHY?! Because Jews have to be apologetic about standing up to antisemitism? It didn't work in Germany, and it hasn't worked in the UK over the past 15 years, a UK which has now become riddled with antisemitism because Jews have shouted loudly about it.

I phoned this so-called university, and gave them an unmistakeable piece of my mind as a proud Jew.

I would urge you to do the same.


Yoni1

Mon, 02/07/2011 - 19:10

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-2 points

Sorry, have NOT shouted loudly about it.


Macairt

Mon, 02/07/2011 - 19:15

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Here is a link to the SPSC account of what they did, replete with the mobile phone number of the SJP organizer, Liam O'Hare, and an email contact:

07519575060 or edinburghsjp@gmail.com

http://scottishpsc.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3...

Here is Liam O'Hare on facebook

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=731139596

Along with his group, Edinburgh University Students for Justice in Palestine

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=294612550346&v=wall

Again, please be POLITE.

And Edinburgh JSoc, who I am sure would appreciate your support

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2217626958


Macairt

Mon, 02/07/2011 - 19:17

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-3 points

Yoni, one may express one's sense of injustice, upset or even anger, and yet remain polite.


Yoni1

Mon, 02/07/2011 - 19:19

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-3 points

And it gets you absolutely nowhere. You obviously haven't understood a single word I wrote. You live in a paradise of fools.


Macairt

Mon, 02/07/2011 - 19:20

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-1 points

'And it gets you absolutely nowhere.'

I'm the one who found this video.


Jonathan Hoffman

Mon, 02/07/2011 - 19:23

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"Can I stress Jenny's request that you be POLITE."

Utter sanctimony - looks like the Order of the Trembling Israelites is Alive and Well ...

Sorry, "Deference" went out with the Ark and has never done Jews any good anyway.

"Why shout when a whisper will do?" ... famous remark of the last Board of Deputies President .. the trouble is, it won't do - the proof is out there.

Are the Israel haters "polite" when they disrupt talks and - yes - concerts by Israeli musicians?

David Cameron on Saturday spoke of "muscular liberalism" .........

We need "Muscular Judaism"


Joe Millis

Mon, 02/07/2011 - 19:57

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-2 points

We have muscular Judaism, Jonathan. It's called Israel.


amber

Mon, 02/07/2011 - 20:30

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1 point

Edinburgh Uni is a hotbed of Jew hatred and anti-Israel bigotry.

I know - I did postgrad work there.


jose (not verified)

Mon, 02/07/2011 - 21:08

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1 point

We have muscular Judaism, Jonathan. It's called Israel.

We have muscular idiocy... Milligramsam!


Joe Millis

Mon, 02/07/2011 - 21:40

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-4 points

You have muscular idiocy, Jose? one out of two ain't bad, I suppose.


Macairt

Mon, 02/07/2011 - 21:44

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1 point

On another note, Liam O'Hare asks, Where is the free speech for the people of Gaza?

Good question. Answer: Ask Hamas.

Jonathan, if you are going to request the BOD, Israel embassy or whoever to train Jewish students and JSocs how to deal with physical confrontations, and techniques to stand up to and/or deal with this kind of bullying, I am 100% behind you.

Please do.


jose (not verified)

Mon, 02/07/2011 - 21:54

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2 points

You have muscular idiocy, Jose? one out of two ain't bad, I suppose.

I should have known that you could not read a simple sentence, Milligramsam.
Equating Israel with Judaism is a big idiocy and a basic lack of knowledge of the country. Equating it with "muscular Judaism" is even more idiotic.


Joe Millis

Mon, 02/07/2011 - 22:58

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-3 points

ROFLMAO. Israel is the Jewish state in case the silly obsessive had forgotten.


Joe Millis

Mon, 02/07/2011 - 23:00

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-3 points

Macairt, there are krav maga courses for students and others.


Joe Millis

Mon, 02/07/2011 - 23:02

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-3 points

That is the silly obsessive who keeps reporting his blogs and marking himself up.


jose (not verified)

Tue, 02/08/2011 - 06:59

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2 points

ROFLMAO. Israel is the Jewish state in case the silly obsessive had forgotten.

In case the silly Milligramsam had forgotten, there is a difference between "Jewish" and "Judaism" and "muscular" is nowhere mentioned either.


jose (not verified)

Tue, 02/08/2011 - 07:05

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2 points

That is the silly obsessive who keeps reporting his blogs and marking himself up.

Well Milligramsam, the proof of your stupidity is no more to be made. A pseudo-journalist who doesn't know the difference between "Jewish" and "Judaism" and finds no bettew adjective than "muscular" to describe Israel is all what we needed.


Joe Millis

Tue, 02/08/2011 - 08:46

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-2 points

What's a Milligramsam? Do you see Milligramsams everywhere, Jose? You know, like others see JoseAnths Posners?


jose (not verified)

Tue, 02/08/2011 - 09:26

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1 point

Always trying your diversion techniques, Milligramsam? Why don't you try sticking to you own argument, let alone that of the blog author?


Joe Millis

Tue, 02/08/2011 - 09:28

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-2 points

You must see these Milligramsams all over the place, Jose. Like other deluded obsessives see JoseAnth Posners? what form do they take? Are they big, dark masses with shiny eyes and lightning for hair or are they like Scotch mist, all swirly and grey?


Joe Millis

Tue, 02/08/2011 - 09:29

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-2 points

Giving yourself points again, Jose. The sign of a very insecure individual.


jose (not verified)

Tue, 02/08/2011 - 14:19

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2 points

You must see these Milligramsams all over the place, Jose.

No there is only one Milligramsam, Milligramsam.
Please try to get to the point discussed in these blogs. Showing off here with no argument at all does not work.

Giving yourself points again, Jose. The sign of a very insecure individual.

Considering your stupidity, it is very efficient! Maybe a Posner is giving you negative points!


jose (not verified)

Tue, 02/08/2011 - 14:20

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3 points

Any explanation regarding your indiscriminate use of "Judaism" in lieu of "Jewish"?


Jon_i_Cohen

Tue, 02/08/2011 - 14:38

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2 points

Agreed!
Problem is that in the UK Jewish "leadersheep" there aren't any Jews with muscles!


Joe Millis

Tue, 02/08/2011 - 14:44

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-2 points

So these Milligramsams that you see, jose, are they very real to you? Do they speak in tongues to you? Or in any one of your various and numerous "native" languages? How many legs, arms, eyes do they have? And skin colour? White? Brown? Yellow? Purple with pink spots?


Joe Millis

Tue, 02/08/2011 - 14:46

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-2 points

There are Jews with muscles, Jon (those who demonstrate at any opportunity, for example). The problem is, their strategy and tactics haven't exactly been successful either.


Jon_i_Cohen

Tue, 02/08/2011 - 14:51

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2 points

"Strategy and tactics"? what strategy & tactics?, exactly the point Joe, there maybe a few who turnout on "demos", but there is no cohesive, organsised, planning by our so-called "leadersheep" of anything that remotely resembles pro-active and positive action. The Board Of Deputies and the JLC are too afraid of there own shadows and the wrong people are in control.


Joe Millis

Tue, 02/08/2011 - 15:00

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-2 points

The BoD, for all its many faults, represents the will of the community. If the community wanted any different, it would send other reps to the Board. It doesn't and it hasn't because perhaps it doesn't feel the need for a more pro-active group. After all, if the situation is so bad here, why has there been enough olim from Britain to fill only about two El Al jumbos? Over a whole year. And for all the doom and gloom, reported antisemitic incidents are down by almost a third in one year. If total crime figures were down that much, we'd all be celebrating.
And as for the JLC… No, I don't see the point of this oligarchical body either.


jose (not verified)

Tue, 02/08/2011 - 15:01

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1 point

So these Milligramsams that you see, jose

Obviously, Milligramsam, your reading impairments prevent your understanding of singular vs plural...
And your stupidity prevents you from speaking on the subject of the blog.
Can you explain us the difference between "Jewish" and "Judaism"? It could be nice for you future carreer, in something else than journalism, preferably.


jose (not verified)

Tue, 02/08/2011 - 15:02

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1 point

There are Jews with muscles

Really? Interesting discovery! I tend to prefer those with a brain, though.


Joe Millis

Tue, 02/08/2011 - 15:03

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-2 points

Getting back to Jenni's (note, correct spelling) original posting, if Edinburgh university doesn't want to get involved, perhaps the local rozzers should be encouraged to do so.


jose (not verified)

Tue, 02/08/2011 - 15:04

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2 points

After all, if the situation is so bad here, why has there been enough olim from Britain to fill only about two El Al jumbos?

One may also remember that many Jews did not make it out of Germany or Poland. Milligramsam has forgotten that.


Joe Millis

Tue, 02/08/2011 - 15:05

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-2 points

Ah Jose, with the Milligramsams again. I am sure, that for him, they are just as real as the JoseAnth Posners are for the other deluded obsessives. So I ask again: are they very real to you? Do they speak in tongues to you? Or in any one of your various and numerous "native" languages? How many legs, arms, eyes do they have? And skin colour? White? Brown? Yellow? Purple with pink spots?


Joe Millis

Tue, 02/08/2011 - 15:07

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-3 points

Jose, before awarding points to yourself, did you think about the fact that there are no anti-Jewish laws in the UK? Can you show us where the concentration camps are in Britain?


jose (not verified)

Tue, 02/08/2011 - 15:12

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2 points

And I suggest the lawfare weapon should be turned against those who attack freedom of expression in the UK.


jose (not verified)

Tue, 02/08/2011 - 15:13

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2 points

Can you show us where the concentration camps are in Britain?

There weren't any in 1933 Germany either.


jose (not verified)

Tue, 02/08/2011 - 15:14

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2 points

Besides, I don't think it is necessary for the situation to go so bad before we act.


jose (not verified)

Tue, 02/08/2011 - 15:17

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2 points

Ah Jose, with the Milligramsams again

Poor Milligramsam, he feels so alone he must invent copies of himself!


Joe Millis

Tue, 02/08/2011 - 15:21

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-2 points

And poor Jose has to invent something to fight, just like Don Quixote. Are they windmills you are tilting against? Big windmills that speak to you in tongues.


mattpryor

Tue, 02/08/2011 - 15:41

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1 point

Jon,

It shouldn't just be Jewish leaders that are concerned about free speech, or about the global conspiracy against our democratic ally in the Middle East. Anyone that wants to continue living in a free society needs to stand up and be counted.


Joe Millis

Tue, 02/08/2011 - 15:47

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-1 points

Matt, spot on. I agree here with Nick. No, not that one.


Macairt

Tue, 02/08/2011 - 15:54

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'Can you show us where the concentration camps are in Britain?'

That is beside the point. The antisemitism that constitutes the greatest threat to the greatest number of Jews today is that which threatens the second or largest Jewish community in the world today: the Jewish state of Israel.

Since groups like EUSJP or SPSC cannot target or affect Israel directly, they will target Jews local who sympathise or are affiliated with the second or largest Jewish community in the world, Israel.

Britain is a tiny Jewish community. We are connected with Israel in all kinds of ways: social, familial, cultural, religious, economic etc. BDS cannot primarily target Israel, but it can target those local bonds. It can attempt to isolate the Anglo-Jewish community from Israel. And this was one of those attempts. And the evidence is that, in Scotland, this is much worse than elsewhere in the UK, and possibly in Glasgow the worst there, though now it is spreading to Edinburgh.

Alex Salmond is partly to blame for this since his compelling a Scots Jewish report on the state of Scottish Jewry, which singled SPSC for antisemitism or anti-Jewish prejudice, for destruction.

Since then, SPSC and its affiliates have gotten more and more out of hand, and constituted more and more of a threat to the local Scottish Jewish way of life. Now they are directly attacking Scottish Jewish student societies. They need defending, by themselves, and others. By legal means, or by means of force equal and opposite, if the university will not defend them.


Joe Millis

Tue, 02/08/2011 - 16:02

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-1 points

Macairt, he was talking about Britain. As for antisemitism in the UK, wasn't it down by almost a third last year? Let's keep things in perspective.


Macairt

Tue, 02/08/2011 - 16:13

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'Let's keep things in perspective.'

Who mentioned concentration camps or Nazi? Not I.

You clearly have not been watching the scene in Scotland, which is getting worse, in precisely the way I have said, to wit, the video above. If you do not agree with me, Jenny Frazer clearly does:

"Can I implore people to view the video and complain (politely) to the university? Otherwise this is going to get much, much worse."

With all due respect, Joe, whether you are Jewish or not (are you, as a matter of interest?), you are clearly not a Jewish student on campus anywhere.


Joe Millis

Tue, 02/08/2011 - 16:21

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-1 points

And I wasn't the one who first raised the spectre of Britain being like pre-war Germany or Poland. If you look above to this thread (14:03), you will see that I too agree with Jenni (not Jenny, she don't like that spelling), and that the students should have involved Lothian and Borders Police, which has responsibility for Edinburgh.
My religion is irrelevant, but I'm a Jedi Knight ;-)


jose (not verified)

Tue, 02/08/2011 - 16:22

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2 points

And poor Jose has to invent something to fight

Your stupidity, I didn't have to invent, though. Thinking is difficult with one Milligram inside the head, but try to think that doing nothing or behaving like our foes doesn't befit democracy-lovers like us. Once those who prevent freedom of expression, like the the Australian I mentioned earlier, are sentenced to jail term, there will be less volunteers.


jose (not verified)

Tue, 02/08/2011 - 16:24

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1 point

My religion is irrelevant, but I'm a Jedi Knight

Let's prepare to see "Lukas", "Palpatine" and "Darth Vader" appear as backup pseudos !

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