Turkey must be suspended from NATO

steveabbott writes:

"The US may have a history of being Israels bitch"

I do believe everything we need to know about Abbott is contained in those words. He truly is an ugly individual.

Then again, what can we expect from a person who wrote the following on another thread?

"Israel has become a lunatic state. The only thing that will stop it is a catastrophic military defeat - something like what happened to Germany or Japan. Only after that will it have the chance to grow into a normal country."

"and invoke article V of the Nato treaty - calling upon its NATO allies to assist it with its legitimate military response to a belligerent (Israel), that has already attacked ships of a NATO member."

What you actually are salivating about is the killing of Jews. As I wrote elsewhere, you really do belong in prison.

joshua18. chill out bro - 'bitch' in this context is a slang term used by young people. Another way of putting it would be that Israel 'owns' the US. You must keep up to date!

Why do you keep using phrases like 'salivating about killing jews', or 'calling for the deaths of millions of jews'???? Or 'equates Nazi Germany with Israel'??? No I dont, and anyone can examine my posts on this site to see that I dont.

Regarding your quoting of my catastrophic defeat comment, yes - I do think that awful prospect probably is the only thing that will pull Israel from its present disastrous course.

whats truly ugly joshua18, is you and others on this site supporting a state that commits acts of piracy in international waters, murders peace activists, kidnaps survivors, steals ships and the goods therein, and then celebrates spoof videos mocking the dead. You are a fine moral example to us all.

RayCook is right

thank you Jonathan

please see the spoof letter on my blog to the NATO SG (not sure if I can give a self-advertising link)

I have commented on your claims about piracy etc on your last blog post. You have now added theft. Strange that the stolen goods were sent to Gaza but Hamas still won't allow them in. The Gazans are so desperate that Hamas refuses to supply humanitarian aid because it is tainted - this is the immoral bunch of thugs you are siding with.

Israel disassociated itself from the video, by the way. I don't. The dead were jihadi terrorists seeking martrydom. They even left goodbye notes to their families. And the video was mocking world reaction not the dead. Jews don't mock the dead, we leave that to the likes of Hamas (nice cartoon about a dead Gilad Shalit) and the Palestinian Authority who name squares and sports stadiums after terrorists who killed innocent civilians.

Israelis and Jews don't need morality lessons from them or you.

last comment to SA but I guess he realises that LOL

of course u can link to yr blog, why not

ok Jonathan, but if I get banned I'll blame you :-)

http://www.raymondcook.net/blog/index.php/2010/06/08/dear-secretary-gene...

Steve, when BD described you as an antisemite on another thread I thought he was being harsh. I'm still prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt, despite your wishing a "catastrophic defeat" on Israel, which would mean another Shoah. I believe you did say on another thread that you do not advocate Israel to cease existing. But that would be the end result of your quoted wish.
Israel did not commit "piracy" - it acted in accordance with established procedure which permits a blockading navy to board a vessel on the high seas when, following warnings, that vessel demonstrates that it is determined not to comply. Israel has a perfect right - indeed, an obligation - to search vessels for armaments which threaten its civilians. The "peace activists" refused to comply and one retort of theirs was "Shut up - go back to Auschwitz". Video footage demonstrates that the activists were armed and brutal. Had they behaved like the passengers of the "Rachel Corrie" and cooperated with the boarders they would have come to no harm. The video did not mock the dead - it satirised the the mendacity of the activists and the gullibility of people like you.
And by the way, as Ray says, Israel leaves mockery of the dead to Hamas. Did you know, btw, that unlike the IDF and other civilised armies, Hamas mutilates corpses?

yvetta

Thank you for responding. And thank you for not reaching for the anti-semite label as a knee jerk reaction. You musn't believe everything BD tells you about me. He just gets wound up because I write better than him - ha ha - only joking.

i have not said i 'wish' for a catastrophic deafeat for Israel. I have speculated that such an event may be the only way that Israel can recognise the disaster that is militarism, and reform istself into a normal society. The example I gave was Japan and Germany in 1945 - though again I stress that I am not comparing Israel to Nazi Germany - merely using them as an example to illustrate the possibility of militarised warlike states becoming something better.

by catastrophic defeat, i do not mean the destruction of Israel - that would be utterly unacceptable. The wider world, particularly the US would not tolerate it, and I dont think any combination of Israel's enemies could achieve it - even assuming they wanted to. I mean, a military defeat considerably worse than that inflicted by Hezbollah in 2006, but not something strategically terminal. Perhaps something similar to the defeat suffered by Egypt in 1967.

Re the act of piracy; procedure may permit the of boarding vessels to maintain a blockade (I am not a lawyer specialising in the law of the sea), but surely not in international waters, and only if the blockade were legal. It is not legal. It contravenes international law since it amounts to collective punishment of an entire population - putting Gazans on a diet as some charmer of an Israeli spokesperson put it. The UN have made quite clear that the blockade is not legal. Therefore enforcing cannot be legal either - surely you can see that? The 'search for weapons' thing is a complete red herring. The customs authorities in the ports of departure would have been very thorough in ensuring the cargo complied with the law in those countries - they would not have permitted the shipping of weapons. And in point of fact there were no weapons, were there? Please dont refer to kitchen knives, hammers, wrenches, and bits of wood - I dont think Hamas has much use for that kind of weaponry.

And why should the passengers comply with an illegal order to stop and be boarded? I should imagine the Rachel Corrie passangers were a bit more co-operative after hearing that the IDF kills people on ships it boards.

As for the video, I have seen the postings, and it seems clear to me that the posters are revelling in the events of which we speak - events in which 9 people were murdered. Does that not seem a bit inappropriate to you - at all? And no, I didn't know that about Hamas. If true (and I stress if), that would of course be disgusting.

Well ray - you need lessons in morality from somewhere, because do you know what? - in all the posts I have seen over the last few days, NOT ONE, has shown the slightest sympathy for the plight of palestinians living in occupation on the west bank, or suffering in the open prison that Israel has made of Gaza. NOT ONE person on the JC has shown any understanding, or simple human feeling to those brutally oppressed by the Israeli state you so happily defend.

All you hear, is bleating about anti-semitism, whining about Israels right to defend itself, and torturous defence of the indefensible.

Where is your humanity? Where is the humanity of the other bloggers on this site? Are Israelis the only human beings that have rights?

Steve, about to feed the cat and tep into my pyjams. Will read your response tomorrow.
I apologise for sometimes not engaging in debate, a failing for which you chided me somewhere. I often look in here when I'm working and therefore feel guilty about spending too much time here, so sometimes I tend to hit and run.

Of course, I meant "step" not tep.
"A bad workman always blames his tools" but my laptop seems sometimes to miss letters and I end up with typos!
Perhaps I type too quickly.

To SA.

Even if there were no blockade Israel still has the right to intercept in International Waters any ship it believes could be carrying weapons to the port of a belligerent. Maybe you should study the legal aspects, you might be surprised. The blockade isn't illegal just because the UN with a built-in anti-Israel majority says it's illegal. It has never been challenged in an international court s far as I know whatever the rest of the world says.

If I have time tomorrow I will post about the humanity of Hamas in direct contrast to the humanity of Israel.

This is part of my blog 'mission statement':

"I support a form of a two state solution in Israel/Palestine but only when Israel's security can be guaranteed.

I am concerned for the welfare of all the people of the region and fervently desire that both sides live in peace and co-operation with mutual advantage and respect."

Unfortunately it's a hard goal to achieve when the other side in one form or another has tried to annihilate you for the last 62 years.

The plight of the Palestinians is also the responsibility of their leaders and the Arab world; they have failed their people miserably time and time again.

I am not happy with all of Israel's policies. Israel is an imperfect country. So is the UK. So is the US. So is Iran. I have criticised Israel and Israelis and I will do so again.

I would guess that most Israel supporters posting here have similar views. We see that Israel is in an existential struggle against dark forces and moral blindness. As you don't see this and you are not prepared to doubt or even moderate an iota of your own views or even your language for a second this puts you on the dark side or at least in the shadows. It also puts you in the same position as the true humanitarians in the flotilla. They were also victims. Their mission was hijacked in Istanbul by fanatical jew-haters and they refuse to see it. This is moral cowardice.

I don't expect you to love Israel. I would like to see constructive hostility. All I ever see is diatribe and hate speech (from your side, not necessarily you). I also do see hatred of Israel thinly cloaking anti-Semitism and demonisation (not always but you just have to go to any rally against Israel and you will see it and it doesn't just come from Muslims).

If you stand with Hamas then you are with Galloway and Benn and Livingstone and McGuiness and all the others whose ideology completely blinds them to the fact that they are supporting evil. An evil from which you and they are not immune when they have no more use for you.

Raycook.

thats a very thoughtful and constructive post raycook. thankyou. i am off to work now, but will come back on that later.

thanks yvetta. have you tried a full size keyboard with usb to plug into the laptop? i have laptop keyboards - my hands are like shovels! i'm off to work now - look forward to seeing your post later.

gosh - its catching. that should have read 'i hate laptops'.