Thy Destructors and Destroyers Shall Come From Amongst You (Isiah 49,17)


By Avraham Reiss
November 10, 2010
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A few JC Blogs regulars have been active on a British Methodist Church blog, combatting the recent decision of the Methodist Church that its members boycott goods from Israeli settlements situated beyond the 1967 borders.

Whereas their decision refers to "Occupied Palestinian Land", they have no answer to our pointing out that Palestine ceased to exist on 14th May 1948, and that the settlements in question are on lands that were previously under Jordanian, Egyptian or Syrian sovereignty. And that there is no such thing as "Palestinian Land".

But what bothers me is that we won that argument because of their ignorance! The first people to publish a request for a boycott of goods from Israeli settlements situated beyond the 1967 borders were Israelis from the Extreme Left "Peace Bloc". (You will never hear the term "Extreme Left" on Israeli radio or tv, because these leftist-controlled organizations will never admit that on their "side" there are such things as "extremists").

Uri Avneri was one of the leaders of the so-called "Peace Bloc".

The same Uri Avneri who made a living for years from publishing a semi-pornographic magazine ("HaOlam HaZeh") which specialised in groping around in the gutters and drains of Israeli society and happily regurgitating in print whatever it found dripping and smelling there.

The same Uri Avneri, who at the height of the first Lebanon War in 1982 met with Arafat, and described the initial meeting as follows: "We embraced each other, it was natural, as between friends". This at a time when IDF soldiers were fighting Arafat's terrorists and defumigating Lebanon from their presence.

This is the person who originated the boycott idea.

What could I possibly reply to a Methodist who was knowledgeable enough to throw this in my face?

The same thing is true with the Jewish Chronicle blogs section. I don't have to repeat the anti-Semitic / anti-Israeli sentiments that have been published here by certain anti-Israeli and anti-Jewish bloggers.

So what right will I have to object to an anti-Semite using the terms "judeo-fascist", "Apartheid State", "murderers of young children" etc etc ad nauseum, when he claims "I read it in the Jewish Chronicle"?

This is a price for democracy which I am not prepared to pay. At time of war many democratic rights are suspended, usually voluntarily by an understanding public.

But not always voluntarily. At which times those with a finger on the buttton are not allowed to get caught sleeping on duty.

I do NOT expect a Jewish organization to supply my enemies with anti-Semitic fuel.

COMMENTS

telegramsam

10 November, 2010 - 10:20

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Indeed, Thy Destructors and Destroyers Shall Come From Within You (Isiah 49,17). They are called settlers.

telegramsam

10 November, 2010 - 10:39

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I suppose we'll have to wait for Moshe to come back here to see what he has to say.

telegramsam

10 November, 2010 - 10:40

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They are settlers, Yonit. They live on occupied land that was acquired by force.

telegramsam

10 November, 2010 - 10:41

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Anyway, I thought Avraham had left us. More empty promises, he's full of 'em and it, more kalam fadi (empty words), as the Arabs say.

Yoni1

10 November, 2010 - 10:41

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My name is Yoni, you ignoramus.
That land is not 'occupied'. You can't 'occupy' your own homeland.
They lived there for millenia, up until 1948 when they were ethnically cleansed by force, you pathetic ignoramus.

Yoni1

10 November, 2010 - 10:42

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You certainly are full it, Spammo.

amber

10 November, 2010 - 10:43

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tsam thanks the Jews who vilify Israel, with an aim to ending its existence, are not dangerous.

A perfect illustration of Avraham's title.

Yoni1

10 November, 2010 - 10:44

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I see the moderators have started deleting comments. Pity they weren't doing that when the threads were full of antisemitic posts.

telegramsam

10 November, 2010 - 10:47

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Oh, dear, Yoni, you go all abusive and defensive when you're wrong. OK, if that's the homeland, I'm sure a deal could be done whereby Israel relinquishes control of the coastal plain (which is full of the Israeli equivalent of Jon=i-Cohen's "guardian-reading, open-toed-sandal-wearing, bearded, vegetarian, lefties" and is therefore worthless even if they do make all the money to keep the "vitally important" yeshivah bochurs and settlers in a way to which they have become accustomed). Israel can then declare itself the renewed Kingdom of Judea (and Samaria). And you can go and live there.

Yoni1

10 November, 2010 - 11:00

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LOL. I am not 'wrong' just because some ignoramus says so.
Your ignorance screams from every sentence. Netanya, for example, is full of Orthodox and ultra-Orthodox Jews. And your snotty comments on "in a way to which they have become accustomed" are just laugahbly infantile.

Avraham Reiss

10 November, 2010 - 12:11

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Isn't it great!

Someone writes a serious post on a serious subject, and along comes this Israel-hater EVERY TIME ON EVERY BLOG
and reduces it to --censored--.

WHY ISN'T THE JC BLOGS MODERATOR DOING SOMETHING ABOUT THIS?

I suspect that tsam is protected by the NEW ISRAEL FUND
- he is certainly carrying out their policies here.

JCWatch has published in the past that the NIF funded an Arab organisation that published a faked photo of an Israeli soldier touching an Arab woman's breast. We also publsihed NIF's Nick Sapir's reply that "it was a bit agressive".

It's about time we began homing in on the NIF.

telegramsam

10 November, 2010 - 12:45

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Don't you know, Avraham? The NIF and the ZF are now fighting together against institutionalised racism in Israel. Thank crunchie for that. Are you still here?

telegramsam

10 November, 2010 - 12:51

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Yoni, Netanya is also considered the crime capital of Israel.
Here's a better idea for a free Jewish democracy. Stand on Tel Aviv beach, let's say in front of the Dan Hotel (Frischmann Beach) and the area to just before Ashdod to the South, Haifa to the north and about 12 kms eastwards along, say, Route 6, could be that state, with the profitable high-tech infrastructure and beach resorts. Netanya and Bnei Brak could be given autonomy, a sort of Area B.

Avraham Reiss

10 November, 2010 - 12:55

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NIF-Flunkie/Gopher telegramsam alias moshe tzarfati says:
"They are settlers, Yonit. They live on occupied land that was acquired by force."

He's no different from the anti-Semites in the Methodist Church. He makes EXACTLY the same claim.

This was refuted in this post at the top, but tsam couldn't understand a post containing more than 4 lines.

Hell, he couldn't even get Yoni's name right - just 4 letters!

Illiterate anti-Semites they are sending us! What did we do to deserve this?

telegramsam

10 November, 2010 - 13:11

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Are you still here, Avraham? You are staging more comebacks than James Brown or Frank Sinatra.

amber

10 November, 2010 - 13:21

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tsam, it is clear that, whatever the title of the blog, you have an agenda. It involves ceaselessly and obsessively attacking fellow Jews, whilst you generally ignore the haters and antisemites. You never confron them - ever.

Why?

Avraham Reiss

10 November, 2010 - 13:24

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Amber - precisely put!
He's a plagiaristic misogenist!

amber

10 November, 2010 - 13:31

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I think tsam is simply one of those people who likes to be contrary for its own sake. In this case, it is not only annoying, it is downright dangerous, as he gives aid to those who would do harm to Israel and the Jews.

mattpryor

10 November, 2010 - 13:36

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Amber & Avraham: TS's purpose here is to drive away dissenting voices from the JC blogs by intimidation and rudeness. The same is true for a few others. There will come a time soon when only anti-Israel and anti-Jewish opinions will be allowed here.

Advis3r

10 November, 2010 - 13:54

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-1 points

A sure cure for the troll which goes by the name telegramsam - ignore both it and its lame comments. Be aware it feeds on your anger and the resentment it creates by deliberately posting antagonistic messages about Israel/Jews. Disregard and pay it no heed and it and it will wither away back into its hole.

amber

10 November, 2010 - 14:23

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Advis3r, I agree - but the only problem is that he singlehandedly provides half the posts and comments on these blogs.

telegramsam

10 November, 2010 - 14:47

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Amber, if you think I ignore the anti-semites, then you are very selective in your reading.

Yoni1

10 November, 2010 - 15:00

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What Netanya is or isn't 'considered', spammo, is as relevant to the argument as the rest of your nonsense, i.e. not in the least.
Jerusalem is also part of Israel. Live with it, or choke on it, whatever.

Avraham Reiss

10 November, 2010 - 15:38

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Yoni1, why give him the option to 'live with it'? The other option you gave him was fine ...

telegramsam

10 November, 2010 - 15:46

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I guess the JC won't (thankfully) ban Avraham, despite him calling for the editor to be barred from Israel, because the JC staff is clever enough to realise that by doing so he will just behave all dehorsed cosasack if he did.

mattpryor

10 November, 2010 - 15:48

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yoni1: Have you noticed that the label "settlers" is being applied to more and more Israelis as every month passes?

I have a feeling that this time next year people will be describing Tel Aviv as a "settlement", and I'm also fairly sure that Telegramsam will be agreeing with them.

telegramsam

10 November, 2010 - 16:00

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Matt, here is a map of Israel

As you can see, it includes Tel Aviv and the other productive areas.

telegramsam

10 November, 2010 - 16:03

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Oops, here's the map (I hope):

israel map

Avraham Reiss

10 November, 2010 - 17:57

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Matt,
"I have a feeling that this time next year people will be describing Tel Aviv as a "settlement""

How right you are! Just today Bibi had to tell Obama that Jerusalem is not a settlement!

Anonymous

10 November, 2010 - 17:59

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This comment by Avraham Reiss has been moderated

Avraham Reiss

10 November, 2010 - 18:02

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If that map was supposed to be a map of the Complete Land of Israel, it is far too small.

In the future, what was displayed here will be a map of the Greater Jerusalem area. (Finally, Jeruslaemites will have their own sea!)

mattpryor

10 November, 2010 - 18:04

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Good for him. People need to understand that Israel's enemies will say Wood Green is a settlement if it helps demonise Jews living there.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Bibi is a legend. I wish we could swap him for Cameron (or at least clone him).

Yoni1

10 November, 2010 - 18:48

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No, Spammo, that is the map of the 1949 armistice lines, which were never regarded as final and which ceased to have any existence in June 1967.

But how will someone without marbles grasp this simple point?

Yes, I have noticed that we are moving towards Jerusalem-and-Wood-Green-are-settlements territory.

Obama and Dave ... as clueless as each other.

telegramsam

10 November, 2010 - 19:10

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No, that map is perfectly fine. Israel can look after itself within those borders (it did in 1967) and it includes the productive areas needed for a modern, progressive state. And it's win-win, the returning Palestinian refugees can have all those lovely red-roofed homes in the settlements and the apartments built in Pisgat Zeev, Maaleh Adumim, Ramot, Ramat Shlomo, Efrat, Kiryat Arba etc.

Avraham Reiss

10 November, 2010 - 19:14

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Moderator, you are sailing very close to the wind.

telegramsam

10 November, 2010 - 19:16

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Yeah, moderator, let Avraham have his say. He just shows what a pratt he is every time.

Yoni1

10 November, 2010 - 19:31

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As a prat (one t), Spammy cannot be improved upon, as witness his halfwitted remarks at 19:10.

telegramsam

10 November, 2010 - 19:40

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Yoni, Yoni, Yoni, as a translator who knows the difference netween rein and reign, from you I expected more. According to my Chambers, pratt can be spelled with both one and two ts.
Be that as it may, though, AR is still a prat, pratt.

telegramsam

10 November, 2010 - 19:44

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Anyhooo, where's the real Jonathan gone? Is he too embarrassed to show himself around here now that the ZF is co-operating with the NIF and the Avraham Fund? If someone spots him, please pass on my warmest regards.

Yoni1

10 November, 2010 - 21:46

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Chambers, ah well ...

The substance of the matter is still that the content of that post, like the majority of your posts, is silly.

Yoni1

10 November, 2010 - 21:46

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Chambers, ah well ...

The substance of the matter is still that the content of that post, like the majority of your posts, is silly.

Yoni1

10 November, 2010 - 21:46

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Chambers, ah well ...

The substance of the matter is still that the content of that post, like the majority of your posts, is silly.

amber

10 November, 2010 - 23:27

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tsam, as you very well know, the 1948 ceasefire lines were not, and are not, borders. Why would anyone listen to you when you make such a fundamental error?

telegramsam

11 November, 2010 - 11:06

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Amber, the 48 borders are perfectly good, since they delineate between a Jewish majority Israel (isn't that what we want?) and an Arab majority Palestine. In fact, one could go to the 47 partition borders, but that would be just plain silly.

telegramsam

11 November, 2010 - 11:06

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Yoni, don't tell me you have a problem with Chambers. Is it antisemitic?

Jon_i_Cohen

11 November, 2010 - 11:22

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If you look at the map kindly posted above, the obvious and natural border is to the East of the Dead Sea and the River Jordan, that is the land mass presently called "Jordan", that IS the real Arab Palestine, as the Jordanians are now acknowledging:-

See here:-

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/140567

and here:-

http://www.thejc.com/blogpost/jordan-is-palestine-says-jordan

telegramsam

11 November, 2010 - 11:27

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No, Jon, the green line is a natural demographic border -- and that is what counts if we want to maintain a state for the Jewish people, that will be relevant to all Jewish people, not just those on the fringes. I am afraid you are deluded if you think the Jordan is Palestine myth has any currency among Palestinians and Jordanians. Perhaps Jordan and the Palestinians might agree to some sort of confederation encompassing the Hashemite Kingdom and the West Bank and Gaza, but that will be in the future.

telegramsam

11 November, 2010 - 11:29

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And anyway, Israel won't agree to it, as according to the Israel-Jordanian peace deal, the Hashemite Kingdom is Israel's buffer to the east. Any foreign troops on Jordanian soil will be viewed by Israel as a cassus belli.

amber

11 November, 2010 - 11:29

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tsam, they are NOT borders. They never were, and are not in any legal sense. They don't become borders because you think "they are good." "How is having the Jewish quarter of Jerusalem not in Israel "good"?)

telegramsam

11 November, 2010 - 11:38

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Amber, that will be the border, because it makes demographic sense. And having just -- well, two weeks ago - returned from Israel, I can tell you that the security barrier (a good idea because it not only gives security it also delineates between the two communities) is being built more or less along the Green Line (even in Jerusalem).

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