The POV of an Expatriate British, Religious, Right-Wing Israeli


By Avraham Reiss
October 12, 2010
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I came to Israel for a year in the 'sixties, stayed on for a year or two, and then happened to be in Jerusalem during the 6 Day War; seeing tanks driving on the road (not on tank-carriers) on their way to release the Old City from Jordanian rule, and then, just 2 days later, seeing lorry loads of Arabs sitting with their hand on their heads, driving in the opposite direction. They were being taken to the Hebrew University's ampi-theater at Givat Ram, which was the most convenient place to hold them. Thus I heard the following conversation between two Israelis.

"Where are they taking them?"
"To the university".
"Why the university?"
"To educate them, of course".

This conversation was held in the old site of the Shaarei Zedek hospital, which was hit by a Jordanian shell while I was inside, serving as a volunteer.

The Six Day War was the decisive factor in my deciding to spend the rest of my life here in Israel. It would be 22 years after my arrival here, before I went back to England for a week's visit.

A book published at that at that time seriously influenced my political direction was "Perfidy" by Ben Hecht. It documented the trial of Malkiel Greenwald, who was accused of slandering Israel Kastner, the man who made a deal with Eichman to release 1,200 Jews in return for Kastner's keeping 20,000 other Jews quiet and "restrained". The presiding judge at the trial said that "Kastner had sold his soul to the devil".

Kastner was a leading Mapai figure. And although Kastner's wartime activities were obviously carried out during the early forties, and the slander trial took place in the fifties, the appearance in the early 'sixties of Ben Hecht's book (he was responsible for financing the arming of the Lechi ship 'Altalena') still greatly bothered the Mapai leadership. They couldn't ban the book - there was no legal justification - so they bought up every available copy. I know this for a fact, since at that time a very close relative worked in Steimatzky's (famous Israeli chain of booksellers) and saw the entire pile in a Steimatzky basement, and asked what they were
doing there. And that is what he was told.

Anyway, I managed to buy a copy before all the rest were hidden. I wouldn't have believed what I read if the author hadn't provided extensive chapter-and-verse sources for each statement he made, mostly from the trial protocols themselves. (BTW, Kastner was assassinated in the street some time after the trial.)

From then on, I was right-wing - and still am.

But fortunately, my political "development" didn't stop there.

I was fortunate during my year on kibbutz to become acquainted with one of the Religious Kibbutz Movement's first rabbis - Rabbi Moshe Levinger, the man who would later be responsible for the building of Kiriat Arba - now a large settlement. Having read "Perfidy", and wondering about who was right in the Haganah-Etzel-Lechi disputes, I asked him. His reply opened my eyes to a wider frame of thinking. "We needed them all", he said. "Those to show the world that we were ready to build a State from the political and statesmanship point of view, and the others to show that we were already militarily capable of defending ourselves".

It was my new exposure to this kind of top-down thinking that led me to the decision to spend a number of years in the Merkaz HaRav Yeshiva, the flagship of the religious Zionist Yeshivot, which emphasizes the teachings of the late Rabbi Avraham Yitzchak Kook.

Rabbi Kook, had he written in English, would long ago have been accorded a double Nobel Prize - both for Literature and for Philosophy. He discusses in his various books the subject of Israel's redemption and its return to the Land of Israel. He relates to the various stages of which the final redemption will be comprised. He forecasted a religious rebellion, a general leaving of Jewish practices, and explains that this is in order to throw off the old Diaspora form of very limited Judaism, in preparation for acceptance of a far more encompassing form of religion. (The Chafetz Chaim lists the number of mitzvot that can be performed in exile: a mere 192 out of 613 mitzvot!).

Rabbi Kook's son, Rabbi Zvi Yehuda Kook z"l, my Rosh Yeshiva, often emphasized that the beginning of the return of the Jewish People to its land, would be marked by agricultural - and specifically not religious - development. See Ezekiel chapter 36.

And after that long preamble, now to the point.

Having left England many decades ago, I don't have much interest in what goes on there. What pulled me in to JC Blogs discussions were matters that affect myself, family and friends, directly: verbal attacks on my State.

And the subject can be summed up in one word: Arabs. Because I don't see the JC Blogs discussing at great length relationships between irreligious, Zionist religious and Ultra-Orthodox Jews - and that is always a hot subject here - or any other Israeli issues.

So lets talk about our Arab cousins.

Given what I have written above, namely that religious Zionists see the current period of Jewish history - starting some 100 years ago - as a pre-ordained period of Jewish redemption and return to reclaim its Land, a very fair question is: and what of the Arabs currently living in Israel? What is to become of them?"

I won't expand on the Zionist position which says that there is enough room for all of us - the position is well known.

I openly admit that I am here only for religious reasons (which include the historical aspects, and certainly Zionism is a practical expression of my religious beliefs.)

The supreme book of Jewish mysticism, the Zohar, written 2,000 years ago, relates to - and prophecies regarding - today's problem.

It says as follows:
The Sons of Ishmael (the Arabs) were given permission to dwell in the Land of Israel because they observe the practice of circumcision. But because they observe it in an 'empty' way, i.e. not in accordance with all the regulations accompanying the mitzva, they were given the Land of Israel in an 'empty' way, i.e. when it was empty of people. [The Land was barren for 2,000 years - no nation managed to live in and develop it.]

At some point (continues the Zohar), the time will come when the Sons of Ishmael will have 'exhausted' their 'reward'. At this point the Jews will start returning to the Land of Israel. The sons of Ishmael will then begin wars of "disturbances" (mehumot) and will involve the Sons of Edom (currently, the Western, Christian world). There will be x wars [I'm holding this back A.R.], the final two will be one on the sea and one in/near Jerusalem. [This would be the famous war of Gog and Magog, in which 70 nations will invade Israel - and be vanquished! By tradition, this will be on Hoshanah Rabah; I wish we knew in which year ...]

A second quote elsewhere from the Zohar, says that even after the Meshiach has arrived, there will be 'yehudaim prutzim' - 'Jews devoid of Jewish content' who will oppose Him!” The foundations of that prophecy we can see here in the JC blogs, in the intense hatred expressed by a few, which we hope will now be forcefully curtailed. They will continue to exist, but we hope elsewhere.

As an Israeli I spent some twenty years serving in a military reserves combat unit; I served 4 spells of duty during the 1st Intifadah, during which I spent much time in Arab villages and Arab houses. My impression is that most of the Arab population living in Israel just want to get on with their lives. Only incitement by extremists forces them to take militant actions. There is no such thing as an Arab democracy, so brute force prevails - supported by the telegramsams, ibrows's, clevesons and other anti-democrats.

The so-called "2-state solution" hasn't got a chance in hell, and will perforce if realised - only lead to more - and intensive - military activity.

The only chance I see for a near-future peace is an agreement that there is no immediate solution for peace, so let's declare a moratorium on all acts of violence (perhaps Stephen P. could advise here?) and live in a temporary peace for a while, so that our children - Israeli and Arab - can grow up and get educated in normal lives.

But I am a realist: it isn't going to happen.

COMMENTS

Yvetta

12 October, 2010 - 17:29

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Wonderful to see you back, Avraham - will read that long and interesting post later!


Jon_i_Cohen

12 October, 2010 - 17:56

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Excellent article and welcome back to the JC.
Food for thought for all, (except of course for the 2-digit IQ Israel bashers, names you have mentioned; talk of Zohar, Chofetz Chaim, Rav Kook etc will far too far above their level of intellect for them to have a clue of what you are talking about!)
I look forward to your next post.


stephenb

12 October, 2010 - 18:25

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Beautiful sentiments Avrahim. Except that the occupation is an ongoing act of violence, are we to have a moratorium on that ?

If you point your gun at me on a daily basis to bend me to your will is that not violence regardless of whether on any given day you do or you do not pull the trigger ?


stephenb

12 October, 2010 - 18:40

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Is Yvetta clairvoyent ?


happygoldfish

12 October, 2010 - 18:51

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avraham, what reasons do you have for saying …

Avraham Reiss: The so-called "2-state solution" hasn't got a chance in hell …

when you also say …

Avraham Reiss: … I spent much time in Arab villages and Arab houses. My impression is that most of the Arab population living in Israel just want to get on with their lives.

if the arabs in the occupied territories are the same, then surely all we have to wait for is a change in leadership?


stephenb

12 October, 2010 - 19:06

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Avrahim you have upset happy she really thinks there is going to be two states and not just one big happy family west of the river. sssshhhhhh dont wake her


mattpryor

12 October, 2010 - 19:24

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Thanks Avrahim for an informative perspective, it's always good to hear genuine and original points of view, whether people agree with them or not.


Yvetta

12 October, 2010 - 19:33

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Hear, hear!


Avraham Reiss

12 October, 2010 - 20:22

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A few replies to comments so far:

stephenb
[quote]
Beautiful sentiments Avrahim. Except that the occupation is an ongoing act of violence, are we to have a moratorium on that ?

If you point your gun at me on a daily basis to bend me to your will is that not violence regardless of whether on any given day you do or you do not pull the trigger ?
[unquote]

It is not occupation. It is possession. In 1967 Egypt, Syria and Jordan declared war on Israel. And guess what? They lost. They lost the war and they lost lands. Had they won, do you really think they would have returned captured lands belonging to us? They would have said "we have regained our lands". So why can't we say it? They were our lands originally. We didn't leave for exile voluntarily.

As one who has partaken in many security operations over the years, I can tell you that all Israel's activities are defensive (inclding pre-emptive defense activities); mostly road-blocks and fences are to prevent suicide bombers. Do you really think we want to live like this? While my kids were growing up I had to leave them and my wife for a month each year, for reserve duty. Who does so willingly?

How many Israeli suicide bombers have exploded themselves in Arab populations?

---------------------
happygoldfish
[quote]
avraham, what reasons do you have for saying …

Avraham Reiss: The so-called "2-state solution" hasn't got a chance in hell …

when you also say …

Avraham Reiss: … I spent much time in Arab villages and Arab houses. My impression is that most of the Arab population living in Israel just want to get on with their lives.

if the arabs in the occupied territories are the same, then surely all we have to wait for is a change in leadership?
[unquote]

HG, you have answered your own question: the average Arab wants peace; minority militants (In Gaza they are no longer minority) want ALL of the Land of Israel. They will prevail, because force always does. Any 2-state solution will make weapons-smuggling prevention harder, and the next military rounds tougher and even more violent.

I agree with you: a change in leadership could completely change the picture - do you really think it will happen?

--------------------

Thanks to those who expressed positive opinions!


happygoldfish

12 October, 2010 - 21:17

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Avraham Reiss: I agree with you: a change in leadership could completely change the picture - do you really think it will happen?

it happened in soviet russia

i believe it's already happening on the west bank (although certainly not in gaza )


amber

12 October, 2010 - 21:18

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Avraham, a fascinating post - thank you. I too have read "Perfidy" and was astonished by it - Ben Hecht was an amazing person.


Avraham Reiss

12 October, 2010 - 21:29

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HG: what might happen in the future is certainly not a basis for weakening Israel's position. When it happens, we'll rethink positions.

As for JS/Gaza - the infamous Oslo agreements were signed with ONE party. We don't have to deal now with two parties. As long as Hamas rules in Gaza - no new arrangements. They say openly that they want to destroy us. The days of Auschwitz are far-gone, distant history.

-----

Amber - thanks: I always enjoy - and agree with - your posts (even those that don't praise me! :-) )


haya malka

12 October, 2010 - 23:01

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I am stuck living in the UK because my husband thought a few years here would help us keep our heads above water. Never have I seen fellow Jews who are so weak of spirit. I am not talking about the Chabadniks, but the average Anglo-Jewry. They are timid, keep their heads down, and have almost bred themselves out of existence. They think if they dont make waves, they will be liked, and hardly ever suport Israel in front of the goyim.


stephenb

13 October, 2010 - 09:13

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The present Fatah leadership is as good as you are going to get, any change will be for the worse from an Isreali perspective.

Avrahim you say its not occupation but " possession " .

leaving aside that possession by conquest went out with the arc among western democracies and that the entire world regards it as an occupation....

If you possess it do you not possess the people too ? So why the delay in granting everyone citizenship with full political and civil rights, freedom of movement etc . I imagine quite a few arabs on the west bank would quite fancy moving to Tel Aviv.

The military presence on the west bank is not defensive its primary role is to facilitate Israeli settling of the land at the point of a gun. Unless you regard the illegal settlements as defensive ?

What do you have in mind ultimately for the 5 million arabs wqest of the river Avrahim ?


amber

13 October, 2010 - 09:20

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What do you have in mind for 5 million Jews living in Israel, Judea and Samaria stephenb? I mean, in light of your racism against them?

Do you still stand by your assertion that Jews encourage stereotypes about themselves, that they need Jesus to turn over a few tables, and that one journalist leaving this site did so for 30 pieces of silver, like Judas?

That's not counting your misogyny.

What a chamer you are.


stephenb

13 October, 2010 - 10:17

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Amber if it were up to me these 5 million jews would be living wherever they chose as would the 5 million Arabs me being a no borders kind of person thats my answer to your question whats your answer to mine ?

you are extremely tedious ill say this just one more time since you seem to have a learning disability and therefore deserve special consideration....I have never said jews need jesus to turn over a few tables. The guy has been dead over 2000 years what possible use could he be to anyone ? copy and paste what I SAID not your rewriting of what I said in your childish idiom I have never said that jews encourage stereotypes of themselves , copy and paste what I SAID not your rewriting of what I said in your childish idiom.

Like I say thats the last time I am going to make the effort to help you out on this one.

And quit trying to make me blush honey cuz its working


telegramsam

13 October, 2010 - 10:25

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Haya Malka, you say you are stuck in the UK. Are you being held against your will? That's illegal and you should go to the police.


stephenb

13 October, 2010 - 10:31

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sam behave


Avraham Reiss

13 October, 2010 - 10:33

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stephenb, so far its a pretty good deal: Israel has - or should I say possesses - Judea and Samaria, and you have demagoguery - we would be fools to deviate from that situation.

"possession by conquest went out with the arc among western democracies and that the entire world regards it as an occupation...." - since Auschwitz, who cares? And that is apart from the fact that what you have written is not proven as true. And in which case, how do you justify Jordanian conquests in 1948? (Hagonev miganav - patur!).

"The military presence on the west bank is not defensive its primary role is to facilitate Israeli settling of the land at the point of a
gun. Unless you regard the illegal settlements as defensive ?" - You are no military expert, what you wrote is just your lone opinion. And its a total lie. The military presence is defensive - internal against your terrorist friends and allies, and externally against the new Iranian threat. And there's nothing new about it: at the time of the 2nd Temple the land was ploughed "with one hand on the ploughshare and the other on the spear".

Not only are you no military expert ("ex" as in "has been", "spurt" as in "drip under pressure"), but neither are you a legal expert. You claim "illegal settlements". I say they are legal. The only relevant fact is: they are there!

As for 5 million Arabs - I would offer them internal autonomy. The majority would accept this, conditional to good living conditions - to
which they are both entitled and welcome.


amber

13 October, 2010 - 10:40

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More misogyny from stephenb - what's worse, he thinks he's witty.

stephenb, you DID SAY every single one of those things, and a quick look back will confirm your use of racist and classical antisemitism in trying to delegitimize the Jewish state.


Avraham Reiss

13 October, 2010 - 10:44

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stephenb, your comments, as with the comments of others of your anti-Israeli persuasion, are best evaluated against the backdrop of international activities in the last 43 years.

Some of the world's best brains - mostly American - have tried to find solutions here - and failed.

It started back in 1967 with the U.N.'s Gunnar Yaring.
Rogers, Albright, Kissinger, James whatisname, and more followed. None came up with a viable solution.

And you think that with a post or two you can offer salvation to the Middle East?


stephenb

13 October, 2010 - 12:01

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its a pretty good deal israel has.......you also have 5 million plus Arabs that arent going away.And the world is running out of patience with Israel over this.

Internal autonomy, dear god that is a desperate fantasy that even Bibi and Lieberman woke up from. And didnt the South Africans try that one ? South Africa is a democracy , the blacks get to vote in their lil autonomous Bantustans.

The majority of Arabs west of the river would accept this....

I cant beleive you are remotely serious Avrahim.

We are told that the two state solution cant come about because the Palestinians keep refusing it. Yet we are now told that they would accept internal autonomy. i.e they would accept an offer far worse then Isreals very worst two state like offer and accept open ended Israeli rule. koff

No Avrahim these fantasies are not one of your options. There remains just two. There can be two states west of the river which can only come about with the new state having borders very closely on pre 1967 lines, and with a division of Jerusalem.

Failing that the evolution of one state with the arabs of course having full civil and political rights , freedom of movement etc. One big happy family.

Time is not on Iraels side the world is changing. " Plucky little Israel " has become a very distant memory in the outside world and every brick planted in the west bank makes the two state option ever more impossible. So I wish you joy of your one big happy family which wont be a jewish state will it ? Not with five million Arabs and maybe up to a million jews who couldnt care chit for a political expression of Zionism and who just want to be of the land ( the real demographic time bomb ) in it


mattpryor

13 October, 2010 - 12:13

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I hate it when people claim to speak for the general population. What stephenB has offered is his opinion.

the world is running out of patience with Israel

No, it isn't.

Time is not on Iraels side the world is changing. " Plucky little Israel " has become a very distant memory in the outside world

No, it hasn't.

Do not presume to know what others think.

Most people, other than those that care about Jews and Israel or, in your case, have a negative obsession with Jews and Israel, don't care about the issue one way or the other.


amber

13 October, 2010 - 12:22

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matt, precisely. stephenb frequently claims to spek "for the world" or "what the world think".

Great to have such grandiose ideas about oneself, isn't it?


amber

13 October, 2010 - 12:25

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Avraham - this stephenb character has made several outright antisemitic remarks. He claims Israel blackmails Germany fro money, that the Jews need Jesus to overturn a few tables, that the Jews encourage stereotypes about themselves and he accused a JC journalist of leaving the JC for 30 pieces of silver - just like Judas. Oh, and he's obsessed with demonizing Israel.

He is an antisemite.


telegramsam

13 October, 2010 - 12:27

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Amber, I think you'll find that StephenB said that the journalist in question had taken the Murdoch shilling. Hardly 30 pieces of silver. Other than that, tho. You are right, so why embellish?


amber

13 October, 2010 - 12:28

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telegramsam, he said 20 [sic] pieces of silver.


mattpryor

13 October, 2010 - 12:32

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I can confirm that amber is correct, I remember the post.


Avraham Reiss

13 October, 2010 - 12:43

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telegramsam,
"A bit arch, Avraham, especially given that in any yeshivah the number of paedophiles is about the same as in any male-child-only environment. And how many times have yeshivah students been told to keep the abuse quiet?"

Have you ever spoken the truth in your life? Give sources for what you claim or back off. I spent a number of years in a Yeshiva dormnmitory, and NEVER EVER heard of such a thing. Name three Yeshivot in which you have proof of what you claim ...

I'm again saying that what you wrote above is a lie, until you bring proof.

In Judaism, we say that someone who wants to lie will speak in generalities, which is what you have done.

Maybe I should accuse people who falsify email adresses and then deny writing them are latent (or active) paedophiles? .... duh, what's the use?


mattpryor

13 October, 2010 - 12:50

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Avrahim I think that looking at the US, there are a lot of Christians who are very supportive towards Israel.


Avraham Reiss

13 October, 2010 - 12:56

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mattpryor, not only do I agree with you, but a member of my family has personal benefit from an organisation donated by such good Christians (maybe I'll explain some other time).

Not even 1% of Christians are erring Catholic priests.

However, there is still debate here in Israel as to whether or not the good, pro-Israel Christians are so because they expect us to convert to Christianity in the future 'latter days'.

My own approach is to accept their friendship until we see a solid reason not to.


stephenb

13 October, 2010 - 12:56

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ha Avrahim you are getting there. My being a catholic is a matter of cultural background and tongue in cheek self deprecation. Its all got nothing to do with me.

You are just so right the christian psyche is inherently, profoundly and necessarily anti semitic. And its not really about who killed the b*gger.

For the christian spyche the jews are a bad dream the body in the cellar. A reminder of the jewishness of the very origins and the shameless theft and distortion of a very jewish thing. The christian psyche just wishes the jews would go away and isent averse to helping them along the way with a holocaust once in a while.Probably cuz the jews know too much and are always likely to expose their bull chit.

None of this has anything to do with me. My calling myself a catholic is merely to distinguish myself from scots presbytarian settlers. o)) o))

Which makes it all the more puzzling that modern jews seem to think the christians, full envy, fear and hatred of jews as they are, are their friends and muslims are their enemy.


amber

13 October, 2010 - 13:04

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stephenb is now trying to be mr nice guy about Jews. So we can ignore his frequent antisemitic comments now.

His presence on these blogs is intolerable.


Avraham Reiss

13 October, 2010 - 13:08

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"Which makes it all the more puzzling that modern jews seem to think the christians, full envy, fear and hatred of jews as they are, are their friends and muslims are their enemy."

It is a conundrum, but explained by expediency. In 1948 Christian countries voted in the UN to recognize the State of Israel, while Muslims attacked us.

The holocaust - made possible by 2,000 years of Christian anti-semitism in Europe, shamed them into helping Israel here and there. Protestant America has been an enormous aid to the State.

Theologically, some pqarts of Christianity are regarded by Juadism today as idol-worship, while Islam is very close to Judaism.

Ah, there's the rub.

But having outed yourself, stephenb, you really should progress upwards and onwards, to newer and fresher pastures, leaving us poor Jews, nebech, to our misery.

Shalom, Chaver!


mattpryor

13 October, 2010 - 13:09

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Avrahim: I think stephenB's comments above can be disgarded as nonsense, as usual. Take note of the anti-Semitic comments about "modern jews" and Muslims towards the bottom though - he slips these things in thinking no-one will notice.

As for Christian attitudes, I can only speak for myself. I was christened Church of England, but I'm not a church goer. My view is that Judaism is essential, endangered and precious and that humanity will be lost without it, and that the Jewish people and religion must be protected and preserved by people of good will of all faiths. Israel is essential to the long term survival of the Jewish faith and must be staunchly defended.


Avraham Reiss

13 October, 2010 - 13:12

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mattpryor, not only could one not ask more from any Christian, but I wish more Jews would think like you!


telegramsam

13 October, 2010 - 13:13

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Avraham, as my Israeli cousin, Mivrakshmulik, would say, you appear to be in denial -- and I don't mean the river. If you check here, here, here and here regarding sex abuse, you'll see what I mean.


Avraham Reiss

13 October, 2010 - 13:16

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telegramsam, I am beginning to understand your obsession with homosexuality, but it doesn't interest me in the slightest, and is totally off topic. Go take a cold shower.


mattpryor

13 October, 2010 - 13:16

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Why is telegramsam still banging on about child abuse and why does s/he spend so much time attacking his/her own religion when Judaism has enough enemies as things are?


telegramsam

13 October, 2010 - 13:16

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And Avraham, about those allegations you make about false emails, that same MivrakShmulik would say that it is definitely a case of achlu li, shatu li. IOW, someone else ate it and drank it and I didn't notice. You really should learn to take responsibility for your own actions -- such as besmirching many of the hard-working, dedicated staff of this paper. My Israeli niece, Meital Guru, would say: "Tihiyeh gever, titkapel."


stephenb

13 October, 2010 - 13:18

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Amber said all arabs in the land of Israel should be eliminated


telegramsam

13 October, 2010 - 13:19

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Err..Matt, I am not attacking my own religion. I am pointing out to young Avraham that when he makes allegations, that these things can boomerang.


stephenb

13 October, 2010 - 13:21

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Ha Avrahim methinks its you that is outed. Like christians
only hate jews so they are ok but muslims dont like the state of israel so christians are our friends and muslims are our enemy.

i see.........


mattpryor

13 October, 2010 - 13:26

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telegramsam: If I were Jewish and had concerns about such a sensitive and difficult issue I would bring it up in private, among co-religionists, not on a public internet forum.

You spend an extraordinary amount of time digging out your own dirty laundry to hang out in public.

I have to wonder why.

Strange man/woman you are.


amber

13 October, 2010 - 13:31

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stephenb, I never said that - and would never think that.

Try as you might, you will not sweep your antisemitic comments under the rug. Your presence here is appalling.


telegramsam

13 October, 2010 - 13:31

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My dirty laundry, Matt? Why is it my dirty laundry? Are Jews a monolith? Should all Jews agree with one another? DO as each other? It has been said, and I don't necessarily subscribe to this view, that there isn't much difference between the philo-semites and the anti-semites, because they both place the Jews on some sort of pedestal.


mattpryor

13 October, 2010 - 13:41

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Yes, it's been said many times before (to me) by anti-Semites who wish to silence people who defend Jews.

If you don't agree with it then why say it?


telegramsam

13 October, 2010 - 13:46

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It's also said by many Orthodox Jews (that's where I heard it). Are they antisemites, too? So again, I ask why is it my dirty laundry? Are Jews a monolith? Should all Jews agree with one another? DO as each other?


stephenb

13 October, 2010 - 14:01

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you so did


telegramsam

13 October, 2010 - 14:02

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Sorry, Matt, but you appear to be lumping all Jews together. Jews aren't a monolith, any more than Christians or Muslims, or Jains, Buddhists or Hindus are. We are human and suffer or enjoy all the frailties and foibles of the rest of humanity. Please don't place us on a pedestal.