The need for civility

Matthew, you have not responded to my question on the previous thread:

"Please cite a link to support your contention that "before the General Election you were predicting that the Lib Dems would stop any Coalition Government from doing exactly what it is now doing on universal jurisdiction"

And cut the moral high ground crap. get your own house in order first. Are these LibDems "civil" when it comes to discussing Israel?:

Lord Phillips of Sudbury
Jihad Jenny
Chris Davies
Madeleine Kirk
Lord Wallace

Was Jihad Jenny 'civil' when she accused Israel of being the “cause of terrorism” and said the West’s treatment of Muslims was due to “Holocaust guilt” and the power of the pro-Israel lobby?

Was she civil when she demanded an investigation into allegations of organ harvesting by the IDF in Haiti?

I say - civilly - that you are absurd./b>

Was Lord Phillips being 'civil' when he said: "Europe cannot think straight about Israel because of the Holocaust and America is in the grip of the well-organised Jewish lobby”?

and invite each other to have a PET scan?

I was worried for Millis' health, what's wrong with that? The fact that he cannot understand correctly a two-sentence text is worrying, for a journalist, isn't it?

By the way, what step did you reach in Tonge's expulsion procedure from the LibDem. Maybe I have a brain problem too, but I don't remember reading an answer. Did you state even if you started the procedure?

Was Lord Phillips being 'civil' when he said: "Europe cannot think straight about Israel because of the Holocaust and America is in the grip of the well-organised Jewish lobby”?

If Phillip=ps said that, then Phillips is a ridiculous fool! ;)

Jose: You should know by now that it is important for the Liberal Democrats to maintain a number of anti-Semites in the House of Lords so as to shield themselves against accusations of being in the control of the Zionist lobby.

Being accused of being part of the Zionist conspiracy (by anti-Semites) is worse than being accused of harbouring anti-Semites, it seems.

Or perhaps they are worried they will lose their radical left-wing support base if they take the correct moral stance and boot out the Jew haters. Although it may be a bit late for that!

Guys, you condemn yourselves from your own mouths by expressing yourselves so vituperatively. Is that really the way in which adults express themselves when they are trying to win a debate with other adults? How do you imagine it comes over to the people to whom you are seeking to appeal?

Yes, I agree that all politicians should aim to express themselves with civility.

Jonathan, comments were closed on my previous post...But since you ask (again), I have looked again at that piece that you mention, that you wrote on Cifwatch. I think that it clearly implies that you thought that the Lib Dems in government would oppose any clarification of the law on universal jurisdiction - and that is not what has happened! The Coalition Government is legislating on it right now, with the public support of the party leader, Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg. Is this not something to be pleased about, rather than angry about?

You and others posted loads of online comments about how awful it would be if the Lib Dems entered a Coalition Government, and your prophecies of doom have been proven quite unfounded.

Matthew save the wear and tear on your keyboard they can't help themselves

nick clegg is still a god damned off the scale irredeemable freaking liar though. Having got that off my chest back to civility...

Happy winter solstice and festivals of ight to you and yours Matthew

Yes, I agree that all politicians should aim to express themselves with civility.

Like Tonge does about Israel?

Should we all understand that even the so-called "LibDem Friends of Israel" do not even endeavour to have Tonge expelled from their party, of which she will remain a permanent stain?

Jonathan Hoffman is a hero within the pro-Israel community in Britain Matthew. I wish I had his courage. People that come on these blogs to snipe at and libel him (and do not even have the guts to do so under their own name) deserve no courtesy, and they won't get any from me.

Oh, I was being rude to you, Matthew, but perhaps not rude enough - because you haven't noticed it. But then, LibDem types live in some parallel reality anyway.

I will not take pompous lectures from members of a party that refuses to acknowledge the presence of Jihad Jenny among their ranks.

No member of your sick party is fit to shine Jonathan H.'s shoes.

Was that clear enough for you?

Not so much a fool, as a revolting Jew-hater.

That was to Jose, re the vile Philips.

"Is that really the way in which adults express themselves when they are trying to win a debate with other adults?"

You are hereby invited to take a long walk down a short pier, you ridiculous and pompous person. Sort out your sick party first, then lecture to others.

Matt if you think yawnyman is a hero you to go on Armchairs hero discernment course. Iris show Matt who jonathan is

What language is the above drivel written in?

I have no intention of shining anyone's shoes...

Well, you'd have to bend far too much down from your mile-high moral high horse, MH.

Matthew joni types as Yoni when he fears that what he is typing might step over the line.

I dont need your organisation...I shined your shoes...Ha the changeing of the guard

Only Jonathan is fit to shine Yawny's shoes This is just so freaking funny I dont think I can bear it for too much longer

Seriously, are Jonathan Hoffman and Yoni THE SAME PERSON? Oh dear.

And do you believe what Armchair Quarterback says Matthew?

In your own words: Oh dear.

Seriously, are Jonathan Hoffman and Yoni THE SAME PERSON?

Seriously, you believe Armchair's stupidities? Matthew, you must be the shame of your college!

And what about Tonge? I am very worried that the LibDems' so-called "Friends of Israel" are paying lip service to friendship.
Certainly you will agree that an antisemite like Tonge deserve to be expelled, but if no one does anything, she will remain the stain of the party.
So when do you kick start the expulsion process?

Please, don't look so eager to answer.

"Seriously, are Jonathan Hoffman and Yoni THE SAME PERSON? Oh dear."

Err, no, you terribly intelligent person.

I have never said anything about seeking to expel the person concerned from my party. She thrives on publicity. It is not my intention to give her any. If you Google my name and hers, you will see that I have been opposing the things that she says for years. I want to counter her influence, not give her ever more attention.

Good, I am glad that we have successfully rebutted the allegation that Jonathan Hoffman sometimes blogs under the name of Yoni.

More mealy-mouthed nonsense from MH:

"She thrives on publicity. It is not my intention to give her any."

No, only the publicity of strutting around as a LibDem peer.

"I want to counter her influence"

Of course. Not expelling her is JUST the way to do it.

"If you Google my name and hers, you will see that I have been opposing the things that she says for years."

Wow! No, really? I mean, you actually oppose a deranged Jew-hater who supports genocidal mass-murderers? I am impressed. I really am. What you have done is such amazingly important work, and it has made ALL the difference. Expelling her from the party, thereby restoring some semblance of integrity and just plain basic decency to the LibDems pales by comparison. Give yourself a lovely shiny gold star and ask your teacher to draw a REALLY big smiley face in your exercise book.

Do you have the slightest idea how ridiculous you are?

Matthew I am sfraid so. Sickening isen't it ?Iris show Matthew who jonathan is

I have never said anything about seeking to expel the person concerned from my party.

That is exactly what I'm saying and that finally proves that your "friendship" with Israel is just lip service. You are not even able to expel an antisemite from your party.

What a joke! You indulge in waffle and think nobody will notice. I think even Chamberlain was more clever!

That's not saying much, Jose.

Matthew I think you are too naive to be allowed on this blog site or even to be allowed out of bed unsupervised but, I can help you..... and to think you have ambitions to be a lobby fodder member of parliament

Gut you are a decent perso I can tell.....So why do you you engage withy these nut jobs ?

Poor Armchair! Like Millis, he lives in a fantasy world, where everyone is everyone else. I mean in the Zionist side, of course!

Which once again proves my point that Jonathan is hounded and libelled on these blogs by liars with their own agenda. Armchair Quarterback is just one of them. Here's what else he has to say about Mr Hoffman:

How interesting that Yawny posts the bile that is the real jonathan so jonathan can take the risks with dispensible online names and continue to play the " retarded little child " under his real name and enjoy the immunity that the family's retarded child invariably enjoys.

Why should anyone be "civil" to people who would post things like that? Why should we "debate" with them?

The reason Jonathan gets so much stick, by the way Matthew, is because he is so vocal in his defence of Israel and Anglo Jewry. So who do you think might be behind such attacks? If you were as courageous or as vocal you would be taking similar flack. Maybe one day you'll need to be. I hope then you will also have people willing to speak up in your defence.

Quarterbrain talks about nutjobs ... LOL.

So why do you you engage withy these nut jobs ?

Matthew, you've got a supporter... Unfortunately, not really a big friend of Israel.
And look! Talking about civility, he is not too brilliant either!

Do us a favour, Matthew: come back to us when, at last, you will have started an expulsion procedure against Tonge. Until then, it is useless that you blog here. You won't earn any respect from Jews by using the same empty words that Clegg throws at Israel now that he is in the government.

It's more honourable to be out of the government than to get there by getting the vote of Israel-bashers.

Yes, I DO have the slightest idea how ridiculous I am. If only the rest of you had a healthy sense of your own ridiculousness, the world (and this website) would be a better place. And yes, Neville Chamberlain was almost certainly cleverer than I am, even if his appeasement policy ended in disaster.

Found a free wifi at Heathrow and I am shocked, shocked I tell you to see the incivility here.
Just one thing, tho: I notice that some of you are all up for attacking those who hide behind pseudonyms or do not give their full names if those people are ideologically opposed to the attackers. They often have very little to say about those from their own side who hide behind pseudonyms or don't give their full names.
That's double standards, and as Jose (Anthony Posner -- and as he is banned he can't complain about privacy being compromised) says, double standards are a sure sign of anti-Semitism.
I'm not sure that Yoni1 is Jonathan. JH doesn't need a pseudonym to be abrasive and abusive.

Amazing stuff I love it

Well, I blog under my own name and no other. I think that anyone who blogs under a silly pseudonyn is doing something faintly daft, but if people wish to be anonymous or pseudonymous, so be it!

That's double standards, and as Jose (Anthony Posner -- and as he is banned he can't complain about privacy being compromised)

HAHAHA, continue doing this, I love it. All your inuendo and direct libel are reported to the moderator.

Isn't that a wonder? Telegramsam disappears, Joe Millis appears... Be careful, El Al could report you to the security personnel for in-depth search!

And yes, Neville Chamberlain was almost certainly cleverer than I am, even if his appeasement policy ended in disaster.

Well, I let you imagine how eager voters could be to elect someone even less intelligent than Chamberlain.
You're like the guy falling frow the 20th floor and saying as he passes every floor on the way down "so far, so good!".
As a politician, one should know the consequences of their actions and, in your case and that of Chamberlain, your inaction.

Sorry Matthew, but you're just a joke.

So, Jose, if it is not a rude question - what is your full name? Is Jose actually your first name, and do you have a surname? You're perfectly entitled not to tell us, if you'd rather not. You are entitled to keep your privacy online, if you wish.

Matthew said "But since you ask (again), I have looked again at that piece that you mention, that you wrote on Cifwatch. I think that it clearly implies that you thought that the Lib Dems in government would oppose any clarification of the law on universal jurisdiction - and that is not what has happened!"

http://cifwatch.com/2010/05/01/the-nightmare-shidduch/

Matthew, how did you get to Oxford if you cannot understand English? Either that or you are being utterly mendacious (if you do not regard that as 'civil'..... deal with it).

My piece was obviously about the LibDems qua LibDems. In government alone. Not about the LibDems as the all-purpose tail on the Conservative dog.

What amuses me the most is that Jose and others like him actually imagine that I am going to care about their attempted insults! Keep 'em coming, guys.

There you go, Jonathan, proving my point again. You're unable to engage with my arguments without attacking me personally - and that's a major deficit in your skills as a debater. If you are any kind of a debater, you ought to be able to best me in debate without resorting to insults, e.g. the suggestion that I cannot understand English. It is precisely this OTT approach to the pro-Israeli debate that has led so many people to conclude, Jonathan, that you are so gung-ho as actually to alienate the very people that you are trying to win over.

What do you need my full name for? All you need to know is that I use only one login on the JC. Even the fact that Jose is my real name is irrelevant.
Armchair is the reincarnation of a banned user and Joe Millis appeared suddenly after one of his pseudos was banned (thanks in part to me).

If you were a bit more intelligent, Matthew, you'd just have a look at their profile and see when they registered. And you would know who came recently there to libel others.

In other words, as I'm sure Jonathan knows, there are many people in our community who believe that when Jonathan delivers pro-Israeli messasges, the audience is often distracted and alienated by his overly trenchant tone, meaning that they don't get the message and so are left unconvinced by his arguments - meaning that his efforts to deliver the message can sometimes be counter-productive to the cause of winning more people over to the pro-Israeli side of the argument.

Anyway, I have other things to do tonight, so I'm signing off. I'm sure you'll manage without me for the rest of the evening. Good night.

What amuses me the most is that Jose and others like him actually imagine that I am going to care about their attempted insults!

Well, as long as you are telling us that you are a friend of Israel and at the same time you won't ever try to expel Tonge from your party, I'll repeat that you are just a joke.

Please come back another day. Your waffle is not welcome.