The log in all our eyes


By jandrsimonson
December 28, 2010
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Israel and the Arabs that live between the river and the sea are in a relationship no matter how much one or other or both may wish it wasn't so.

It is a broken relationship that is not directly fixable, and this is true of all relationships. Like a marriage one party can only improve themselves and be receptive to and open to efforts made by the other party. It's stupid to say, well I try but she still keeps on squeezing the toothpaste tube at the top.

Tough you cant't do anything about that, she will do what she will do,and be what she will be. You can only keep on improving yourself and remain open. The analogy breaks down of course because you ultimately have the option of leaving.

This option isn't open to the middle eastern Arabs and Jews.The Arabs aren't going anywhere despite jon cohens fantasies, and the Jews aren't going anywhere either which makes it all the more urgent

The genius of The New Israel Fund is in recognising this and focussing on working toward a better Israel,so that it might become emotionally and psychologically capable of making peace with it's neighbours.At the moment Israel isn't so emotionally and psychologically capable.

If the people charged with negotiating on the Arab side are not engaged on a similar exercise then too bad. Nothing you can do about that except keep on improving and practising receptiveness.

Unfortunately Israel is content to deteriorate rather then improve by whatever criterion you choose, in particular in respect of social and liberal values. It is content to justify its deterioration by comparing itself to the worst possible cases beyond its shores, and saying " but look those guys over there are worse "

This blog site is a microcosm of the whole thing. Look through the blogs, they are all bout Iran did this, Turkey did that, Saudi Arabia did the other.

SO WHAT ? WHO CARES ? Look at one of the blogs posted today and see Jon Cohen ask what would have happened to the Israeli demonstrator had this been Iran ? How stupid, how irrelevant can it all get ?

We all know what any workable situation is going to look like. There will be two states. The Palestinian States borders will roughly reflect the border situation prior to the six day war.Jerusalem will be shared either by division or by common sovereignty, in either case the Holy Basin will enjoy some kind of special arrangement probably under international supervision.

EVERYONE KNOWS AND ACKNOWLEDGES THIS. The EU, The US EVERYONE.

Whether the green line is a border or something other than a border is irrelevant. It became a de facto recognised border. Again EVERYONE including every publisher of every atlas,and every overseas Ambassador to Israel KNOWS THIS.

The Palestinians , the majority at least, are moving into a psychological state that would facilitate what everyone knows is the only viable outcome. And please don't quote me what Abbas said 20 or 30 years ago. Otherwise I may remind you that Netanyahu was elected on a " no Palestinian state" platform two short years ago

Some more irrelevant observations

" There never was a country called Palestine "

" There already are 23 Arab States in the middle east and only one Jewish state"

I'll think of some more later

COMMENTS

jose (not verified)

28 December, 2010 - 15:53

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2 points

What is irrelevant is the whole text, as usual with jandrsimonson.
To make peace, you need two partners. At this time, there is only one: Israel. 'Palestinians' refuse any negotiation. The only condition they ask: give us all we want immediately and perhaps we shall accept to negotiate the rest. But what rest?

The fact is that it is impossible to make peace with 'Palestinians' anyway, even if they wanted. Why? Because the part that doesn't want won't accept and will continue provocations until Cast Lead II.

Peace is dependent on 'Palestinians' and them only. Israel has always been ready for peace, whenever there was a partner to make peace with. Egypt got the Sinai back, Jordan got out of troubles.
Syria rejected negotiations and Israel kept the Golan. 'Palestinians' rejected negotiations and they are partly under occupation.

We all see that Muslim countries love to bully their neighbours, not only the Jews. Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Sudan are all involved in much bloody conflicts than Israel. Maybe it's in the water. Or not.


jose (not verified)

28 December, 2010 - 16:46

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1 point

By the way, remove that log in your eye, while I take care of my straw.


jandrsimonson

28 December, 2010 - 17:33

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-3 points

"By the way, remove that log in your eye, while I take care of my straw."

Just about says it all really


Jon_i_Cohen

28 December, 2010 - 18:26

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2 points

Exactly! an apt title "The log in all our eyes"; with logs in his eyes jandrsimonson is totally blind; blind to the reality that there will never be an independent Arab State called Palestine.

http://www.thejc.com/blogpost/jordan-is-palestine-the-reality-gathers-pa...

http://www.thejc.com/blogpost/jordan-is-palestine-says-jordan


jandrsimonson

28 December, 2010 - 18:30

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-3 points

Thats cool Jon so there will be one state between the river and the sea. With approximately the same number of Jews and Arabs in it. Unless you have something else in mind ? Care to share it with us ?


jose (not verified)

28 December, 2010 - 18:38

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2 points

Just about says it all really

Of course, since I am not a supporter of moral relativism.


jose (not verified)

28 December, 2010 - 18:39

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2 points

Unless you have something else in mind ? Care to share it with us ?

Very simple: Jordan will administrate whichever part of Judea Samaria Israel releases. And Gaza will be Egyptian problem.


jose (not verified)

28 December, 2010 - 18:41

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2 points

As we said, peace is ONLY dependent on 'Palestinian' side, which never made any effort to reach it. Including not making the efforts required in the Oslo Accords.

Israel, on the other hand, fulfilled many of them.

Whose eye got the log and whose's got the straw?


Armchair Quarterback

28 December, 2010 - 18:47

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-3 points

"Very simple: Jordan will administrate whichever part of Judea Samaria Israel releases. And Gaza will be Egyptian problem."

Posner and there are fairies at the bottom of your garden right ?


Jon_i_Cohen

28 December, 2010 - 18:57

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2 points

If both jandrsimonson and armchair quarterdick had the capacity to read the links posted above they would learn that the quote from jose:-

"Very simple: Jordan will administrate whichever part of Judea Samaria Israel releases. And Gaza will be Egyptian problem.",

is the natural outcome to resolve the current problem, there is no other realistic alternative or answer.


Armchair Quarterback

28 December, 2010 - 19:03

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-3 points

jon are these the same fairies at the bottom of your gareden as at the bottom of Posner's or different fairies ?


jose (not verified)

28 December, 2010 - 19:09

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2 points

Posner and there are fairies at the bottom of your garden right ?

No, but there is a peanut where your brain was supposed to be.


Jon_i_Cohen

28 December, 2010 - 19:10

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2 points

The usual left-wing, useful idiots, spurious demographic nonsense from jandrsimonson.
Instead of spewing out the tired old cliches, why not do some research?
If you did you will find that of the current population in Israel of 7.6 million people, 75.5 percent are Jews, 20.2 percent are Arabs (mostly Muslim) and the remaining 4.3 percent comprise Druze, Christians and others of non-denomination.

If you have the capacity, the link is here:-

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Facts+About+Israel/People/SOCIETY.htm


jose (not verified)

28 December, 2010 - 19:10

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2 points

And remember that you are the only cuckoo who sees "Posner" here!


Armchair Quarterback

28 December, 2010 - 19:11

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-3 points

Well what are we waiting for ? Whats all the fuss about ? We just need Israel to make up its mind which bits of " judea/ samaria it will "release", the Jordanians and Egyptians to do their bit and the west bank and gaza arabs to accept it and it could be all over by tomorrow lunchtime. I just can't believe a genius of my humble selfs stature didn't think of this first

Thanks guys


Yoni1

28 December, 2010 - 19:14

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2 points

When Simonson prefaces anything with the idiotic declaration "as we all know ..." (which fallacy is that again?), you know that what will follow will be the most ludicrous tripe.

For example, Jerusalem under shared sovereignty is nonsense. Only a fool like Simonson can't see that. The two sides hate each other. It would take at least wholesale de-Nazification of the PLO to reach a situation where a sane Israel would agree to that, and even that is highly unlikely, for excellent reasons. Can anyone sane imagine that Israelis would agree to 'Palestinians' having any sort of sovereignty over Rehavia and Beyt Ha-Kerem? Don't be a plonker all your life, Simonson, it's getting to be embarrassing.

And who cares what the utterly corrupt EU thinks? It's none of the EU's effing business. Never was, never will be.


jose (not verified)

28 December, 2010 - 19:14

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2 points

All the estimates about natality bomb is based on a stupid assumption that natality will remain constant in the population groups, and that no natural limit will be reached (ie that the land can feed unlimited numbers).
Both of these assumptions are false, of course. While the industrial Israel can feed the growing population, the backwards PA can barely survive, not even mentioning Gaza, without external life-support.


Jon_i_Cohen

28 December, 2010 - 19:19

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1 point

yoni is right, as for the EU?? not only is it none of their business but with "Baroness" Catherine Ashton Foreign Minister, on the world stage, I don't think there is any credibility at all, what she knows about the ME I could write on my small toe nail.


jose (not verified)

28 December, 2010 - 19:22

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3 points

When Simonson prefaces anything with the idiotic declaration "as we all know ..." (which fallacy is that again?)

It is appeal to numbers. Simonsam dispenses himself of having to prove something he asserts as a premise. As such, he is probably also practiciing "begging the question". Two fallacies in one!


Armchair Quarterback

28 December, 2010 - 19:22

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-2 points

IT may not be any of the EU's effing business so I guess Israeli prime ministers, in the light of this fact will quit callig up EU member state prime ministers on a regular basis begging for diplomatic support.

Anyway Yonithan you ommitted to mention the United States


Yoni1

28 December, 2010 - 19:27

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1 point

Quarterdick doesn't understand that diplomacy is a game of horse-trading. It has nothing to do with the point I made.
Pity the teachers of such a thicko - and his parents.


jose (not verified)

28 December, 2010 - 19:29

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2 points

We just need Israel to make up its mind which bits of " judea/ samaria it will "release", the Jordanians and Egyptians to do their bit and the west bank and gaza arabs to accept it

They already accepted it with little trouble for 19 years, did you forget? Oh yes! You thought that was "Palestine", before, of course!

No one doubts it will be difficult, Wheelchair, just that it will be their problem, not Israel's anymore. And the world will be fed up with the 'Palestinians' that will not anymore be refugees. It's just a matter of 30 years. Nothing for any country.


jose (not verified)

28 December, 2010 - 19:36

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2 points

I guess Israeli prime ministers, in the light of this fact will quit callig up EU member state prime ministers on a regular basis begging for diplomatic support.

Diplomatic support from EU members? Why not? A number of EU members support Israel, but are paralysed by a polarised ethnic Arab voting minority.
At the moment, only Spain and Ireland lead the anti-Israel minority in the UE, with UK as a part-time member. Not a match to France, Germany and Italy. Greece that one was on the anti-Israel side (mostly because of its links with Turkey and its left-wing government) is slowly understanding where its strategic interest in the area is.


Armchair Quarterback

28 December, 2010 - 19:40

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-3 points

no scuse me its non of the EU's effing business who cares about spain or effing ireland


Armchair Quarterback

29 December, 2010 - 06:04

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-1 points

"It's just a matter of 30 years. Nothing for any country."

Why 30 years ? If Jordan and Egypt are up for it, and the Palestinians accept it we seem only to be waiting for Israel to make up it's mind which bits of the territory it will release. Why ca't we get on with it tomorrow ?

Dear god what a ludicrous fantasy


Armchair Quarterback

29 December, 2010 - 06:22

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-1 points

But at least and at last we have the nut jobs fantasy spelt out explicitly

Let me recap: In 30 years time Israel will get around to making up its mind which few bits of scrubland it is willing to " release" and in the meantime the world will quietly sit back and allow the occupation to continue.

The Arab population will be herded into these ares. Jordan will take over the administration of them and Egypt will re assume responsibility for Gaza

And this is the fantasy fairy tale peace that Israel has always been willing to make ? It seems the nut jobs on here are nuttier then I have even been able to imagine, despite all the evidence

pssstt let me let you into a little secret. Time is running out on Israels independence of action. The outcome will be what the world led by the United States wants and what the world wants has been made perfectly clear. And its not willing to wait 30 years either


jose (not verified)

29 December, 2010 - 12:48

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0 points

And this is the fantasy fairy tale peace that Israel has always been willing to make ?

No, that's the only way Israel has found to get rid of the 'Palestinians' who do not want peace.

It seems that your reading comprehension is reaching new lows again.

The outcome will be what the world led by the United States wants and what the world wants has been made perfectly clear.

Pssstt, let me tell you that US want exactly the same thing as Israel: get rid of the 'Palestinians'. In 30 years, no more "right of return" (a 'Palestinian' fairy tale), so no 'Palestinian' will ever be allowed to settle within 1949 green line. Jerusalem is "bye-bye" after 19 years of abuse by Jordanians. So the problem will be with EU. Will they finally understand that those who don't want peace are clearly those who reject all negotiations?
Given the intelligence that they showed until now, it can be doubted.


Armchair Quarterback

29 December, 2010 - 15:12

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-1 points

"Will they finally understand that those who don't want peace are clearly those who reject all negotiations?"

You mean they won't go along with the delusional fantasy as outlined above ? Maybe if you offered to share your medication with them ?


Jewish American...

29 December, 2010 - 15:15

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-1 points

The US wants what it always wants ie what it perceives to be in its best interest. In other words, the US wants an outcome pretty much as outlined by Simonson.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fh1PG_U_DxU

Doesn't really sound like we want the Palestinians to go away does it?


Yoni1

29 December, 2010 - 15:19

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0 points

You don't speak for the USA, dimbo.


Armchair Quarterback

29 December, 2010 - 15:38

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-1 points

No she doesn't Posner does


Yoni1

29 December, 2010 - 15:48

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1 point

Up your medication, quarterdick, or you'll never get laid.


jose (not verified)

29 December, 2010 - 17:46

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0 points

No she doesn't Posner does

LSD abusers sometimes have this problem of paranoidly seeing the same enemy everywhere.


Yoni1

29 December, 2010 - 17:51

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0 points

There are plenty of paranoids who never take LSD. Most antisemites fall into that group.


Armchair Quarterback

29 December, 2010 - 18:03

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-1 points

yeah but I can fly can you ?


Watchful Iris

29 December, 2010 - 18:42

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-1 points

Boys, boys....you're all pretty.


Armchair Quarterback

29 December, 2010 - 19:10

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-1 points

aw but Iris surely some of us are prettier than others ?


Watchful Iris

29 December, 2010 - 19:17

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-1 points

I dunno...watching Yonithan at his demos makes me...erm.....


Armchair Quarterback

29 December, 2010 - 19:54

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-1 points

iris behave this is a family blog site.I haven't seen jonathan at his demos so you have the advantage on me


jose (not verified)

30 December, 2010 - 04:41

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1 point

yeah but I can fly can you ?

Yes you can. Try it again, please, from the 40th floor. That would give us a break.


jose (not verified)

30 December, 2010 - 04:43

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1 point

this is a family blog site.

As far as I know, Wheelchair, you are not part of that family. If you were, then I would have to find out were those missing genes come from.

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