The furious insignificance of Hamas


By mattpryor
October 4, 2010
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A bit of background for those who don't know - Mosab Hassan Yousef was the son of one of the founders of Hamas and worked as an undercover operative for Shin Bet for many years. He converted to Christianity and eventually got out of the region, wrote a book documenting his experiences called Son of Hamas - highly recommended reading. He also maintains a blog which gives a unique and fascinating perspective into the situation in Gaza and the conflict. He recently applied for, and was granted, political asylum in the US.

This is the first part of his latest blog, entitled "The furious insignificance of Hamas", which I hope he won't mind me reproducing here:

Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,

Creeps in this petty pace from day to day

To the last syllable of recorded time,

And all our yesterdays have lighted fools

The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!

Life’s but a walking shadow, a poor player

That struts and frets his hour upon the stage

And then is heard no more: it is a tale

Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,

Signifying nothing.

These words, written four centuries ago, describe Hamas and life in the Gaza Strip today.

People hear news from the Middle East, and they ask me, "Mosab, what is Hamas doing? Where are they going?" And I tell them that Hamas is doing nothing and going nowhere, because Hamas, for all its zealots and college graduates, is ignorant.

This doesn’t mean it’s not dangerous. But the most dangerous thing about Hamas is that it doesn’t know. It doesn’t know it’s going nowhere. It doesn’t know how to build anything more than a little clinic with only one doctor and insufficient medicine, which only gives it a humanitarian face, concealing its true identity.

It doesn’t know how to govern itself, much less a nation. It’s not that its members are uneducated; they’re just ignorant. They have no wisdom or common sense. They are unteachable, unreachable and unimpeachable, because their mind is made up and they will hear nothing except what comes out of their own mouths. Hamas believes it is right and the rest of the world is wrong. That it is righteous and everybody else is bad, because Allah said so.

When I was in the Israeli prison at Megiddo, Hamas behaved like a mini-regime, controlled by thugs and tyrants. The maj’d, its security wing, tortured men until they made up anything, denounced anyone to make the pain stop. And the maj’d were so stupid that they believed the confessions. I read those confessions. They were ridiculous, and virtually all of them were eventually disproved. I remember wondering what it would be like if Hamas ever gained control of the government in Palestine.

I don’t wonder anymore.

Nearly five years ago, they won the elections. When the international community refused to recognize the legitimacy of their victory, a furious Hamas soaked the streets with Fatah blood.

And what have they done with Gaza since then? Nothing. They have built no infrastructure and formed no government departments. They have not advanced Palestinian culture or improved Palestinian society. Prime Minister Ismail Haniya was responsible for the maj’d in prison, and he rules Gaza the same way today.

Everyone is gagged and crippled by fear. For my people in Gaza, Hamas police are like Hitler’s Wafen-SS, Mao’s Red Guard, the Kremlin’s KGB or Ceaucescu’s Securitate. Anyone can be kidnapped and tortured into confessing that they are collaborating with Israel.

In a recent news conference, Abu Abdallah Lafi, a Hamas internal security official, said, "we have arrested many," including women, who he called "a real danger to the unity of the people and their resistance" against Israel. Hamas spokesman Ehab Al-Ghsain boasted that his people had obtained "serious confessions and uncovered many collaborators who stood behind assassinations of some leaders of resistance and implemented policies of the enemy’s intelligence service against our people."

I promise you that all of these “serious confessions" were obtained by unrestricted torture. And the "collaborators" have absolutely nothing to do with the Shin Bet.

Al-Ghsain told reporters that these collaborators planted bombs at training camps and government offices and helped to coordinate IDF raids and assassinations. But I know from 10 years working in the highest levels of the Shin Bet that this is not how Israeli intelligence operates.

Hamas knows nothing of Israel. It does not know how to govern. It does not know how to create or build. It understands nothing about human rights. It knows only how to destroy. Hamas is a colony of hornets in a sack. And Gaza is the sack.

"Nothing is more terrible," said German philosopher Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, "than ignorance in action."

Original URL here but I'll post part two later.

COMMENTS

mattpryor

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 11:55

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2 points

Here's part two:

The furious insignificance of Hamas – Part II

In addition to governing by kidnapping and torture, Hamas controls hundreds of tunnels that admit goods through Egypt into Gaza. Hamas gives the best to its own and sells the rest at black market prices to Palestinian families, half of whom are unemployed. It steals international medical aid and sells it in its own pharmacies. Hamas even bulldozed the homes of nearly 200 families and stole their land to build an Islamic religious center, similar to the proposed 9/11 mosque in New York City.

Last year, the UN was forced to stop all aid to Gaza because Hamas stole blankets and food meant for my people. This summer, Hamas broke into the offices of nongovernment charities, including United Nations partner organizations, and shut them down, cutting off resources to 80 percent of Gaza’s residents.

When Hamas campaigned in 2005, one of its two planks was to clean up PA corruption, especially the gangster rule of Fatah strongman Mohammad Dahlan. But Hamas is just as corrupt as the PLO was under Yasser Arafat and his cronies and the PA is today under Mahmoud Abbas.

During an interview with a Middle Eastern journalist, Abu Mohammed, a secular businessman with close family ties to the old Fatah security services, said, “After the takeover, people thought it might get better if the religious guys were in charge of the money, that security would improve and corruption would end. But they’re just as corrupt. If you’re not in Hamas, you get nothing. If anyone does anything, they are arrested, tortured or killed. Just like with the Israelis. Except the Jews always give you a lawyer.”

Yet, in an interview September 27 with CNN’s Nic Robertson in Damascus, exiled Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal shamelessly told the world that, “Hamas’ strategy relies on reaching a way of determining our own destiny, taking back our land, defending our people against the occupation and the settlements and then working on establishing a true Palestinian state that will have true sovereignty.”

Is this how you defend your people? By destroying their homes to build your mosques? By stealing their international aid to line your pockets? By kidnapping and torture and forcing your religion on them? Is how you allow them to determine their own destiny?

When Meshaal is not blaming Israel for everything bad in Gaza, he blames the international community who he accused of “stand[ing] in silence and do[ing] nothing while the Palestinian people suffer, while they get killed, and they get oppressed.”

The Israelis have a word for that. It’s called chutzpah!

Hamas doesn't get it. It cannot see what lies ahead if it continues along its present course.

For 14 centuries, the Arab world has been a major contributor to the world in mathematics, astronomy, medicine, architecture, horticulture, philosophy, art, music, literature. But Hamas, now that it has its opportunity to show the world how it can govern, is using Islamic sharia law to crush the life, soul and creativity out of the people who gave it their trust.

Women are forbidden to ride on motorcycles with men. Male hairdressers are not allowed to work in women’s salons. “Modesty patrols” check cars for men riding with unrelated single women. A female Palestinian journalist was arrested at the beach for laughing in public and not wearing a head covering. Female lawyers are banned from courtrooms, unless they wear a hijab. Hamas has shut down Internet cafes, movie theaters and bars where young people hang out, as well as a hotel and restaurant whose owners refused to enforce the new law against women smoking nagilas (water pipes).

One reporter from Abu Dhabi wrote that people in Gaza “seem to be losing any sense of hope and increasingly, according to social workers, smugglers and even the police, turning in massive numbers to cheap narcotic tablets smuggled through tunnels from Egypt. A sense of lethargy and hopelessness now pervades almost every aspect of life here.”

If a government oppresses its people, if it makes a big deal out of petty things like this, how can it work together with the community to resolve bigger issues of health, education and the future of the Palestinian people?

Hamas has become the Taliban of Gaza. Since its emergence in 1994, the Taliban battled Afghan warlords and the Afghan government to gain power. But when it finally attained its objective, it was unable to build any society. Its culture was non-culture. Its modus operandi was to oppress and destroy. Its GNP was drugs and terrorism.

Even under the best conditions, Gaza will remain a hot spot on the Mediterranean, like Somalia in the Horn of Africa. Sunni Islam filled the void created by the revolutions and counter-revolutions that plagued Somalia since the early 1990s. Last year, the Somali parliament approved sharia law nationwide. As a result, the Islamists will control the country beyond the foreseeable future. And they too will produce only fear, hatred and destruction.


stephenb

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 17:01

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-4 points

Boo


zair (not verified)

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 17:12

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-3 points

so glad you're still here stephenb, Joe ISM has not been so fortunate it would seem ;(


stephenb

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 17:45

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-3 points

maybe he and jonathan have walked off hand in hand into the sunset ?


Yvetta

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 18:54

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5 points

What an indictment of a regime, Matt!


stephenb

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 19:21

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-4 points

im a lil confused i keep hearing on these blogs that the folks in gaza are doing just fine olympic size swimming pools, new mall, shops and markets awash with produce etc etc etc an since hamas is seemingly doing such a fine job running the place there is no need to lift the seige

which is it ?


Yvetta

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 19:30

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2 points

Why are you still here, stephenb? Why has the JC not banned an obvious Jew-baiter like you? They have summarily "closed" my thread asking why they permit "taunting antisemitic blogs and bloggers" - I never did get a response from them.
Stephen Pollard has done the correct thing in banning ISM threads, but the JC's failure to deal with you, stephenb, is very strange indeed.


telegramsam

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 19:44

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0 points

Why are you still here, stephenb?

Is that an existential question, Yvetta? Why are any of us still here? Are we here? Or are we there? Or are we a figment of our own or someone else's imaginations?
Leave it, leave it, 'e's not worfit
Duf-duf-duf-duf,duf-duffa,duffa.


Yvetta

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 20:01

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2 points

Yeah, I knows where yuz been an' all, me ol' matey.


stephenb

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 20:06

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-3 points

if it were an existential question i think it would have been why do you still "be" stephenb ?

I am not sure though existentialism wasnt my speciality so sam may be right


ibrows

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 21:14

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-4 points

nothing to do with the Israeli blockade then Matt? Even though Israel illegally occupied Gaza in 1967, and that is what led to Hamas creation

http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=52996


ibrows

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 21:16

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-5 points

You sure he's not talking about Israel

'It understands nothing about human rights. It knows only how to destroy' (and i might add occupy and steal Palestinian land)


amber

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 22:59

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3 points

ibrows, Israel's gaining Gaza in 1967 was not illegal at all - in a defensive war, territory gained is completely acceptable, and sometimes necessary. Perhpas you can refer to the law which in your opinion has been violated? What you fail to address is why Egypt occupied gaza illegally between 1948-67 (yes, Israel took Gaza from Egypt, not "the Palestinians" who had not been invented as a national identity yet - hence no calls for an independent Palestinian state between 1948-67).


amber

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 23:01

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2 points

stephenb is a racist, and it is absurd that the JC continues to accept his odious presence here. Why was Joe ISM banned, but not stephenb? Where is the logic?


amber

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 23:02

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2 points

Of course none of the haters address the substance of Matt's post.

Thanks Matt, excellent as usual.


happygoldfish

Mon, 10/04/2010 - 23:44

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1 point

it's both, stephenb

stephenb: I'm a lil confused i keep hearing on these blogs that the folks in gaza are doing just fine olympic size swimming pools, new mall, shops and markets awash with produce etc etc etc an since hamas is seemingly doing such a fine job running the place there is no need to lift the seige
which is it ?

israel and egypt allow more than enough food and other supplies into gaza, but hamas couldn't care less about distributing it fairly, or even honestly

so some shops and markets are "awash with produce", and some gazans are in dire poverty

who do you blame for that, stephenb … hamas or israel/egypt?

Yvetta: Why are you still here, stephenb?

yvetta, why are you wasting space asking questions like this, instead of just answering stephenb?

amber: stephenb is a racist, and it is absurd that the JC continues to accept his odious presence here. Why was Joe ISM banned, but not stephenb? Where is the logic?

oh, give-it-a-rest, forever-amber!


stephenb

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 01:40

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-3 points

who do you blame for that, stephenb

Im not sure who to blame really though I do recall someone saying they were gonna " put them on a diet " and doing some very detailed calculations about how many calories per day per head would keep them just above starvation level but not kill them.

Now that might have been hamas or it might have been the israeli govt I cant remember.

im going to get to the bottom of this And while im at it im going to do some research and figure out when an israeli was last killed by a lentil bomb


happygoldfish

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 08:06

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2 points

stephenb, that is a racist lie

stephenb: I do recall someone … doing some very detailed calculations about how many calories per day per head would keep them just above starvation level but not kill them.

… nobody has done any such thing

why have you written this?

as you say, there are "shops and markets awash with produce" …

so who do you blame for some gazans being in dire poverty, hamas or israel/egypt?


mattpryor

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 10:12

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3 points

I would recommend that some people here give Son of Hamas a read before spouting their opinions, to be honest.

I don't suppose they will though...


Jon_i_Cohen

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 10:23

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2 points

Rubbish - as usual from ibrows;

Hamas was established in 1987; it is an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood movement.


telegramsam

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 10:26

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-1 points

Indeed, JIC, it was established in 1987, during the first intifada and was helped by the Israelis as a counter to Fatah. What you sow, etc.


yankeeuxb (not verified)

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 15:33

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0 points

So the fact that Gaza has been repeatedly bombed to s**t by the IOF has no bearing on the fact that Gaza is in a mess?

Or the fact that the IOF has imposed a seige on Gaza has no bearing on the condition of Gaza's infrastructure?

Oh dear, oh dear . . . . . .


stephenb

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 15:33

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-2 points

happy like i say im going to get to the bottom of it and when i have the full details sources etc i will let you have them

and why do you say racist lie ? lets assume it is a lie ( which it isesnt ) why cant it be just a lie or at the very worst an anti israeli lie. If I had told lies about the soviet union would that be anti soviet union or anti Slav ?


stephenb

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 15:36

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-1 points

but in the meantimr i withdraw the calorie counting comment unless and until i can back up my memory of it with more substantive details etc


stephenb

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 17:21

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0 points

I hereby withdraw the withdrawal.........

" we put them on a diet "

" The idea is to put them on a diet but not to make them die of hunger "

Dov Weisglas Aial Sharons chief of staff,

In other words the STATED POLICY of the Israelis is to cause the people of Gaza as much non fatal misery as possible ( non fatal apart from the occasional Operation cast lead of course ) by restricting food supplies,educational materials etc etc and by wilfully destroying the regular economy.Even the fisherman are harassed and restricted so as to prevent them from making a proper living.

So in answer to your question happy I blame Israel.

This is all in the name of Israeli security of course, as can readily be seen by the things Israel has refused to let in and the things Israel has refused to let out

SOME THINGS ISRAEL HAS REFUSED TO LET IN....building materials, electrical appliances,car parts,fabric,needles,light bulbs, candles, matches, books,musical instruments,crayons,clothing,shoes,mattresses, sheets,blankets,cutlery,crockery,cups,glasses,pasta,lentils,tea,coffee,sausages,semolina, milk products,coriander.

I guess a combination of pasta , lentils and coriander could make a pretty explosive cocktail.

THINGS ISRAEL HAS REFUSED TO LET OUT....Everything including people

In other words the siege of Gaza has about as much to do with Israeli security as has the settling of the west bank..ie sweet FA


mattpryor

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 17:48

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0 points

...according to the Guardian and Independent, and Weisglass denied it.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3216790,00.html

Believe who you want.


stephenb

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 18:52

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0 points

will do


amber

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 19:10

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0 points

stephenb confirms his antisemitism with the comment that a lie told about the Soviet Union could be construed as anti-Slav if lies about Israel are antisemitic.

Stephenb, I wasn't aware of a racist campaign against the Soviet Union, which had large populations which were not Slav. There are also Slavic nations which are not part of the Soviet Union - and pretty much are exclusively Slav. If one argued against every Slav nation and told lies about them, then yes, one would have to wonder why the Slavic nations were all singled out, and why lies were being told about them.

Your intellectual poverty is truly amusing.


happygoldfish

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 19:21

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0 points

stephenb, that is still a racist lie

stephenb: I do recall someone … doing some very detailed calculations about how many calories per day per head would keep them just above starvation level but not kill them.

it is a lie because nobody, not even weissglas, has done calculations (detailed or otherwise) to keep the gazans "just above starvation level"

(in other words: it is a lie because it is untrue)

it is racist because it implies israelis would, indeed do, find such behaviour acceptable

so why did you write it?

antisemitism is not the only form of racism, being anti-israeli (as opposed to merely being anti the israeli government) is also racism

also, if someone who does not normally tell or repeat a lie thinks it's ok to do so about israel, that is racism anyway

(and of course you give no source for your … contradictory? … quotes; while i seem to recall that the first is correct, i don't accept the second at all, and anyway neither supports your original statement … you made this up

as i have said here several times about anti-palestinian lies, if what you are about to write would be racist if untrue, then don't write it if you can't check it!)

stephenb: If I had told lies about the soviet union would that be anti soviet union or anti Slav ?

it might be … it would depend on the exact lie


stephenb

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 19:24

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0 points

and matt.......not only the guardian and independent ...the quote was reported very very widely indeed in many news outlets....its pretty clear he said it......

As for him subsequently saying he didnt say it...

" well he would say that wouldnt he " Mandy Rice Davies

if you really want me to compile a list of sources i will do so

further this is very very compatable with other things that he has said

further that is precisely what israel did

Amber honey how are you feeling today ? better i hope


stephenb

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 20:07

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0 points

well if i held someone captive in my cellar and decided to restrict their food supply so as to keep them hungry but not starved to death wouldnt i have to do some calculating ?

my memory of the exact words was hazy on the original post as i admitted and withdrew the comment to check it out. having done so it is clear that the substance of what i said is perfectly true.

This was widely reported in Israel and hardly anyone was either shocked or outraged

it is ludicrous to say being anti what the state of israel has become rather than anti a particular israeli govt is racist.

example......many irish nationists are anti the Republic of Ireland because they dont accept the legitamacy of a 26 county republic. They arent against the govt of any particular day but against the republic ie the state.

The split in the IRA in the late 60's that gave rise to the provisionals was not as is commonly supposed about disagreements over an armed struggle but rather over the official IRA's intention to recognise the sovereignty over the 26 counties of the Dublin govt.

Are these people anti Irish racists ?

for the record there is probably no bigger fan of jewishness in the whole world than me. I am depressed about what Israel has become, and I am anti "it"

PROPHETIC VOICE

" My awareness of the essential nature of Judaism resists the idea of a Jewish State with borders,an army,and a measure of temporal power no matter how modest.I am afraid of the inner damage Judaism will suffer, especially from the development of a narrow nationalism among us against which we have had to fight even without a Jewish state "...ALBERT EINSTEIN

discuss

it might be..it would depend on the exact lie

might be what, anti soviet or anti Slav ?


amber

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 22:27

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0 points

stephenb is an antisemite - and, it turns out, a misogynist as well.

He has said Jews encourage stereotypes about themselves, has asaid Jews need Jesus, and dowmplayed antisemitism by making spurious comparisons with Israel and the Soviet Union.

He is an racist. Why oh why does the JC tolerate him?


happygoldfish

Tue, 10/05/2010 - 22:36

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0 points

stephenb: well if i held someone captive in my cellar and decided to restrict their food supply so as to keep them hungry but not starved to death wouldnt i have to do some calculating ?

erm no!

anyway, weissglas had no connection whatever with the food supply to gaza, so the comparison would be …

"well if someone held gilad shalit captive in a cellar and decided to restrict his food supply so as to keep him hungry but not starved to death, wouldn't a hamas spokesman have to do some calculating ?"

and the answer is no, obviously not

my recollection of the newspaper reports at the time is that weissglas was at a private meeting, not recorded at the time, probably slightly drunk, and made one offhand flippant remark about the gazans benefiting from a diet

nobody was sure exactly what he said, and anyway the food supply had nothing to do with him

stephenb: … it is clear that the substance of what i said is perfectly true.

that weissglas said something about a diet is perfectly true

you have deliberately fleshed it out with a lie: with weissglas making "some very detailed calculations about how many calories per day per head would keep them just above starvation level but not kill them"

you deliberately added this lie to make his offhand flippant remark look considered and reflective of policy

the "substance" of what you said is that weissglas's remark was reflective of policy, that was why you said it

it is beyond me why a certain sort of person thinks that, when talking about israel, it's acceptable to say something true, deliberately add a lie to it, and then think he can get away with saying that it wasn't a lie, or even that ok it wasn't true but that doesn't matter "because the substance is true"

stephenb, the published statistics for food etc going into gaza show that more than enough food has always gone in, so that in itself shows that weissglas was not stating policy

remember, you created this lie trying (ok, successfully) to avoid answering …

happygoldfish: israel and egypt allow more than enough food and other supplies into gaza, but hamas couldn't care less about distributing it fairly, or even honestly

so some shops and markets are "awash with produce", and some gazans are in dire poverty

who do you blame for that, stephenb … hamas or israel/egypt?

any answer, now?

stephenb: it is ludicrous to say being anti what the state of israel has become rather than anti a particular israeli govt is racist.

telling the truth against a country is not necessarily racist (though it would be if, eg, you selected only that country for mention, and no similar or worse country)

telling a lie against a country is (usually) racist … why would someone lie about a country (that country) if not because it is that country?

and the same applies to repeating other people's lies (or one's own "hazy memory") without checking, when one knows they are not a reliable source …

telling (or repeating) a lie about a country is almost always racist

stephenb: I am depressed about what Israel has become, and I am anti "it"

then tell the truth, stephenb, don't embroider it with convenient "hazy memory", do check anything whose source is unreliable, and if you do get carried away, don't try to defend what you said


stephenb

Wed, 10/06/2010 - 11:38

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1 point

Happy you are starting to come across as Ambers not very much brighter sister.I know this isent the case so I can only assume you are feeling a little desperate about your previously entrenched certainties.

weinglass had nothing to do with the food supply to gaza..

weinglass was the prime ministers chief of staff and made these observations at a meeting attended , among others by the director of shin bet, senior generals and the then foreign minister Livni, convened specifically to discuss the response to Hamas winning the elections in Gaza. He was perfectly well placed to relay what the governments policy was and duly did so. This policy was then duly carried out with the possible exception of the banning of lentil bombs which I guess is ok.

We have heard that he was joking and that he was drunk. Does he always get drunk at such important meetings ? There is numerous examples of him saying revelatory things. Is he ALWAYS drunk ? Lets hope he didnt and doesnt have his finger on the nuclear button.

You keep calling me a liar because i made a refence to calorie counting which i withdrew until i had checked it out.

In January of this year there was an Israeli court case
during which the government confirmed that estimates were made of how many calories Gazans need.

The court also obtained a government document entitled
" Food consumption in the Gaza strip- the red line " which sets out the minimum calories needed by age and sex.

How ludicrous to maintain that the policy referred to by weinglass could be implemented without making calculations

And please dont think you are going to get away with talking to me this way in front of our six children


stephenb

Wed, 10/06/2010 - 12:11

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0 points

" telling the truth about a country is not necessarily racist ( though it would be ,if,eg you selected only that country for and no similar or worse country )

This is so off the scale jaw dropping stupid that its hard for even a rhetorical genius such as my humble self to know where to begin in responding to it. You have been reading the ludicrous European Union definition of anti semitism I can tell and not even understanding that correctly. But I will try.

A reference to a country in the context of a discussion of that country is racist if other countries arent mentioned. How absurd. what race are we anti if we make an adverse comment about Brazil and dont mention any other country ? If we refer to an Israei crime we are guilty of double standards and racism if we dont in the same breath and sentence mention every other crime in the world.

Only someone totally obsessed with race could say such a thing, and it is beginning to seem that for Israelis and Israel apologists it is always always always about race.How many jews here how many arabs there.Well that is ok. What isent ok is for you to demand that the rest of us join you in your race obsession or assume that we are already there with you.

One day when I am feeling well rested I will tell you why many people , including myself, bang on about Israel so much, much more then we do some other countries some of which are much much more reprehensible. And NO you do NOT know the answer.


amber

Wed, 10/06/2010 - 12:19

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0 points

stephenb, you are a misogynist and a racist.

Why is this hater tolerated on the JC?


happygoldfish

Wed, 10/06/2010 - 14:25

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1 point

stephenb: you keep calling me a liar because i made a refence to calorie counting …

no, you invented a reference by dov weissglas to calorie counting, to indicate a policy

you have pretended to check out this lie and you have of course found it to be non-existent, and instead come up with a much later document which was "not used for policy-making"

stephenb: In January of this year there was an Israeli court case
during which the government confirmed that estimates were made of how many calories Gazans need.
The court also obtained a government document entitled
" Food consumption in the Gaza strip- the red line " which sets out the minimum calories needed by age and sex.

of course you give no source for this , but i assume you mean http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8654337.stm

BBC News has seen documents, submitted to an Israeli Court …
In one document, Israel … confirms estimates were made of how many calories Gazans need, but says these were not used for policy-making.

this is hardly surprising, since israel has never limited the quantity of food and other goods entering gaza, only the types of goods

since israel has never limited quantity, the precise (or any) calculations you invented would be irrelevant

israel has allowed unlimited food into gaza, and the only relevance of checking the calories would be to inform the international red cross (or other charities) that they should supply more food, in case the inept hamas administration failed to do so

as i said before, and as you're still trying to avoid answering

happygoldfish: israel and egypt allow more than enough food and other supplies into gaza, but hamas couldn't care less about distributing it fairly, or even honestly

so some shops and markets are "awash with produce", and some gazans are in dire poverty

who do you blame for that, stephenb … hamas or israel/egypt?

any answer, now?

stephenb: telling the truth about a country …

i'm not going to reply to this lengthy post of yours concerning when truth is racist

you're trying to draw attention away from the fact that you told a lie which was racist …

you asked me why i said it was racist, and i was good enough to reply to you … i'll repeat the relevant part here, since you've gone to such lengths to ignore it …

happygoldfish: telling a lie against a country is (usually) racist … why would someone lie about a country (that country) if not because it is that country?

and the same applies to repeating other people's lies (or one's own "hazy memory") without checking, when one knows they are not a reliable source …

telling (or repeating) a lie about a country is almost always racist

stephenb: I am depressed about what Israel has become, and I am anti "it"

then tell the truth, stephenb, don't embroider it with convenient "hazy memory", do check anything whose source is unreliable, and if you do get carried away, don't try to defend what you said


stephenb

Wed, 10/06/2010 - 15:01

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Amber , oops sorry I mean happy, I introduced the concept of a lie hypothetically. I didn't lie I was under the impression that weisglass had provided the calorie counting info I was immediately unsure of my ground and retreated . It turns out he wasnt.

weisglass said the plan was to put them on a diet. The info about working out minimum calorie levels came not from weisglass but from govt documents. the idea referred to by weisglass was duly put into practice.

I am not surprised that you are not going to address my points about when truth or sincerely held beliefs are racist. Thats a bit tough for you I know. Its much easier to hide behind your endless lie about my lying. I got it wrong. weisglass didnt provide that info other docs did.

lets cut to the chase happy. why did israel forbid lentils and pasta ? tell us


mattpryor

Wed, 10/06/2010 - 15:07

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"Only someone totally obsessed with race could say such a thing, and it is beginning to seem that for Israelis and Israel apologists"

There's that word again. Who exactly are you referring to? I have seen you, newsmax, and yankeeuxb all use the word to denounce anybody that speaks up for Israel.

You have turned an article discussing Hamas's governance of the Gaza Strip into yet another attack on Israel. You are a cheap propagandist Stephen, and I imagine you must have a very sad life if this is how you get your kicks.


stephenb

Wed, 10/06/2010 - 15:15

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In summing up members of the jury..... the prime ministers chief of staff tells us the plan is to put them on a diet

govt docs tell us detailed calculations were made about what they needed as a" minimum"

the blockade is intensified and a whole range of foodstuffs are banned including lentils which are the most effective foos imaginable in a nuytition crisis situation, the biggest bang for the nutritional buck. So that after the invasion of iraq when the allies feared there might be mass starvation they simply shipped in container loads of lentils.

The aid agencies repeatedly tell us that only about 25% of food medicine etc that is needed is getting in.

members of the jury go away and consider your verdict

Matt / Happy why did israel ban lentils ? the people want to know


mattpryor

Wed, 10/06/2010 - 15:27

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StephenB I don't know.

More to the point why does Hamas steal food and medicine donated by the international community and resell it to their friends at a profit?

Why does Egypt not allow ANYTHING into Gaza?


amber

Wed, 10/06/2010 - 15:33

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stephenb is a racist and a misogynist. JC, why is he here?


Watchful Iris (not verified)

Wed, 10/06/2010 - 15:35

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Was that a pre-recorded message?


stephenb

Wed, 10/06/2010 - 15:36

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members of the jury are you agreed on your verdict ?

yes your honour

foreman please read the verdict

guilty your honour cuz if they had done their calorie counting to make sure the folks in Gaza got enough to eat like defence counsell claims lentils would have been the thing they would have been most keen to let in

court will agjourn and reconvene for sentencing


amber

Wed, 10/06/2010 - 15:46

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The Jc should not be a forum for antisemites. stephenb should go.

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