Tear Gas: the Truth and the Lies


By Jonathan Hoffman
January 6, 2011
Share

In a recent post JFJFP and IJV signatory Aaron Dover claimed "Amnesty International has reported 40 deaths from CS tear gas inhalation alone from December 1987 to June 1988."

Here is the truth about the Amnesty claim:

http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2011/01/lying-about-tear-gas-deaths-lis...

The facts are clear. No one can find a single documented case in scientific literature of anyone dying from CS tear gas outdoors, ever. (I've been looking.)There are very, very few documented cases of CS tear gas killing people even indoors, at concentrations and over time periods that are hundreds of times more potent than any possible outdoor scenario. Anyone bringing studies of isolated tear gas-related deaths of people who were stuck indoors with high concentrations for long time periods as some type of proof that Abu Rahma was killed by tear gas in fresh air is, knowingly, lying.

Dover also wrote "I would like to thank the brave Israeli reporter Lisa Goldman (who was an eyewitness to events at the demo and was gassed herself) for this valuable piece of information."

Seems that this Lisa Goldman is not averse to mudslinging when she is losing an argument:

http://twitter.com/lisang/status/23065338669170688

COMMENTS

jose (not verified)

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 07:06

Rate this:

6 points

These antisemites that use the blood libel technique to libel Israel are no new to us. The fact that some are accidentally Jews and some even pretend to be "Zionists" even as they show exactly the contrary attitude of a Zionist, is totally irrelevant.
They spread propaganda lies like any other antisemite, they walk in violent protests with other openly antisemites, they are antisemites.


jose (not verified)

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 14:09

Rate this:

5 points

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4010368,00.html

Both sides have concluded that Abu Rahmah hadn't died from inhalation of tear gas at the Bilin protest but from the results of the medical care she received along with medical problems she suffered from prior to the demonstration; Judea and Samaria Division Commander Nitzan Alon revealed Friday.

What do they mean by "both sides". The antisemites on these blogs do not believe it even when the Arabs say the Jews are not guilty!

LOL! Jonathan and my other Zionist friends on these blogs: we where right from the start!
Milligramsam, Walinuts, Wheelchair: we won't wait for your apologies. On the top of your "moral high grounds", you'll never understand why you have to apologise.


Jonathan Hoffman

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 14:33

Rate this:

4 points

Aaron Dover IJV, JFJFP, MA (Oxbridge) has gone very quiet, wonder why .......


jose (not verified)

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 16:07

Rate this:

4 points

The story was smelling too bad, even for the 'Palestinians'. Nobody would believe this was a second Al Durah affair, with the permanently deluded that it was true.
No one, even with a small brain, could believe that someone can die of breathing a little tear gas from a riot 150m from there.

We have seen yet another 'Palestinian' hoax trying to come out then totally discredited in early stages. With another cameraman and a Charles Enderlin, we would have had another beautiful story of the bad IDF and the nice rioters in tutus, throwing flowers to the bad soldiers. With a music of the Young Relvolutionary Guards of Mao, that would have been perfect!


jose (not verified)

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 16:37

Rate this:

3 points

Hey Jon, I think Milligramsam is trying to make others believe that I am Gerald Steinberg of NGO Monitor!

I'm flattered, but it is quite ridiculous, unfortunately. I make enough errors to prove that I'm not an English native speaker. So that Milligramsam's attempt is just making himself ridicule... Once more!


Joe Millis

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 16:58

Rate this:

-4 points

In Israel, the two pseudos -- Jose/Gerald and Yoni the Tourettes -- would be called shefanim (rabbits) or actually shefanfanim (little rabbits) because of their lack of backbone.


Yoni1

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 17:00

Rate this:

1 point

Oh, really, tosser? I served in the IDF for 4 years, tosser.


jose (not verified)

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 17:02

Rate this:

3 points

In Israel, the two pseudos

There isn't two pseudos, Milligramsam, remember? "Jose" is not a pseudo, and there is no "Gerald" except in your paranoid brain. "Yoni" is probably also a real name.
In Israel, where I live and where you don't, they call me "Sir".


Yoni1

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 17:04

Rate this:

2 points

If Millis and his little Jew-hating friends have the slightest trace of a backbone, never mind basic honesty, they would now apologise profusely and admit that the story they swallowed with such enthusiasm was an antisemitic blood libel to begin with (of course, that's why they swallowed it so enthusiastically ...).

Will they? I wonder.


Yoni1

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 17:05

Rate this:

1 point

Yoni is most certainly my actual name. But Millis naturally assumes that everybody is as dishonest as he is.


jose (not verified)

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 17:12

Rate this:

2 points

Milligramsam tries to avoid admitting he has once again libelled Israel and IDF by suggesting it killed an innocent, non-violent person.
We now know how this will end: Israel and IDF innocent but their accusators, judges and executioners will never make apologies for believing the pseudo-human rights activists.
Blood libel of the worse kind, Jew Flu-stricken.


jose (not verified)

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 17:15

Rate this:

2 points

Remember that Milligramsam used a pseudo before, to mudsling Jonathan, then came with his real name to crticise those who use a pseudo, even when it is not so.


jose (not verified)

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 17:36

Rate this:

2 points

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/idf-chief-in-west-bank-pal...

Another confirmation. From Haaretz, the reference journal for the Lefties.


Armchair Quarterback

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 18:22

Rate this:

-3 points

Nitzan Alon, for all we know, may very well be a most honourable gentleman. But as the IDF chief in the west bank he is, in effect , the alleged killer.

An alleged killer saying " I didn't do it " isn't generally regarded as conclusive is it. Further he just states it and doesn't refer to any evidence

None of us know what the cause of death was and may never know much as I hate to puncture jonathan and posners orgasms


jose (not verified)

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 22:07

Rate this:

3 points

An alleged killer saying " I didn't do it " isn't generally regarded as conclusive is it.

First there is no alleged killer. There is an alleged killing.
As all antisemites, Wheelchair wants a Dreyfus.
First establish that there has been a killing...

I hate to puncture jonathan and posners orgasms

Do you have trouble having an orgasm when you think of Posner, Wheelchair?


Yoni1

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 22:28

Rate this:

1 point

"But as the IDF chief in the west bank he is, in effect , the alleged killer."

What a disgusting antisemitic shit you are.


Armchair Quarterback

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 06:32

Rate this:

-2 points

Oh how wonderful if you two would grow up

The allegation is that she was killed by the IDF

i.e. by inhaling tear gas from a grenade fired by the IDF

Its just an allegation that has been denied and which probably will never be proved true or false

If the allegation were true then Alon would be ultimately responsible.

On the west bank Alon is where the buck stops

The point is merely that Alon declaring that the IDF didn't do it without directing us to some evidence does not in anyway move the matter forwards, backwards or in any other direction

I am sorry this is do difficult for you to grasp


jose (not verified)

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 06:56

Rate this:

2 points

The allegation is that she was killed by the IDF

Then prove it. For the moment all sides agree that she didn't die of that, Wheelchair. Moreover, no one ever died of inhaling tear gas in an open area. So that's first a falsehood and second as statistical impossibility.
There goes your alleged killer: only an idiot would consider you have a case.

If the allegation were true then Alon would be ultimately responsible.

And if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle too.

I am sorry this is do difficult for you to grasp

For you, everything is too difficult to grasp, especially when Israel is innocent, Wheelchair. This has a name: antisemitism.


jose (not verified)

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 07:07

Rate this:

2 points

Oh how wonderful if you two would grow up

Oh how wonderful if you suddenly grew a brain!


Yoni1

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 09:04

Rate this:

0 points

"Oh how wonderful if you two would grow up"

What, to become antisemites like you? No, thanks!

"The allegation is that she was killed by the IDF"

For which there is no shred of evidence.

"I am sorry this is do difficult for you to grasp"

Oh, we have no difficulty grasping your agenda of demonising Israel with nil evidence.
It's you who has difficulty grasping that the onus is on you to prove that the IDF did anything wrong, which you haven't done.
Moron.


aarondover

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 12:49

Rate this:

-3 points

Mr Hoffman

I'm delighted to see that you were so humiliated by our last discussion that you have dedicated this posting to Lisa Goldman and myself.

I will take this as the closest thing to an apology for your appallingly racist and misguided "arab hoax" allegation that we are likely to see from you.

I hope you will read and enjoy this article from the Huffington Post on the matter.

Israel's Latest Attempt to Blame Dead Victim Fails

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mj-rosenberg/israels-latest-attempt-to_b_8...


Yoni1

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 13:44

Rate this:

1 point

So the revolting Bendover quotes antisemitic screeching from the Huff ... big fucking deal!

"As critical as I am of Israel's policies toward the Palestinians"

You mean, those uppity Joos are STILL defending themselves against Arab terrorists? Oh, the chutzpah!

"I still believe in Israel itself"

Patronising drivel from a patronising turd. Israel doesn't need the 'belief' of some idiot scribbler.


Jon_i_Cohen

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 13:47

Rate this:

4 points

The "oxbridge educated, top in physics"(aaron)bendover continues to push "the hoax" using an appalling, leftist article he found on The Huffington Post.

The Bilin protester died from previous health problems, not tear gas inhalation.
The Palestinians are now accepting that Jawaher Abu Rahmah died from prior causes that had nothing to do with the IDF and tear gas.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4010368,00.html

An understanding over the death of Bilin protestor Jawaher Abu Rahmah last week is taking shape. Both sides have concluded that Abu Rahmah hadn't died from inhalation of tear gas at the Bilin protest but from the results of the medical care she received along with medical problems she suffered from prior to the demonstration; Judea and Samaria Division Commander Nitzan Alon revealed Friday.

He announced that an investigation into the affair would be officially completed by both sides soon. Alon stressed that the IDF has no intention of changing its crowd dispersion methods during violent riots.

Doesn't say much for an "oxbridge education", just a bad case of "Jew-Flu".


Joe Millis

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 14:16

Rate this:

-2 points

Yonatan hashafan. Four years as a shin gimmel in the kirya. That's all they'd allow someone so autistic and suffering from tourettes


aarondover

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 14:17

Rate this:

-2 points

The bio of the "antisemitic screecher" who wrote the article. I can't believe how many antisemites populate the ranks of AIPAC ;)

M.J. Rosenberg is Senior Foreign Policy Fellow at Media Matters Action Network. Previously, he worked on Capitol Hill for various Democratic members of the House and Senate for 15 years. He was also a Clinton political appointee at USAID. In the early 1980s, he was editor of AIPACs weekly newsletter Near East Report. From 1998-2009, he was director of policy at Israel Policy Forum.

By the way, the IDF also like to kill old men in bed if you didn't read about it.

http://972mag.com/when-killing-an-old-man-is-%E2%80%9Creturning-fire%E2%...


Joe Millis

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 14:27

Rate this:

0 points

No Aaron they don't like to kill old men in bed. I suspect an inquiry will find tragic errors there. As to tear gas, I'd like to think that despite the hyperbole of the ideologues of both sides - of whom you are one - the jury's still out.


Jon_i_Cohen

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 14:36

Rate this:

3 points

For the "oxbridge, top in physics educated (aaron) ben dover's benefit
The IDF have already stated:-
"The IDF expressed regret for the death of a Hevron Arab in the house of one of the escapees and ordered an investigation of the shooting. The results are expected next week".
this happenned in the heat of an opration to re-capture 6 terrorists with blood on their hands, 5 were captured the 6th remains at large.
You can read about the crimes of these terrorists here:-
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/141599


Yoni1

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 14:44

Rate this:

0 points

Millis, please ask your mummy or your remedial teacher to explain to you what 'autism' and 'Tourette's' actually mean, so you'd see how thick you really are.

Yes, I was a substitute shin gimel on my long-term base for probably a total of 3 days during my first month there. I have been to the Kiryah on maybe 2 or 3 occasions on official errands for my CO.
I suspect that you posted this drivel because that has been your sum total of military experience. Except that of course, anyone (other than idiots like Millis) knows that you can't actually be a shin gimel for 4 years: it doesn't happen. You work out why.


Joe Millis

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 14:53

Rate this:

-3 points

Yonatan hashafan got special dispensation to be a shin gimmel at the canteen of the kirya because they couldnt bear his tourettes. Luckily the idf is open to helping such people. Makes them feel part of Israeli society.


jose (not verified)

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 14:57

Rate this:

3 points

The antisemite aarondover (or is it Dobrzynski?) is again supporting the blood libel.
One person get killed? It's murder! Errors never happen with aarondover, and you know why? Because aarondover is superior to every other on this planet.


Jon_i_Cohen

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 15:09

Rate this:

2 points

jose
aaron(bendover) has already told us of his superiority.
"oxbridge educated and top of his class in physics"!!!


jose (not verified)

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 15:26

Rate this:

2 points

Milligramsam:

As to tear gas, I'd like to think that despite the hyperbole of the ideologues of both sides - of whom you are one - the jury's still out.

Not for those with a brain. Poor aarondover has yet to apologise to Jonathan. No one ever died of inhaling tear gas in an open area. Even less plausible when the victim was rather far from the act according to all witnesses. By the way, the mother's testimony contradict that of Yonathan Pollack, who pretends she had taken an active part in the violent riot.
Let the liars first agree on their final version.


jose (not verified)

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 15:27

Rate this:

2 points

jose
aaron(bendover) has already told us of his superiority.
"oxbridge educated and top of his class in physics"!!!

You mean he is even superior to us?


Jez Waterman (not verified)

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 18:09

Rate this:

-2 points

Sorry to be a bit off message, its about an earlier thread really, but I thought that Mr Hoffman might be interested in this week's cock-up at Ben Gurion airport. A trolley left carelessly caused a collision. No lives lost, they were lucky again
We should be grateful to Mr Hoffman for alerting us to the dangers of travelling to Ben Gurion.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/ground-collision-causes-disruptions...


Joe Millis

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 18:26

Rate this:

0 points

Jez, that's just stupid. Stick to the facts, and let them speak for themselves.


jose (not verified)

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 18:37

Rate this:

0 points

A trolley left carelessly caused a collision. No lives lost, they were lucky again

Damn! I think an inquiry about plane safety at Ben Gurion is warranted!
I think that last time I arrived, I saw a Jain swallow a mosquito and that was a traumatic experience for the poor guy. Maybe they should also ban all mosquitoes from the area.


Yoni1

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 18:41

Rate this:

0 points

Jez is unusually stupid even for an antisemite. All airport have mishaps from time to time.


Jez Waterman (not verified)

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 22:37

Rate this:

-1 points

This anti-semitism thing as a catch-all term of abuse appears all the time on this blog. Are people too stupid, or perhaps too bigoted to see the harm they are doing in using that term against people just because they disagree with them? That expression should be our most devastating weapon. It should be in the same category as expressions like genocide, crimes against humanity. Perhaps even words like paedophile.
Instead it is used by bigots on sites like this as a cheap term of abuse, it is totally traduced and diminished until it becomes no more potent than calling the referee a wanker. In Israel the extremists settlers do the same when they, call the IDF anti-semites and Nazis.
One day, if you succeed in making the charge of anti- semitism no more potent than the use of the F word on Little Britain, you may reflect, and weep for what you do now.


jose (not verified)

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 22:52

Rate this:

1 point

This anti-semitism thing as a catch-all term

No it is "anti-Zionist" that is a catch-all, unfortunately just a loincloth, for antisemitism.

Are people too stupid, or perhaps too bigoted to see the harm they are doing in using that term against people just because they disagree with them?

You don't just disagree, you express your bigoted hate.

That expression should be our most devastating weapon.

After the Jewish people has been destroyed totally, you may be sure no one will hear it anymore. Maybe that's why you are so eager not to hear it?

Don't worry for the term "antisemite". Those who deserve it, like you, already don't care about it. Some of your friends are even proud of it.


jose (not verified)

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 22:59

Rate this:

1 point

So, to come back to the subject Waterdrop seems so eager to avoid, we have a blood libel accusation, as false as the Al Dura hoax. But this time, the hoax was discovered in a few hours and the blood-libellers, like aarondover (or is it Dobrzynski?) and Waterdrop failed miserably to apologise.

Milligramsam, after denigrating Jonathan and supporting the blood libel, suddenly understood that there was something wrong in this unbelievable story (although it took him very long).

The 'Palestinian' propaganda is exposed once again for what it is: crap for the gullible.


Yoni1

Sat, 01/08/2011 - 23:16

Rate this:

1 point

"Instead it is used by bigots on sites like this"

Hello! Earth to Jez! It's YOU who is the bigot, with your non-stop hatred towards Jews and Israel.


Jez Waterman (not verified)

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 01:17

Rate this:

-1 points

There are the hate merchants,(see above) but there are also the purveyors of hope

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/israel-prize-laureates-join-ac...

We shall overcome !


Jon_i_Cohen

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 01:26

Rate this:

2 points

No surprise, just more of the same old, same old leftist nonsense, the quasi-academic community tends to be from the lower earning quartiles who, typically, due tob their lower earning capabilitires tend to have a left wing view of the world, hence this anti-Ariel, left wing nonsense.


jose (not verified)

Sun, 01/09/2011 - 06:50

Rate this:

0 points

We shall overcome !

We already did, Waterdrop!

POST A COMMENT

You must be logged in to post a comment.

LATEST COMMENTS