So, this is Londonistan

My grandparents on my father's side were Palestinian who left for France in 1947 when they had to go.On the side of my mother they were Jewish Moroccan so I suppose I know much more about Israel/Palestine than you ever will!! So please stop being so so ignorant. Thank You

simoneq, sorry, was there a point in there somewhere?

Simoneq.
When your Palestinian grandparents had to go? In 1947? Who pushed them out? The British who were the rulers then? To France?
Doesn't make sense.
Maybe your Moroccan Jewish grandmother eloped with him to France to escape the wrath of her family? I don't know one Moroccan Jewish family who would accept this.
If I were you, I'd ask a few more questions to get a true story.
And in Morocco they don't tolerate the Islamist terror groups like we do in the UK. Any sniff of Al kaida and the suspects are thrown inside and the keys chucked away. My Moroccan family laugh at our UK government.

Trust me, Kahina, most people do, including most Brits. We have been betrayed by government after government.

I need to perhaps make it a bit clearer and
I try to explain that my grandparents left Palestine
where they had 3 homes in November 1947 because
the Jewish Hagana arrived and forced them with 6
days to leave. They were extremely lucky to be accepted
to live in France. My Grandfather was always so sad
because he could not return and life was very
difficult until he was established. You must understand
he had lost all and Israel gave him nothing back.
For this reason I become frustrated when I read
rubbish here by so called Palestinian defenders,
but the worst are the many Israel supporters who
need to have the understanding that we Palestinians,and I am
50% did exist before 1948 and had the lives ruined
by Israel. Grandfather was very old when he died
but his heart died much earlier.
I just ask you who read this to try to understand
how his feelings were. Thank You

simoneq

Assuming you are indeed who you say you are rather then some troll with a vivid imagination, you need to answer the two 64k dollar questions

What would have happened had the Arabs at that time accepted the UN Partition Plan .

What would have been the fate of your predecessors had the Arab League decided against invading the nascent state of Israel the day after it declared its independence.

As with most things in life ,we are each responsible for our actions and the reaction caused by it.

The Arabs had their choice at that time and suffered the consequences . There were many opportunities to rectify the problem thereafter . Each was spurned by the Palestinians / Arab states. In 1967 following Nassers disastrous attempt to destroy Israel, the Arab summit at Khartoum issued the infamous No Peace ,No negotiation , No recognition statement.

Returning to your comment, my grand parents came to this country from Russia in 1895 ,the victims of Russian pogroms and expulsion. To my knowledge they had not been part of an attempt to destroy Russia . They made new lives here and their descendants never looked back . Same with the 800,000 or so Jews who were expelled from their homes throughout the Arab states in the early 50s . Barely a mention of that in the UN .These people simply made new lives for themselves and got on with the process of living rather then playing the eternal martyr card .

The Palestinians remind me of the guy at the blackjack table asking the dealer for another card on 18 and then demanding his stake back when he strikes out.

"we Palestinians,and I am 50% did exist before 1948"

Well, no, they didn't. They were Arabs then, and they are Arabs now. There is no such thing as 'Palestinians'.
The Arabs before 1948 REFUSED to be called 'Palestinians'. Only the Jews were called Palestinians - but that was simply a name given them by the illegal foreign occupier, as indeed the name 'Palestine' was given by an illegal foreign occupier.
The myth of 'Palestinians' was invented in the 1960s.

"and had the lives ruined by Israel"

Cry me a river. It was the Arabs who wanted to murder all the Jews, not vice versa.
Do you have any idea how many billions were stolen from the hundreds of thousanda of Jews kicked out of Arab countries (unless they were murdered), to say nothing of centuries of apartheid under vicious Moslem rule?

Your grandfather was failed by the Arab leaders, not the Jews.

The Arab leaders continue to act against the better interests of their people. We all pray that inspiring new leaders arise amongst them.

About simoneq legends of his grandfather, here is what the Arabs in the know said during all these years. Pay attention to the name of the last one mentioned:

“The fact that there are these refugees is the direct consequence of the act of the Arab states in opposing partition and the Jewish state. The Arab states agreed upon this policy unanimously and they must share in the solution of the problem.”
–- Emile Ghoury, secretary of the Palestinian Arab Higher Committee, in an interview with the Beirut Telegraph September 6, 1948. (same appeared in The London Telegraph, August 1948);

“It must not be forgotten that the Arab Higher Committee encouraged the refugees’ flight from their homes in Jaffa, Haifa, and Jerusalem”.
-- Near East Arabic Broadcasting Station, Cyprus, April 3, 1949.

“The Arab states which had encouraged the Palestine Arabs to leave their homes temporarily in order to be out of the way of the Arab invasion armies, have failed to keep their promise to help these refugees.”
-– The Jordanian daily newspaper Falastin, February 19, 1949.

“The Secretary General of the Arab League, Azzam Pasha, assured the Arab peoples that the occupation of Palestine and of Tel Aviv would be as simple as a military promenade...Brotherly advice was given to the Arabs of Palestine to leave their land, homes, and property to stay temporarily In neighboring fraternal states, lest the guns of invading Arab armies mow them down.”
--Al Hoda, a New York-based Lebanese daily, June 8, 1951.

“Who brought the Palestinians to Lebanon as refugees, suffering now from the malign attitude of newspapers and communal leaders, who have neither honour nor conscience? Who brought them over in dire straits and penniless, after they lost their honor? The Arab states, and Lebanon amongst them, did it.”
-- The Beirut Muslim weekly Kul-Shay, August 19, 1951

“The Arab governments told us: Get out so that we can get in. So we got out, but they did not get in.”
A refugee quoted in Al Difaa (Jordan) September 6, 1954.

“The wholesale exodus was due partly to the belief of the Arabs, encouraged by the boasting of an unrealistic press and the irresponsible utterances of some of the Arab leaders that it could be only a matter of some weeks before the Jews were defeated by the armies of the Arab states, and the Palestinian Arabs enabled to re-enter and re-take possession of their country”.
-- Edward Atiyah (Secretary of the Arab League, London, The Arabs, 1955, p. 183)

“The 15th May, 1948, arrived ... On that day the mufti of Jerusalem appealed to the Arabs of Palestine to leave the country, because the Arab armies were about to enter and fight in their stead.”
-- The Cairo daily Akhbar el Yom, October 12, 1963.

In listing the reasons for the Arab failure in 1948, Khaled al-Azm (Syrian Prime Minister) notes that “…the fifth factor was the call by the Arab governments to the inhabitants of Palestine to evacuate it (Palestine) and leave for the bordering Arab countries. Since 1948, it is we who have demanded the return of the refugees, while it is we who made them leave. We brought disaster upon a million Arab refugees by inviting them and bringing pressure on them to leave. We have accustomed them to begging...we have participated in lowering their morale and social level...Then we exploited them in executing crimes of murder, arson and throwing stones upon men, women and children...all this in the service of political purposes...”
-- Khaled el-Azm, Syrian prime minister after the 1948 War, in his 1972 memoirs, published in 1973.

“The Arab states succeeded in scattering the Palestinian people and in destroying their unity. They did not recognize them as a unified people until the states of the world did so, and this is regrettable. The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny, but instead they abandoned them, forced them to emigrate and to leave their homeland, imposed upon them a political and ideological blockade and threw them into prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Jews used to live in Eastern Europe.”
-- Abu Mazen (Mahmoud Abbas), from the official journal of the PLO, Falastin el-Thawra (“What We Have Learned and What We Should Do”), Beirut, March 1976.

Do you have any idea how many billions were stolen from the hundreds of thousanda of Jews kicked out of Arab countries (unless they were murdered), to say nothing of centuries of apartheid under vicious Moslem rule?

Can't be a justification of Arab's expulsion of 20% of Mandate Palestine, since it happened afterwards.
But all proofs show that it is the Arabs themselves that decided to go, not the Jews who threatened them, most of the time following the will of the Arab countries that wanted to slaughter the Jews.
The Jews won their war for survival and all of the following ones, to get defensible frontiers. Why should they now present their throat to the butchers?

Jose, you are failing to understand my argument, which is not like you.
I wasn't seeking to 'justify' anything. The Yishuv Jews had very good reasons to protect themselves against a murderous, genocidal 5th column, during a most vulnerable and dangerous period. That is good enough for me.
The point is that the Arabs can go whistle for 'compensation' until they admit that they stole far more from the Jews of Iraq.
Plus, the Jews had already been expelled from 75% of the Mandate area 25 years previously.

And the Arabs weren't expelled from anything remotely like '20%', since a very large number of Arabs remained in Israel. I'll try to find you a link to a map.

simoneq
28 December, 2010 - 22:52
"My grandparents on my father's side were Palestinian who left for France in 1947 when they had to go.On the side of my mother they were Jewish Moroccan so I suppose I know much more about Israel/Palestine than you ever will!! So please stop being so so ignorant. Thank You"

How does this comment relate to the title of the blog? This blog is about the UK becoming an international hub for Hamas sponsored Islamic fundamentalist terrorism.

And I live in Israel, so I know much more about the Israel/Arab conflict than simoneq ever will. The problem is that I am not the only one. A number of Arabs also do.

Yoni, two wrongs do not make one right. Of course, now, the Arab countries should compensate the 'Palestinians' for their claims, as they stole the belongings of the Jewish community.

But those 'Palestinian' claims are false, as they left the country in order for Jews to be slaughtered. They behaved as enemies and had their properties seized. Those who stayed had not trouble.

"Yoni, two wrongs do not make one right"

That cliche does not impress me. It's totally irrelevant. There is only one wrong here. And even if there were two, it's money, it's a ledger issue, it has 2 columns anbd you can transfer funds between them.

But in any case, you still fail to comprehend what I am saying. I specifically mentioned a fifth column that had made its intention to help enthusiastically in the upcoming genocide of the Jews perfectly clear, perfectly public and unambiguous. Which part of that can't you understand?

And you ducked my point about the risibility of the 20% figure.

That cliche does not impress me.

That 'cliche' is just the name of a sophism that I don't practice.
I don't have to justify two wrongs, because Iknow who made the 'Palestinians' flee their homes in 1948, contrary to simoneq who believed the legends of his grandfather.
Those who wanted to stay in peace had no problem with Jews.
So the expulsion of Jews was a 'revenge' on an imaginary wrong. One cannot be used to justify the other, except if one believes the Arabic countries' stories.

Therefore, never mention expulsion of Jews in Arabic countries regarding the flight of 'Palestinians' from their homes. This has nothing to do with that.

I don't have to justify two wrongs, because Iknow who made the 'Palestinians' flee their homes in 1948, contrary to simoneq who believed the legends of his grandfather.

Jewish soldiers made my Grandfather leave the houses he had in late 1947 and no others! They were the guilty people. Why do you people refuse to believe this?

"Therefore, never mention expulsion of Jews in Arabic countries regarding the flight of 'Palestinians' from their homes."

Well, I mention or don't mention things as the mood takes me, not on the arrogant instructions of another poster.

I will continue to mention the expulsion of Jews from Arab countries, because as I keep telling you (and you either duck this point because you don't understand it, or because you know that you can't answer it), this is a financial matter quite separate from the reasons for the 1948 expulsions. Surely you can entertain, simultaneously or consecutively, 2 different aspects of the same issue? One of them even has 2 sub-aspects - s. below.

1. The 1948 expulsions were justified.

2. Now we come to the claim for compensation: is it tenable? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but it's (a) a financial matter, (b) the Arabs countries don't turn up in court with clean hands. The latter is a well-established principle, so kindly don't tell me not to mention it. That's both rude, and legally nonsensical. A party that claims to have been robbed, then commits an even bigger robbery against the alleged first robber, then turns up in court demanding compensation. That is usually known as chutzpah.

Simoneq:
Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. It happened. What do you want us to do about it?

Well, I mention or don't mention things as the mood takes me, not on the arrogant instructions of another poster.

If you wish to weaken your arguments, do as you wish. But it is quite stupid.

Jewish soldiers made my Grandfather leave the houses he had in late 1947 and no others! They were the guilty people. Why do you people refuse to believe this?

Because all Arabs in the know admit they made the 'Palestinians' flee. Your grandfather told you fairy tales and you believed them.
Late 1947, there was no Israel and the British still ruled the territories. You are just telling lies.

Simone
Did you ask your grandmother's family why this couple fled British palestine for France?

I know these Moroccan Jewish families, they would not have accepted a Muslim son-in-law. No way. I bet your grandmother's life was made hell and they decided to flee to France instead.

Simone.... ask more questions. You probably don't even know your grandmoher's family, as they probably cut her off completely, as was the norm in this era.

You are right Kahina. You forgot to tell simoneq one thing: the Arab family would accept a Jewish bride only if she converted.

Exactly Jose.

The Haganah making them flee, sounds more like the mighty force of both sets of parents disowning them.