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Telegramsam,

It is very interesting to note what Raaya actually said (of course, you don't reflect on his words, because they don't suit your repetitive pop song) :

Lieutenant Abu Raaya rubbished claims that the reason Arab teenagers opt not to join the Israeli army is down to discrimination.

He said: “The army encourages Arabs to join,” and called for more young Israeli Arabs to join.

More rubbish from the poster "telegramsam". See this from haaretz not the most peo-Israel newspaper around!

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/number-of-israeli-arab-idf-rec...

Next time who or whatever you are check your facts before you rush into print.

As for treating Arabs equally Arabs in Israel generally as with the Jewish population have the highest level of freedom than any of their bretheren in any other state in the Middle East - I call on you to prove me wrong.Why don't you and anyone else reading this post visit
http://www.theisraelproject.org/site/c.hsJPK0PIJpH/b.5118555/k.5CB5/Isra...
and perhaps you will learn somerhing. I already know that you will post something denigrating the site but your rantings because it happens to be an israeli site (something Galloway also has difficulty with when it disproves his outrageous statements) do not deflect from the truth however unpalatable it may be to you.

This is why there will never be peace in the Middle East - watch it until the end. Israeli kids are taught about the "other" Arab kids are taught there is no other!

Sorry here is the link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBXCYEXxKXA

Advis3r, let me get this straight. There is no discrimination against Arabs in Israel? And don't compare it with Arab countries, because Israel is a democracy unlike its Arab neighbours.
I suggest that you read the excellent piece in today's print edition of the JC by Douglas Krikler and Trevor Pears of uktaskforce.org

The UK Task Force on issues facing Arab citizens of Israel is a diverse, broad-based coalition of organisations committed to the welfare of Israel and its secure and peaceful existence. Members of the Task Force support Israel’s Declaration of Independence, including the article promising social and political equality for all its inhabitants — Jews and Arabs alike. We are committed to building a shared society between Israel’s Jewish and Arab citizens.

Israeli Supreme Court Judge Theodore Or, author of the eponymous 2003 Report and 2004 follow-up report, concluded that the future of Israel’s Arab citizens is a defining strategic issue facing Israel, affecting its prosperity and security. Since the Or Report, which was commissioned in the wake of the violent events in 2000, Jewish-Arab relations in Israel have continued to be strained.

And before you have a go, you really cannot get more Zionist and pro-Israel than Krikler. He's the Chief Excutive of UJIA.
In a democracy, all citizens, irrespective of race, creed, gender etc have an equal stake in that country. Can you say that this is true of Israel, that it is a state for all its citizens?
Can you honestly say that resources are distribuited equally between Jewish and non-Jewish Israelis? if that's the case, why is there no Israeli Arab head of a government department? Or why are israeli Arab towns in the Galil under-resourced compared to their Jewish counterparts? Why are Israeli Arabs denied the right to live in certain Jewish communities, a move which is to become enshrined in law.
Why is the rabbi of Safed or former Chief rabbi Ovadiah Yosef allowed to get away with saying Jews musn't sell/rent their properties to non-Jews? Would you be so sangunie about this if an American Catholic priest or French Imam had said that their flock mustn't sell/rent property to Jews?

here here Tgsam. Its about time the narrow minded right wing imbeciles on this site were given a run for there money.

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By telegramsam
November 5, 2010 Share

It is good to see that an Israeli Arab has integrated into society to the extent that he is now an officer in the Army.
Perhaps if Israel treated its 1.5 million non-Jewish citizens equally, he wouldn't be a single example. ??
*************

Doh.....It is because of the fact that non-Jewish or Arab citizens of Israel ARE allowed freedom AND equal opportunities that there is an Arab Officer in the IDF.

In which of the 22 Arab Countries is there a Jewish Officer in the Army?

I did not say there was no discrimination against Arabs. You imply there is institutionalised discrimination against Arabs. I was therefore answering your outrageous lie that Israel should treat its 1.5 million non-Jewish citizens the way it treats its Jewish citizens. You may be interested to learn that the Deputy Mayor of Karmiel has been removed from his job because of alleged discrimination against Arabs - something that would presumably occur in the UK if a similar official discriminated against an ethnic minority so not much difference there.
Unfortnuately your side kick TheBrit believs that anyone supporting Israel must be rightwing as if being rightwing means you are unable to hold a valid view on any subject. I see nothing in your quot to say that Israel is institutoinally discriminatorye against Arabs rather that Israel takes the position seriously and in fact apponted a Judicial Committee to ensure fairness for all its citizens - the mark of a true democracy. So once again you use a good story to try and show Israel in a bad light and once again the facts do not support your libellous claims. Furthermore you talk about Arabs not being allowed to live in Jewish Communities please provide evidence that they "are not allowed" i.e. point me to the Israeli Law that says this. The law you refer to says no such thing.

Advis3r, is there no institutionalised discrimination against Arabs in Israel? How then to explain that Jewish towns and villages get far more resources than Arab towns and villages of equal size? And in education, are Arab and Jewish schools equally funded? Do we want to talk about infrastructure, too?
I respectfully suggest you look at the plight and history of the Kaadan family and its attempts to live in Iron. Or the vaadot kabalah (acceptance committees) that are now allowed to vet Arabs.
Good for the mayor of Karmiel, he is a beacon. Kind of puts the rabbis of Safed to shame.

So, TheBrit, far from the new, independant, voice of the mainstream that he claimed to be in his first blog, he has now shown his true colours and has turned out to be telegramSHAMs side kick, and just another left wing nutter.

This is what he has to say:-
TheBrit::here here Tgsam. Its about time the narrow minded right wing imbeciles on this site were given a run for there money.

tsam, as most Arabs don't serve in the army, your figure of 1.5 million potential officers is the usual codswallop. Furthermore, you seem to endlessly attack Israel as not being egalitarian. Well, you knw that it is te most egalitarian country in the Middle East, and that the UK, for example, is hardly without social injustice and inequality.

You play right into the hands of every Israel demoniser and antisemitic hater. What's wrong with you? You seem to think Jews have the luxury of being so endlessly self deprecating.

Yes the Brit, we need more far left Israel bashing navel gazers whose criticisms only run in one direction.

Yeah, that's what we need.

Jon,

It didn't take long for Mr Goody Two-Shoes (aka Britty Boy) to reveal his true colours.

And what's worse? The repetitive pop song ("telegramsam") or the wannabe side-kick?

Amber, self deprecation is what has kept Jews alive through the eons while cultures that have taken themselves too seriously have vanished (Rome, Greece, etc). We gave the world monotheism and the Torah, but we also gave the world the Marx Brothers and Mel Brooks.

It might be nice if JIC and Anthony didn't resort to abuse as their first line of response.

telegramsam,

Please dont use the " We gave The World" line. There are plenty of fine non-Jewish comedians. (Monty Python etc). You are beginning to sound racist. But of course, that is usually the case when one digs under the skin of self- avowed anti-racists.
Ironic, eh?

TheBrit
His anthem:-

Oooh, oh man, oooh
Telegram Sam, Telegram Sam, you are my main man
Golden Nose Slim, Golden Nose Slim
I know's where you been oh ...........etc etc

(Or something like that)

Anthony, disingenuity will get you nowhere. Did I say that there were no non-Jewish comics? You really are emulating Avraham (where is he, by the way, his musings have disappeared?) in the sense of making a fool out of yourself every time you post. In the words of one of the great non-Jewish comics: Stupid boy.

JIC, whodathunkit? Quoting from Rabbi Mark Feld like that.

telegramsam,

You certainly didn't mention the non-Jewish comedians. Or perhaps, I misread your comment?

And why are you obsessed by a dead Jewish pop star? (Marc Bolan). Don't you think that non-Jewish singers have also contributed?

Anthony, to paraphrase Graham Chapman (not Jewish) in Monty Python: You are very silly indeed.

The Vaad Kabaalot will be allowed to decide on the basis of social mix whether or not to accept residents - this includes Dati/Non-dati as well as social/cultural background it does not say Arabs will not be allowed as you suggest. This move has been forced on Israel for very good reason. You appear to be unaware that the Saudi government is funding Arabs in Israel to buy up Jewish property and to commence court proceedings when Communities who wish to retain their Jewish character are faced with spurious claims by Arabs who have plenty of other opportunities to live within communities with their own social/cultural background but are encouraged to try and show israel in a bad light. After all there not many Jews living in Umm El-Fahm and nobody claims the Arabs are being discriminatory in not allowing jews to live there. This also explains the problems in Safed. The Saudi funds are unlimited and the Arabs are paying over the asking price in some cases to secure the property. Obviously the idea is then to discourage other Jews from buying in the locale and by stealth set up Arab enclaves and take over Jewish communities. You appear to see this from a British perspective. However just remember Israel is the sole Jewish State and as such it is entitled to maintain its Jewish identity against this latest attempt by the Arabs to destroy that identity by using Israel's free and open society against itself. If you want to talk about discrimination just see what you have to do to become Swiss besides federal requirements which are more draconian that becoming an israeli citizen The canton and municipality of residence can add further conditions and set the cost of acquiring citizenship before approving it. Conditions vary greatly from one region to the next. Some municipalities apply rather open policies, while others will go as far as granting nationality by means of a local population vote - somewhat more stringent than what Israel is proposing in its new law and nobody calls the Swiss discriminatory. Furthermore Israel is and has been actively addressing the lack of facilities in Arabs towns and villages as you would undoubtedly discover if you went on the site I suggested above. Your comments are outdated and are simply cheap shots as I said attempting to turn a good story into a bad one - in that you fail miserably.

tsam,
Why Marc Bolan?

coz he woz a Jew

Advis3r, I won't talk about the Swiss because that's whataboutery. The Vaadot kabalah are nod-and-a-wink politics, a way of getting around the situation that the Kaadan family created for the people of Iron. You know that, I know that. It has even been described by its proponents in Shas, Yisrael Beiteinu and the Likud as a measure to circumvent the Supreme Court.
As for Jews wanting to live in Umm al-Fahm, Shakhnein, Shafr-Amr or elsewhere, you know as well as I that as these places are underfunded compared to their Jewish counterparts, no Jew would want to live there. However, when an aspirational Arab family wants to better itself in a middle-class Israeli Jewish village, it is put through hoops and is denied entry.
As for claims about Saudi money, this sadly echoes claims from another time that "Jewish" money was bringing in all sorts of undesirables. There goes the neighbourhood.

Again unable to counter an argument you talk about whataboutery. You are trying to hold Israel to standards to which no other democracy is held to so when I show that compared to another democracy Israel is not discriminatory yo accuse me of "whataboutery" in order to get yourself off the hook. A I have said israel recognises that there has been under-funding of Arab towns and villages and is and has been doing much to redress this. I have directed you to the site above but you just trot out the same tired accusations. The family did not want to better itself by moving to an israeli community where it had no cultural/religious/social ties for which reason their application was refused - it was an attempt to embarrass the Jewish State plain and simple. As for your attempted comparison of communities trying to maintain the Jewishness of the only Jewish State against the racism of the Saudis (who do not allow Jews to visit the country let alone live there) with the anti-semitism still practiced in the UK provides further evidence of the vapidness of your arguments against the Jewish State.

No, Advis3r, I am holding Israel to standards to which all democracies are held. In democracies all citizens, irrespective of race, creed, colour etc have a stake in tnat country. Those states are for all the citizens. Is Israel?
And it was whataboutery, I'm talking about Israel, not the country which filched millions of tonnes of gold and billions of dollars from Jewish victims of the Holocaust.
The Kaadans did want to better themselves. saying otherwise is a neat excuse.
look, say a community in Britain had a vaadat kabalah and that vaadat kabalah had vetoed a Cohen family for no grounds other than they are Jewish. Would you be sanguine about it? I certainly wouldn't?

OK tsam - just keep attacking other Jews. Maybe you can keep attacking them when they come for them again.

Amber, are Jews above criticism, especially by other Jews? This philosemitism is very dangerous.

tsam, all you do is criticize - it's a fetish for you. That's not healthy - and it's a double standard.

tsam, all you do is criticize - it's a fetish for you. That's not healthy - and it's a double standard.

"Telegramsam" equates Israel with Iran and North Korea. Now when one recognizes this fact, one might conclude that it is pointless discussing Israel with it. The repetitive 60's pop song has made up its mind.... Israel=Iran.

The best approach is to point out its irrationality and move on.

tsam, all you do is criticize - it's a fetish for you. That's not healthy - and it's a double standard.

tsam, all you do is criticize - it's a fetish for you. That's not healthy - and it's a double standard.

Fetish? Hmmm…

Real funny tsam.

Your constant attacks on other Jews is a real problem.