Self-determination? But why?

" What if a majority of Jews do not actually want a seperate statehood . How does one decide if a majority does or doesn't"

Why don't you suggest this to the Israelis . Perhaps they could hold a referendum.

Are you in favour of the dismantlement of an independent state of Israel as it currently exists and thereby to replace it with a single state incorporating the Palestinians .

Noes to the left ,Ayes into the sea. See what reaction you get.

There is of course no need to hold a referendum for British Jews . The question in itself is absurd and demeaning .

The only people within the community for whom Israels existence is a problem is a small number of self hating Liberals and academics whose whole raison is to assimilate , merge and ingratiate themselves within their host community .Invariably their " Judaism " only emerges when they use it to proclaim their absurdities in the form of whole page adverts in the media. After that it can be allowerd to go back into hibernation.

In this I m much reminded of the Weimar Jews who thought themselves so well assimilated to the point their Judaism was virtually irrelevant. It did not help them.

I believe your views are an anathema to the vast majority of British Jews . Your irrational need to ingratiate yourselves to those who seek to delegitimize and demonise Israel does you no favours . You are willing dupes like the fools of the NK who would portray themselves as "the good Jews" to their Jew hating sponsors.

We are not unmindful of Israels' failings and problems but unlike you we in the Diaspora seek to help mentor and improve.

You on the other hand point to its as a reason to dismantle . Shame on you and those like you.

Actually, no, Harvey. I raised certain questions, to which you have your answers. That's fine. But you don't speak for British Jews. Neither of us does. And if we were honest with ourselves for just one lucid moment, we'd recognise that it's not Hamas, the PLO, the "self-hating librul" Jews or any other of the far right's Emmanuel Goldstein hate-figures who will lead to Israel's destruction, but Israel's own policies.

"What if a majority of Jews do not actually want a seperate statehood . How does one decide if a majority does or doesn't"
Why don't you suggest this to the Israelis . Perhaps they could hold a referendum.

No Harvey, it's very simple. Moshe was talking about a majority of Jews. You're now suddenly talking about a referendum of Israelis.

Most Jews live outside of Israel, and despite 62 years of statehood, most have decided not to live in Israel.

Thank you, Ben. At least someone gets it.

Ben Abuyah

Since when do non domicile Diaspara Jews have a say in the status of a seperate independent state .

Most have decided not to live in Israel"

Really ? I would be most interested to have a link to your sources -varifiable of course.

Suggest you go back to the drawing board as wishful thinking counts for diddly squat

" The majority of Jews most of whom live in democracies have chosen not to live in Israel."

Yes and it's called freedom of choice . The same freedom of choice, by way of example' that Catholics have to live outside Rome / Vatican.or Muslims to live outside Saudi Arabia /Mecca or any of the other 56 Muslim states.

Of course 7 million or so Jews and non Jews do choose to live in Israel for that very reason. That it is a fully fledged democracy with first world standards of education, medicine ,an exemplary judicial system and of course a thriving economy generating a 5% GDP year on year .

A diverse multicultural society would of course not be feasible if the above conditions did not prevail as people ,especially those whom you champion , would simply move elsewhere. I'm delighted to say that this is not the case in Israel.

The reality is that if you wish to see creeping apartheid you need look no further then the UK where ghettos have sprung up in major cities caused by whites moving out of Asian or black areas . White flight as it is termed ,leaves many inner city schools devoid of white children. Not the subject of choice among the Liberals but then again it doesn't happen in the genteel suburbs of Hampstead and Islington. Hypocrisy and double standars springs readily to mind.

As for French Jews and empty appartments I think you will find they are keeping their options well and truly open for that inevitable day of reckoning .

Harvey, when that self-same separate independent state lays claim to being the Jewish state.
And the majority of Jews, most of whom live in democracies, have chosen not to live in Israel. Are the "vast majority" living in Israel? Is even a majority living in Israel? And most of those living in Israel, are they there through choice or because they had to go there? Let's face it, given the choice, like South African Jews were when apartheid collapsed, the majority chose Australia, the US and South Hampstead, not Israel. And when the Argentine economy collapsed, was there a mass emigration of Jews to Israel? No, about 3000 out of 300,000 upped and left. France? There are so many empty French-owned apartments in Netanya and Ashdod that there is a glut on the market.