Remembering Yad Vashem and Deir Yassin


By ibrows
September 23, 2010
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Despite the fact that the Israeli historian Benny Morris confirms in his book: 1984 and after, that: ‘Jewish military operations indeed accounted for 70% of the Arab exodus’ (page 101) in 1948. The Israeli state refuses to acknowledge this. Likewise, Morris states in the Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem revisited, that the massacre at Deir Yassin, had the most lasting effect of any single event of the war in precipitating the Palestinian exodus' (page 237). Now i appreciate this may be difficult to accept for those who adhere to 'Israel is beyond criticism tribe', but this evidence is derived by Morris from Israeli archives.

Over 100 Palestinians died at Deir Yassin. But what makes this massacre at Deir Yassin even more shocking is that more than sixty years on, there is still a total denial by Israel that it took place, a total silencing of the memories of the more than a hundred Palestinians who lost their lives. The process of eliminating and burying this history was subsequently extended when Jews resettled this land. The centre of Deir Yassin was renamed Kfar Shaul, and Deir Yassin like many other Palestinian villages was literally wiped off the map. As Jerusalem expanded, the lands of Deir Yassin became a part of the city and it is now known simply as the area between Givat Shaul and the settlement of Har Nof.

The Deir Yassin remembered organization seeks to construct a memorial at Deir Yassin, in West Jerusalem to resurrect the memories of the massacre. The holocaust memorial at Yad Vashem names all the Jews that died at the hands of the Nazis creating a living memory of those whose graves are unknown. From Vad Vashem you can gaze 1,500 yards to the north and see the site of Deir Yassin, the site of the unacknowledged and silenced massacre. Much of the actual village of Deir Yassin (although renamed) remains intact, in the form of a mental hospital in the Givat Shaul district of West Jerusalem. Palestinian buildings can be distinguished through their distinct style and colour. They are surrounded by the Orthodox Jewish settlement of Har Nof and the industrial area of Givat Shaul. There are no markers, no plaques, and no memorials at Deir Yassin.

According to Marc H. Ellis, Israel’s refusal to allow a Deir Yassin memorial reflects Netanyahu’s approach to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict:

‘Could the refusal to remember the destruction of Palestine, illustrated historically in the massacre of Deir Yassin and embodied by millions of stateless Palestinians today, mandate in the future a further cleansing of memory through expansion and even transfer of parts of the Palestinian population? Refusing a historical memorial is simply one step towards refusing to countence the contemporary markers of the historical ongoing event of denial and displacement. Could the refusal to commemorate Deir Yassin signal a refusal to end the cycle of ongoing expansion and displacement?’.

COMMENTS

ibrows

Thu, 09/23/2010 - 16:48

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-2 points

Now before you reject this i suggest you in particular Jonny dig out Benny Morris' books and check the pages i have cited as evidence, the statements are based on Israeli archives.


Jon_i_Cohen

Thu, 09/23/2010 - 17:07

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1 point

What is the point of putting this on the "Jewish Chronicle" web site?
Surely you should be posting this on the Guardian, - I've got it!
You cannot get any of your material published any where else can you?
So knowing that the JC like to publish left-wing propoganda you thought you'd try your luck here, aren't you the clever one!


mattpryor

Thu, 09/23/2010 - 17:13

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2 points

I think it's more insidious than that Jon. I think he thinks that British Jews are responsible and need to be repeatedly reminded of Israel's painful and tragic history.

That's why he posts this crap in the Jewish Chronicle. He blames British Jews for what happened in Israel 60 years ago.

He's a sick puppy.


mattpryor

Thu, 09/23/2010 - 17:16

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1 point

Incidentally if anyone is interested in this period of history Efraim Karsh has a great new book out about it which blows Morris out of the water and exposes him as the publicity seeking fraud he is.

Palestine Betrayed


ibrows

Thu, 09/23/2010 - 17:23

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-3 points

Efraim Karsh, i thought you might like him, hes the master of decontextualising one document, and ignoring thousands of others that confirm the opposite position.

Like i said, Morris' statements that:

‘Jewish military operations indeed accounted for 70% of the Arab exodus’.

and that the massacre at Deir Yassin, 'had the most lasting effect of any single event of the war in precipitating the Palestinian exodus'.

Are derived from official IDF and haganah reports and archives, Karsh is a joke, he's about as interested in credible evidence as Jonathan, he's already made his fabricated conclusion and ignores evidence like those i have cited, which contradict this claims that 'the state of Israel was never ever responsible for any crime'. Karsh is not a serious historian, he's incredibly selective with what he emphasises and what he totally ignored, Morris when writing 1948 and after, and the Birth of the Palestinian refugee problem, simply expressed the evidence of Israeli archives


ibrows

Thu, 09/23/2010 - 17:32

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-3 points

karsh has been heavily criticised for his fabrication of history, some of it is discussed briefly here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efraim_Karsh

bet consider Joan Peters 'from time immemorial' and alan Dershowitz 'real historians' too? Even though Finkelstein and others have proved beyond all doubt they have totally fabricated history and ignored evidence that undermines their politically motivated thesis. Dershowitz claims Israel has never committed a human rights abuse, come on, go to the West Bank, or East Jerusalem, they are happening on a daily basis.


ibrows

Thu, 09/23/2010 - 17:36

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-2 points

anyhow, Jonny wont be happy we are going off topic!

My piece is merely meant to raise the question of why Israel will not acknowledge the widely documented massacre of Deir Yassin, as its important to remember the Palestinians lives that have been lost, just as its important to remember the Jews and every other group that has suffered persecution.


mattpryor

Thu, 09/23/2010 - 18:01

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2 points

Since the OP likes selectively quoting Morris, I wonder how he feels about these statements:

My turning point began after 2000. I wasn't a great optimist even before that. True, I always voted Labor or Meretz or Sheli and in 1988 I refused to serve in the territories and was jailed for it, but I always doubted the intentions of the Palestinians. The events of Camp David and what followed in their wake turned the doubt into certainty. When the Palestinians rejected the proposal of [prime minister Ehud] Barak in July 2000 and the Clinton proposal in December 2000, I understood that they are unwilling to accept the two-state solution. They want it all. Lod and Acre and Jaffa.

and...

The Israeli Arabs are a time bomb. Their slide into complete Palestinization has made them an emissary of the enemy that is among us. They are a potential fifth column. In both demographic and security terms they are liable to undermine the state. So that if Israel again finds itself in a situation of existential threat, as in 1948, it may be forced to act as it did then. If we are attacked by Egypt (after an Islamist revolution in Cairo) and by Syria, and chemical and biological missiles slam into our cities, and at the same time Israeli Palestinians attack us from behind, I can see an expulsion situation. It could happen. If the threat to Israel is existential, expulsion will be justified..

See, two can play at the "let's grab stuff from Wikipedia and pretend we know something" game.

So ibrows, do you agree with these statements or not?

A lot of his other quotes on his Wiki page are interesting too. Perhaps the OP would like to comment on some of those.


jose (not verified)

Thu, 09/23/2010 - 18:17

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2 points

I will add to Benny Morris: 100% of Arab exodus is due to the presence of Jews in 'Palestine'. If the Jews didn't go there or did not defend themselves while they were gently slaughtered, the Arabs settlers in 'Palestine' would not have moved.
Really, what was Benny Morris thinking when he 'confirmed' his 70% figure?


amber

Thu, 09/23/2010 - 18:18

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4 points

The title of this blog is undulterated antisemitic, according to the EU's definition of the term. It invidiously connects the Holocaust with deir Yassin, and Jews with Nazis.

ibrows, you are a Jew hating scumbag.


ibrows

Thu, 09/23/2010 - 18:36

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-3 points

Its not antisemitic to say Palestinians that have died should be remembered within Israel.

Matt

Morris also in 2004 called for further ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, saying Ben-Gurion should have gone further in 1948. And no i don't agree with this, or his move to the extreme-right in recent years, which appears to contradict much of the evidence he supplied through Israeli archives in 'Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem'.


ibrows

Thu, 09/23/2010 - 18:40

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-2 points

Matt

I don't accept all Morris' views, i am merely showing through his work that relies on Israel archives that the massacre at Deir Yassin occurred and the impact it had on the flight of the Palestinians. This doesn't mean i accept every statement Morris ever made, plus his views have changed a lot in recent years like i said.

I am not using wiki, i have actually read both these book, and indeed supplied some of the quotes to wiki


ibrows

Thu, 09/23/2010 - 19:43

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-2 points

Jews should certainly be remembered that have died, indeed anyone who has died anywhere, their memory should be respected enough to allow people to have a memorial, this is precisely my point


jose (not verified)

Thu, 09/23/2010 - 21:05

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4 points

Where are the memorial to the crusaders? Remember: Arabs are settlers in Israel. Where are the memorial to the settlers in North Africa?
Your theories are just a way to say the settlers you like should have a memorial, while those you don't like shouldn't.
Double standards = racism. Assimilating Deir Yassin to Holocaust is also racism, and a of a stupid kind.


amber

Thu, 09/23/2010 - 22:43

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3 points

So ibrows, why aren't you vociferously calling for the end of Holocaust denial from the Palestinian leadership - both from Fatah and Hamas? Why is it that you always only choose Israel to vilify?

That's hypocrisy, and you're full of it.


Advis3r

Thu, 09/23/2010 - 23:45

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2 points

"orthodox Settlement of Har Nof" - that will be news to the "settlers" who live there. It is as much a settlement as Edgware is a settlement to the North West of London - plonker!
As to Dir Yassin all the lies in the world will not make an attack on a well armed fortified position containing Iraqi irregular troops who received sufficient warning of an impending attack and who used civilians as "human shields" a "massacre" not so the Arabs ambush and massacre of the hospital staff convoy of Hadassah Hospital on Mount Scopus and the massacre of the Jewish Community of Hebron to name but two. Facts coveniently forgotten by the Jew-baiters who infest this site.


mattpryor

Fri, 09/24/2010 - 09:31

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2 points

ibrows,

You call Lieberman a "Nazi" for daring to raise the possibility of transferring governmental authority to the PA in some Arab settlements in Israel.

Yet Benny Morris, who agrees with the expulsion of Arabs during the War of Independence and says Ben Gurion didn't go far enough AND advocates doing it again in the event of another war, is a source of wisdom for you and you quote him whenever it suits you.

You are a hypocrite and a fraud.


ibrows

Fri, 09/24/2010 - 13:49

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-1 points

Matt

listen carefully, Morris' views shifted over time, this fact is widely accepted. Morris like i said, found Israeli archives and internal intelligence reports that found that 70% of the Palestinian exodus was caused by Israel forces. Furthermore, Morris documents that Deir Yassin was the most significant event in causing the Palestinian exodus after the massacre of more than a hundred Palestinians. This was written by Morris in 1988-1994. MORE RECENTLY MORRIS HAS CHANGED HIS VIEWS...such as the 2004 interview that stated that Ben-Gurion did not go far enough in Morris' OPINION in expelling the Palestinians.

There is no fraud is these statements, the earlier work like i repeatedly stressed is based on Israel archives, and therefore beyond all doubt, Morris' later view was his opinion, which i totally disagree with.

secondly, i did say Lieberman is racist for proposing the expulsion of the Palestinians from Israel, SIMPLY FOR BEING PALESTINIAN, this is ethnic cleansing, just like Hutu expelling the Tutsi, simply for being Tutsi.


mattpryor

Fri, 09/24/2010 - 15:07

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0 points

Yeah, keep digging.

Fraud, hypocrite, Anti-Semite.


amber

Fri, 09/24/2010 - 16:20

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2 points

Ibrows, is Abbas a rcist for his Holocaust denial? How about the leaders of Iran and Syria? How about Hizbollah and Hamas - who advocate the extermination of every Jew on earth? Aren't they racist?

Of course, it's those Jews you've got to watch. You NEVER criticize any of the above - just Israel - and Israel alone.

Jew hater.


zair (not verified)

Fri, 09/24/2010 - 16:43

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-2 points

I suppose this guy is also a 'Fraud, hypocrite, Anti-Semite.'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/is-gideon-levy-the-m...


amber

Fri, 09/24/2010 - 16:52

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2 points

zair

Yep.


amber

Fri, 09/24/2010 - 16:54

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0 points

Levy works fo r a publication whose editor said, when talking to Condoleeza Rice, "Israel needs to be raped". Hari says Israel "stinks of sh?t".

So zair, you have simply proven the point.


mattpryor

Fri, 09/24/2010 - 16:55

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1 point

Nope, he's just a man who's made an awful lot of money by betraying his country and playing into the hands of their enemies. His choice, his consequences.

At least he's not so ashamed of his odious views that he has to hide behind a pseudonym.


happygoldfish

Sat, 09/25/2010 - 22:20

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0 points

ibrows, you're just making this up

ibrows: But what makes this massacre at Deir Yassin even more shocking is that more than sixty years on, there is still a total denial by Israel that it took place, a total silencing of the memories of the more than a hundred Palestinians who lost their lives.

not only is there not total denial and silence, but there are plenty of references to it on israeli government websites, for example, golda meir's 15/12/61 speech to the un general assembly …

Arab representatives stressed the tragedy of Deir Yassin, where civilian Arabs were murdered by a Jewish dissident group. This action was at once disavowed and condemned by the official Jewish leadership.

your accusation that israelis totally deny deir yassin and won't talk about it, although they unequivocally condemned it at the time and publicise it still, is simply racism

as, of course, is your comparison between the holocaust and deir yassin, or between the yad vashem memorial (a thousand miles from the death sites) and a projected memorial at the site of deir yassin


ibrows

Sun, 09/26/2010 - 19:30

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0 points

happygoldfish

I did not make a comparison, i merely said from Vad Vashem you can see the site of Deir Yassin. And i said that both tragedies should be remembered.

If Israel has truly acknowledged Deir Yassin, then why is it still preventing the construction of a commoration at the site of Deir Yassin?

Also let it not be forgotten that the 'Jewish dissident' group's leader Menachem Begin, went on to become the Israeli Prime Minister.


Advis3r

Sun, 09/26/2010 - 22:45

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1 point

Please explain why Israel should commemorate Deir Yassin did the Arabs commemorate the massacre of the Doctors and Nurses in the Haddassah Convoy or the Jewish inhabitants of Hebron who were murdered in the progrom carried out at the instance of the Grand Mufti in 1929? In any event your comparison of the Holocaust with the War of Indepenedence in 1948 is morally repugnanat - the Arabs started the War not the Jews and as such civuilian casualties were as a consequwnce of their invasion of the new State - on the other hand are you suggesting the Jews brought the Holocaust upon themselves in the same way?


amber

Sun, 09/26/2010 - 23:16

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0 points

ibrows
Your comparison is odious - and antisemitic.


happygoldfish

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 00:09

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0 points

ibrows: I did not make a comparison …

ibrows, even your title is a comparison … "Remembering Yad Vashem and Deir Yassin" …

there's nothing in it but a comparison!

happygoldfish: ibrows, you're just making this up

ibrows: But what makes this massacre at Deir Yassin even more shocking is that more than sixty years on, there is still a total denial by Israel that it took place, a total silencing of the memories of the more than a hundred Palestinians who lost their lives.


your accusation that israelis totally deny deir yassin and won't talk about it, although they unequivocally condemned it at the time and publicise it still, is simply racism

ibrows: If Israel has truly acknowledged Deir Yassin …

it's like water off a duck's back

you write a racist lie about a total denial by israel, and when caught out you change it to claiming a not-total admission by israel!


Yvetta

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 08:13

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0 points

Excellent points (as usual), Amber, Adviser, Matt ...


ibrows

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 09:29

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0 points

My title simply suggests that both Yad Vashem and Deir Yassin should be remembered and allowed commemoration, which in the case of Deir Yassin is denied by Israel.

I did not compare the two, I merely detailed the close proximity of them both, and the fact that Yad Vashem is rightly commemorated, yet there is a total denial of a commemoration at Deir Yassin.

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