Re: The PSC Meeting


By Lord Andrew Phi...
November 11, 2010
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I have just had drawn to my attention a contribution made to The JC.com website on 3rd November by Jonathan Hoffman. It comments on a short speech I made at a PSC meeting last week. It does not report what I said fairly, or accurately (sadly, not for the first time in the JC as far as I am concerned.)
I will not try the patience of the readers of this blog (and my own!) by detailing all his studied distortions. One example, taken from the start of his piece, may serve to give the flavour.
He states that I said “I do believe in the right of Israel to exist”, he adding “Well thanks buddy – and France? Germany? England?”
In fact I emphasised that I believe “passionately” in the right of Israel to exist in freedom and security, adding that I believed in a similar right for Palestine. I did not also say, but could have, that I volunteered to fight for Israel in 1973.
Israel is in my view destroying its long-term security and harmony inter alia and particularly by its military occupation and colonisation of the West Bank (now extending to 42% of that territory, according to the latest Foreign Office estimate).
I will not be deterred from speaking out against that self-defeating, provocative and illegal policy, and its awful impact on the Palestinians.

COMMENTS

telegramsam

Thu, 11/11/2010 - 19:49

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You tell me, Avraham, you are the one with friends in low places.


Avraham Reiss

Thu, 11/11/2010 - 19:51

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"I don't know about the reptillian Stevieb, but there seems to have been some sort of cull of the atrocious."

Impossible: you are still here. But what about the BOD?


telegramsam

Thu, 11/11/2010 - 19:59

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What about it? I wouldn't know - not my bailiwick.


telegramsam

Thu, 11/11/2010 - 20:02

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Avraham, are you under the mistaken impression that I am Daniel Vulkan? First, Moshe now Daniel. Are you going to run the gamut of biblical names? Jeez.
Anyway, seems that Zombie time has arrived. Enjoy yourselves.


Avraham Reiss

Thu, 11/11/2010 - 20:04

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DV is also a possibility - but no hurry, we're working on it and will get there. A day sooner or later - no matter.


telegramsam

Thu, 11/11/2010 - 20:26

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Be my guess, knock yourself out. But I wouldn't rely on Jonathan; he has as poor a record as you of getting things wrong.


Avraham Reiss

Thu, 11/11/2010 - 20:39

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You should be planning ahead for when we get there ...


telegramsam

Thu, 11/11/2010 - 20:43

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Who is this "we", Kemo Sabe? You are a one-"man"-band.


Yoni1

Thu, 11/11/2010 - 21:33

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"But I wouldn't rely on Jonathan; he has as poor a record as you of getting things wrong."

From the ignorance champion on JC.


Yoni1

Thu, 11/11/2010 - 21:37

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His Noble Andrewship is a lawyer??? And yet he bandies about this ignorant nonsense about 'illegal' Israeli policies?
They really do give out these degrees to all comers.


Yoni1

Thu, 11/11/2010 - 21:38

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"The hubris shown by Israel – targeted assassinations in hotel rooms, civilian massacres, stolen passports, murder on the high seas"

Those antisemites have learned well from Goebbels: "Lie, lie, lie through your teeth. Some idiots are bound to fall for it".


Avraham Reiss

Thu, 11/11/2010 - 21:54

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Yoni1:
"They really do give out these degrees to all comers."

:-) Nice one! Keep 'em coming!


Yvetta

Thu, 11/11/2010 - 22:24

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Kemo Sabe?
Lawks, it's been several lifetimes since Jay Silverheels uttered that one!


amber

Thu, 11/11/2010 - 22:55

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Phillips' "blog" contains no substance rebutting anything Jonathan said. Je just seems to be upset at being shown up for what he is.


amber

Thu, 11/11/2010 - 22:56

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tsam, this is a serious issue, clouded by your inevitable inane prattlings off subject.


Avraham Reiss

Fri, 11/12/2010 - 00:26

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"I did not also say, but could have, that I volunteered to fight for Israel in 1973."

An empty gesture at best. Did he really think that at a time when Israel was fighting for its life, up to its neck in muck and bullets,that the IDF was going to take soapy-soft English Jews, most of whom knew little or no Hebrew, and there and then start teaching them Hebrew AND put them thru combat training?

He KNEW it wasn't going to happen, so did it for the kudos, so that 40 years later he could boast and say "well, I offered to help, but ..."

Empty vassals (that's no sp. mistake) make most sound.


telegramsam

Fri, 11/12/2010 - 07:26

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Still no verbatim report of the speech. Where is it?


Avraham Reiss

Fri, 11/12/2010 - 08:42

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From a speech by Nick Clegg, as reported by JC reporter Martin Bright:
http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/41015/nick-clegg-we-got-it-wrong-israe...

"Nor did he refer to last week’s comments by Lib Dem peer Lord Phillips to a Palestine Solidarity Campaign meeting in Westminster, that America was in the grip of the “Israel lobby” and that Europe was unable to think straight about Israel because of the Holocaust.

Lord Phillips’ remarks are understood to have sparked a rare formal complaint to Mr Clegg by the Board of Deputies, the Jewish Leadership Council and the Community Security Trust. The complaint was followed by a meeting between the three organisations and LibDem Chief Whip Alastair Carmichael."


Avraham Reiss

Fri, 11/12/2010 - 08:44

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telegramsam, I now want to see you hound and pester JC Reporter Matin Bright for the transcript from which he copied the contents of his report.


Avraham Reiss

Fri, 11/12/2010 - 08:50

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telegramsam, you have been hounding Jonathan for a few days because he wrote:
"In particular you said "Europe cannot think straight about Israel because of the Holocaust and America is in the grip of the well-organised Jewish lobby."

You have just seen proof - two posts above this one - that JC reporter Martin Bright reported EXACTLY THE SAME THING.

Either emand proof from reporter Bright or admit that Jonathan gave an exact report of what was said.

We all know here that you are not man enough to do either.


Avraham Reiss

Fri, 11/12/2010 - 08:58

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telegramsam, we are waiting ....


Yvetta

Fri, 11/12/2010 - 09:22

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Game, set and match to Shahar P's countryman!


telegramsam

Fri, 11/12/2010 - 09:44

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Avraham, some of us have a life. I have just got back from a lovely autumnal 10k run in rural Hertfordshire. And what? That's a report of Cleggy's talk, not a verbatim transcript of what the good lord said. So we are still waiting.


Avraham Reiss

Fri, 11/12/2010 - 09:53

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IF a JC reporter isn't reliable enough for you, then have the intellectual honesty (sorry, I haven't got time to explain the meaning of the word 'honesty') to stop using the paper's facilities - in particluar, the blogging facilities.

You have in effect said that as far as you are concerned, JC Reporter Martin Bright is not a reliable source.


telegramsam

Fri, 11/12/2010 - 09:57

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Read this, I'll write it slowly for you to understand: Bright is reliable. He did not present a verbatim report of the Phillips speech. It was a report of the Clegg speech to Lib Dem Friends of Israel. DO YOU UN-DER-STAND THAT, AV-RA-HAM?


Avraham Reiss

Fri, 11/12/2010 - 10:22

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Ypu just can't admit defeat. The para I quoted was Bright reporting part of Phillip's speech. The aftermath complaints by the BOD and others are also a fiction? They complained about something that wasn't said?

How come Phillips isn't suing already?

You've been proven a liar again and again and again ...


amber

Fri, 11/12/2010 - 10:30

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Come on tsam, we're still waiting...Why have you gone all shy?


Avraham Reiss

Fri, 11/12/2010 - 10:50

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He's not shy, he's busy.

He's finished his 'autumn run' in 'hertfordshire' has gone to 'work' (probably the local labour exchange), and has meetings until 1:00 (with his probation officers).


Yoni1

Fri, 11/12/2010 - 10:53

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"An empty gesture at best. Did he really think that at a time when Israel was fighting for its life, up to its neck in muck and bullets,that the IDF was going to take soapy-soft English Jews, most of whom knew little or no Hebrew, and there and then start teaching them Hebrew AND put them thru combat training?
He KNEW it wasn't going to happen, so did it for the kudos, so that 40 years later he could boast and say "well, I offered to help, but ...""

Absolutely. Istra be-lagina ...
What a pompous nonentity.


Jonathan Hoffman

Fri, 11/12/2010 - 11:33

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" ....soapy-soft English Jews"

To the best of my knowledge, he is not Jewish


Avraham Reiss

Fri, 11/12/2010 - 11:37

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Shame! That lowers my estimation of him.

Everyone knows that all the Grade One anti-Semites are Jewish!


Avraham Reiss

Fri, 11/12/2010 - 11:39

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How come my previous comment hasn't been moderated? I've just launched a slanderous attack on the quality of non-Jewish anti-Semites, and it's left standing there?

Where will it all end?


telegramsam

Fri, 11/12/2010 - 12:45

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Back in the office now and a quick response before I go get some lunch. Why are you trying to dig Jonathan out of his hole? It wouldn't be the first time that he has cried wolf over something and then had to issue a grovelling apology. Let's see a verbatim transcript of Phillips's comments, and then decide. Why hasn't Phillips sued? Maybe he reckons that Jonathan has no assets so it would be a worthless move.


telegramsam

Fri, 11/12/2010 - 12:46

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Avraham, maybe they didn't moderate your post to show just how ridiculous it -- and you -- are. Still convinced I work at the BoD, by the way?


telegramsam

Fri, 11/12/2010 - 12:47

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Lunch beckons, Shabbat Shalom if you are so inclined.


Avraham Reiss

Fri, 11/12/2010 - 13:08

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"Still convinced I work at the BoD, by the way?"

Let's just say that you emailed me from there.


telegramsam

Fri, 11/12/2010 - 13:32

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Email you? Is that another of your sick fantasies? Who'd want to email you?


Jonathan Hoffman

Fri, 11/12/2010 - 17:06

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