On the Jerusalem-Tehran bus


By telegramsam
November 21, 2010
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Now they are going to make gender separation legal. In Hebrew, that's called making the sheretz kosher.
That's why Mick Davis is right. When a dear friend starts behaving strangely and unacceptably, as a dear freind you must point out and criticise the strange and unacceptable behaviour. We have but one state for the Jewish people, we shouldn't want it to be like Iran.

Supreme Court may allow segregated buses
By RON FRIEDMAN AND JONAH MANDEL
21/11/2010
IRAC says court "believed the haredim;" decision may authorize "voluntary separation," as long as riders aren't forced into separate seating.

Will the Supreme Court allow sex-segregated buses to continue operating? Supreme Court Judge Eliakim Rubenstein said in court Sunday that the judges were leaning towards accepting the recommendations of a special Transportation Ministry committee established in order to regulate the operation of Mehadrin buses. The committee was formed in 2008 in response to a petition issued against the separation arrangement by Israel Religious Action Center (IRAC) and others. According to the committee’s recommendations, while the separation is forbidden by law, it will be allowed to continue on a voluntary basis and as long as bus riders weren’t coerced into sitting separately.

“We have read all the reactions of the sides and are inclined to go along with the recommendations adopted by the minister, meaning the professionally decided on effort to balance the sides,” said Rubenstein. “We are aware that the parties have reservations and are of the opinion that the conclusions [of the committee] are balanced.”

The High Court has been deliberating the case, which was filed against the Ministry of Transportation and the Egged Bus Company claiming that the lines are illegal because they discriminate against women, restrict freedom of movement and fail to protect citizens from religious coercion since 2007. The lines were originally established in the beginning of the past decade to increase haredi use of public transportation by allowing them to observe what some consider to be a halachic ruling forbidding men and women to sit next to each other.

The separation was supposed to be regulated on a voluntary basis, whereby both the front and back doors of the buses would be available for boarding and people could choose where they wanted to sit, but the plaintiffs found that in many cases the separation was vigorously enforced by extremist, self appointed watchdogs from the haredi community and cited cases where women who sat in “male territory,” at the front of the bus, were intimidated and bullied into moving to the back or getting off the bus altogether.

The committee’s recommendations, which were adopted in February by Transportation Minister Yisrael Katz, stipulated that there was no legal way to enforce separation, but that it was possible to set up an arrangement that would allow voluntary separation for those who choose it. According to the recommendations, by opening both the front and read doors of the bus for boarding, passengers could decide which door they wanted to board from and, either honor the separation arrangement or not.

The Masorti (Conservative) Movement of Israel's executive director Yizhar Hess spoke out against “an attitude to exclude women from the public realm in the name of multi-cultural values, i.e. assisting minority communities to safeguard their culture, when that defense is interlocked with degradation,” and called the separation on buses “a contemptuous phenomenon.”

The national religious amicus curiae to the petition – Kolech, Ne’emanei Torah Ve’avodah (The Faithful of Torah and Labor), the Ya'acov Herzog Center and Jerusalem movements called on the court not to accept the committee's recommendation to allow the back door to continue functioning as an entrance to the buses, which would allow the separation to be forced upon the women, and said that the Transportation Ministry's claim that the Mehadrin lines would serve as a “pilot” for a future plan to have the back doors open for alighting on all busses is “problematic” and fusion of two unrelated issues.

“At IRAC's behest, the committee's conclusions prohibiting any form of separation were fully accepted. The Transportation Ministry must ensure that there is no coercion or violence against women. The Reform Movement will continue to monitor the implementation of the decision,” read a guarded announcement by IRAC the legal and advocacy arm of the Israel Movement for Progressive Judaism, following the court discussion.

Speaking with The Jerusalem Post, IRAC's executive director Anat Hoffman explained the complexity of the court's apparently impending ruling.

“On the fundamental level, the court accepted the committee's recommendations, which state that separation in public transportation is illegal. You cannot, of course, force people to sit next to one another. But in practice, in the buses, there is a dispute over whether the seating arrangements are indeed voluntary. The justices believed the haredi representatives, who told the court that the Eda Haredit took great measures to curb the violence against women who are 'out of line,' they said they had ads in the newspapers. We saw no documentation of such ads,” Hoffman noted. “The judges also chose to believe Egged that every complaint [about violence against women] will be treated, they don't have the resources to do that.”

“So as far as the practical level goes, there is room for disappointment, since the moment it is agreed that the back door will open, a haredi women has no choice but to embark from there,” she added.

COMMENTS

Avraham Reiss

21 November, 2010 - 19:51

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"When a dear friend starts behaving strangely and unacceptably, as a dear freind you must point out and criticise the strange and unacceptable behaviour. We have but one state for the Jewish people, we shouldn't want it to be like Iran."

You are no friend of the Jewish People. You choose to live elsewhere and snipe at it from outside, day and night. You and this mick davis jerk together. And add your mentor, nick saphir of the NIF, while we're about it.

If anyone is behaving like an Iranian, it's you, hiding behind a stupid pseudonym, hiding like the Iranian Secret Police. That's a regime that would suit you well.
Alternately, you wouldn't last 5 minutes there.

How about going there and proving me wrong?


telegramsam

21 November, 2010 - 19:56

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No, Avraham, it is you who is no friend of anyone apart from all those who are Avraham Reiss or who agree with him. You are one of the most unJewish people anyone could have had the misfortune to meet.
And if we are talking about Iranian-style secret police, what about your moser and schtinkerei plans to whisper in Ayatollah Ovadia's lug-hole? Seems it is you who wants Israel to become like Iran, not I.


telegramsam

21 November, 2010 - 19:57

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So off you go and put that in your little hate-site.


Yehuda Erdman

21 November, 2010 - 21:20

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Having myself travelled on public buses in Jerusalem it did make me uncomfortable to observe men sitting together at the front and women together at the back.
It does remind me of segregation in the deep south of the USA up to the time that Bobby Kennedy as Attorney General outlawed this practise. About 50 years later the fruits of the civil rights movement in the USA, which American Jews supported strongly, are there for all to see.
Arfo-Caribbean Americans have taken their rightful place in USA society.


Avraham Reiss

21 November, 2010 - 22:04

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tspam,
for all your fascistic rhetoric, I live in Israel. YOU are a REJECT.


Avraham Reiss

21 November, 2010 - 22:35

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Erdman:
"Having myself travelled on public buses in Jerusalem it did make me uncomfortable to observe men sitting together at the front and women together at the back."

Living in Jerusalem, I use buses 5 days a week to get to where I study Torah in the morning. I have NEVER seen "segregation" on buses here.

Which means that if you did, you went specially into Haredi areas, looking for trouble, just so that you could come back to the UK and tittle-tattle.

meretz supporters, of which you are self-admittedly one, have no business whatsoever in Haredi areas (I don't either). so you were obviously looking for trouble.

Again, what have you done for the Anglo-Jewish needy?
No answer?


amber

21 November, 2010 - 22:37

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Yehuda, comparisons with black people in the segregated south are completely wrongheaded.

Last time I looked, women play a full and active role in Israeli society - and much more than in any of Israel's Arab neighbours. Is there room for improvement? Yes - but it's hardly akin to racist segregation.


amber

21 November, 2010 - 22:38

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tspam, you use of anti-Israel videos, nazi terminology when describing other Jews, and constant and unceasing attacks on your fellow Jews mark you out for what you are.

Shame on you.


Yoni1

21 November, 2010 - 22:53

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2 points

"meretz supporters, of which you are self-admittedly one, have no business whatsoever in Haredi areas"

What utter drivel. The haredi don't own the streets: they are public property.


Yoni1

21 November, 2010 - 22:55

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Amber, that's not what Yehuda is saying: he is complaining that the haredis are attempting to treat women the way blacks were being treated in the segregation era.

Don't forget that spammo also uses Nazi terminology against those he disagrees with.


jose (not verified)

22 November, 2010 - 02:21

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Who cares what the Haredi men and women do, provided they pay for their own bus service? And I think that is happening in fact: they pay for these special buses.

If those stupid women like to be segregated, that is all they deserve. On the other hand, it would unlawful to do that in buses paid by the general public. And it would be nice to make sure they don't use illegally acquired government money to pay for the special buses.


Avraham Reiss

22 November, 2010 - 09:06

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Yoni: ""meretz supporters, of which you are self-admittedly one, have no business whatsoever in Haredi areas"

What utter drivel. The haredi don't own the streets: they are public property."
-----
Fool! Idiot! If you don't understand simple posts, DON'T comment on them!

Nobody said the streets weren't public property. The question was: What was Erdman doing there! He hasn't got an answer, other than provocation, to which he won't admit.


telegramsam

22 November, 2010 - 09:37

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So, travelling on public transport is now a provocation pace Reiss. Priceless.


jose (not verified)

22 November, 2010 - 11:39

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tsam try to focus on the ills of Iran, which are much worse than those of Israel. When was the last time you blogged about Sakineh ?


Yoni1

22 November, 2010 - 11:49

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The halfwit (5%-wit?) Avraham calls me a fool.
Which part of "meretz supporters ... have no business whatsoever in Haredi areas" are you having trouble with construing as "They should not be going there?", 5%-wit?


Yvetta

22 November, 2010 - 12:12

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Let Chutzpahdik Mick settle in Israel and vote in its democratic process instead of carping about it from afar.


telegramsam

22 November, 2010 - 12:18

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Glad to see La feminista Yvetta standing up for the sisterhood. First it's buses, then it'll be burkas.


Yvetta

22 November, 2010 - 12:59

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What jose said at 02:21


Yehuda Erdman

22 November, 2010 - 22:18

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Reiss
Sorry to disappoint you but I was not in the Haredi quarter to stir up trouble. I actually believe in a pluralistic approach when it comes to people wishing to practise their religion or not to believe in God. I do wish though that the extremists like yourself would allow their fellow Jews to also practise according to their own criteria. This includes Reform, Liberal, Modern Orthodox, Ultra-Orthodox, Humanists, Agnostics and Atheistic Jews.
By the same token tolerance is extended to other religions including Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Sikhism, Hinduism etc. In the context of Israel the Bahai faith is a recognised religion because of the close ties the founders had with Acco and now Haifa.

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