Louis Theroux and the Ultra Zionists


By mattpryor
January 28, 2011
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This is a heads up. Louis Theroux has made a documentary set in Judea and Samaria where he spends time with some "ultra Zionists" and gets to know them. It will be aired on BBC2 on the 3rd of February.

My initial reaction to this when I saw the trailer was the familiar sinking feeling I get whenever I hear about this kind of "exposé" into Israel. It also occurred to me that the timing seems to be calculated given everything else that's going on at the moment and the political war that is being fought against Israel and in particular the religious Jews that wish to live in Judea and Samaria in spite of the dangers.

However, I'm an optimist. Whenever I've watched Louis Theroux's documentaries before I've been impressed by his ability to show a very human side to issues which to most people are abstract, black and white. His shows are normally heart warming and enlightening and if anything increase peoples' understanding of situations. He also usually tells the truth, without agenda.

So this may be a positive - the much demonised settlers being given a chance to show their side of the story and show it how it is. In which case I'm sure the "anti-Zionists" will hate it and accuse Theroux of bias. Or, it may show things which people find unpleasant and it may increase pressure on the Israeli government to take action against the settler movement. But as long as it's truthful then I think knowledge can only be a good thing. It may even relieve some of the tension, as I'm sure there are some people in the UK whose image of settlers in their imagination is far, far worse than the reality.

Incidentally Louis Theroux is very popular in Israel, so this show should also give Israelis an opportunity to have a greater understanding of the situation on the "frontier".

There is a website here by the makers of the programme with more information - worth a read.

http://www.broadcastnow.co.uk/technology/on-location/louis-theroux-ultra...

What do you all think? Something to be happy about or not?

Let's all try and watch it and compare notes after the show.

COMMENTS

Yvetta

Fri, 01/28/2011 - 12:58

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2 points

Good bloodhounding, Matt!


zair (not verified)

Fri, 01/28/2011 - 13:59

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-1 points

Maybe we'll get to understand why the extremists do this kind of thing:

http://972mag.com/breaking-settlers-kill-palestinian-near-iraq-burin/


mattpryor

Fri, 01/28/2011 - 15:49

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1 point

Yes, maybe we will zair.

Every loss of life is a tragedy.


Watchful Iris (not verified)

Fri, 01/28/2011 - 16:08

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-3 points

Don't worry, Zair.....the IDF is "investigating"!!!


mattpryor

Fri, 01/28/2011 - 16:22

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1 point

Tell me zair, what's the Palestinians' side of the story? The police are saying that he was set upon by a gang of youths hurling rocks at him. That would seem to make it a pretty clear case of self defence.

So what actually happened, since you seem to know so much about it?


mattpryor

Fri, 01/28/2011 - 16:23

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1 point

And why do you call him an extremist? Do you know him? Has he shared extremist views with you?


stellasolomons

Fri, 01/28/2011 - 16:26

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1 point

Stand by for the on-line comments after the programme goes on air:( Not too happy about the word Zionist more and more used as a perjorative routinely. I mean, compare it to the word Francophile, for example to see racism bleached clean. Keyboards at the ready...


mattpryor

Fri, 01/28/2011 - 16:29

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1 point

Hi Stella. I know what you mean. Should be interesting anyway.


Yoni1

Fri, 01/28/2011 - 17:30

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2 points

"So what actually happened, since you seem to know so much about it?"

Thanks for the laugh, Matt.

"Don't worry, Zair.....the IDF is "investigating"!"

Ah, just the usual spittle-flecked Jew-hatred from the usual moronic source.


mattpryor

Fri, 01/28/2011 - 17:40

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2 points

Thanks for the laugh, Matt.

I was being slightly sarcastic ;)


Yoni1

Fri, 01/28/2011 - 17:47

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2 points

I know :)


jose (not verified)

Fri, 01/28/2011 - 23:09

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1 point

Maybe we'll get to understand why the extremists do this kind of thing

Why is not surprising that zair quotes the antisemitic website that was supporting the blood libel in Bilin?


zair (not verified)

Sat, 01/29/2011 - 10:01

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-1 points

matt & yoni - I wouldn't quit your day jobs


jose (not verified)

Sat, 01/29/2011 - 10:19

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1 point

matt & yoni - I wouldn't quit your day jobs

You could not do that yourself, since you haven't got one (since antisemitism does not count as a job).


Yoni1

Sat, 01/29/2011 - 17:52

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1 point

"matt & yoni - I wouldn't quit your day jobs"

Why would I want to? I do very well in my job, unlike the wino called Zair who sleeps under railway bridges.


zair (not verified)

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 01:34

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-1 points

jose & yoni, seriously, please, don't quit your day jobs.


jose (not verified)

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 06:10

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1 point

jose & yoni, seriously, please, don't quit your day jobs

I would gladly say the same to you, Hater zair, but you obviously haven't had any for a long time! LOL!


zair (not verified)

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 23:09

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0 points

'Throughout his journey, Louis gets close to the people most involved with driving the extreme end of the Jewish settler movement - finding them warm, friendly, humorous, and deeply troubling.'

More here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00ybyxp

Should be fun listening to the crack pot extremists.


amber

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 23:59

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1 point

zair, I listen to your crackpot hatred all the time.

Not really much fun.


jose (not verified)

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 06:26

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0 points

Should be fun listening to the crack pot extremists.

Well, zair, remember that you are a crackpot too, full of hate. Nevertheless, we should not hate Pakistanis, because you are not mainstrean.


zair (not verified)

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 10:49

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-1 points

amby & jose, glad to hear that you agree at least that the settler movement are a bunch of crack pots. That is progress indeed. Just so that you don't get tarred with the same brush as these crack pots, which of their actions and policies don't you agree with?


mattpryor

Tue, 02/01/2011 - 12:27

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1 point

the settler movement are a bunch of crack pots

I support the settler movement, in so far as their claim to settle Judea and Samaria is at least as valid as any Arab claim, and whereas they are prepared to share the land the so-called anti-Zionists want the region to be cleansed of Jews. So when forced to choose between supporting Jews and supporting people who want to kill or drive out Jews, I will always support Jews.

So if you want to go around tarring and feathering people (well it makes a difference from sawing their heads off, so at least it's something different) you can tar me with whatever brush you want, and in return I will tar you with the same brush as any other Jew hater - including Hitler and Hamas.

Happy?


Yoni1

Tue, 02/01/2011 - 12:36

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2 points

More vile antisemitic bile from the vile antisemite Zair.
Piss off back to Stormfront, Nazi.


jose (not verified)

Fri, 02/04/2011 - 12:07

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0 points

amby & jose, glad to hear that you agree at least that the settler movement are a bunch of crack pots.

Unlike you, we don't judge people as a group. There are bad settlers and good ones. The only thing we know is bad is the PA racist laws about Israeli Jews.


mattpryor

Fri, 02/04/2011 - 12:22

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-1 points

Well Jose, the people interviewed in the program last night, assuming they were the "worst" the BBC could find, seemed like very nice people with a profound attachment to the land.

It has made me rethink a lot of my ideas about peace and coexistence. I think the program will be a good thing in that it increases peoples' understanding of the issues. Something the other side will doubtlessly hate since they rely on lies and propaganda to further their cause and the truth does not sit well with their narrative.

Now it would be nice to see a similar documentary about the good things happening to further peace, instead of focussing on the conflicts.


jose (not verified)

Fri, 02/04/2011 - 12:31

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0 points

Unfortunately, Matt, the people we are dealing with here 'think' in black or white and can't get the notion of degrees. Besides, they 'think' in clichés, categories: "settler", "Zionist", "capitalist", "imperialist" are just like bad names to them.
To make peace, we shall have to get rid of these manichean mentalities.


Yoni1

Fri, 02/04/2011 - 12:36

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2 points

"while it didn't convert me to thinking that Israeli colonization of the West Bank is legitimate"

Been swallowing too many Guardian lies uncritically, have you?
There is no 'colonisation'. J&S is part of the Jewish homeland. Neither you nor anyone else is entitled to decree that it must be Judenrein, and you are not in a position to decide on the 'legitimacy' of Jews living there.


Yoni1

Fri, 02/04/2011 - 12:37

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-1 points

"we shall have to get rid of these manichean mentalities"

Genocidal Nazi Islamic terrorists are evil. There are no 'shades' involved.


jose (not verified)

Fri, 02/04/2011 - 13:10

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-1 points

Genocidal Nazi Islamic terrorists are evil. There are no 'shades' involved.

No comment.


mattpryor

Fri, 02/04/2011 - 13:32

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-1 points

Jose what do you think the chances of this show being shown in Israel are?


jose (not verified)

Fri, 02/04/2011 - 13:50

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-1 points

Don't know. High, I would say.


AlistairClark

Sat, 02/05/2011 - 05:21

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0 points

I watched Louis in the occupied territory's.I found it an eye opener to say the least.I hope Israel and the Palestinian Authority find peace.To be truthful I was shocked and disgusted.


jose (not verified)

Sat, 02/05/2011 - 16:46

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1 point

As for being "Judenrein", I don't find Holocaust references particularly useful or proportionate.

Only if you don't listen to recent declarations of Abbas, stating that he didn't want any Israeli (Jew of course, not Arabs) in his future 'Palestine'.

but that these settlements are a) illegal under international law

Buying land there is forbidden to Jews? Under international law? I would like to see that law, please.

that it's a tough break on the Arabs, who were entitled to think after 1948 that at least they'd keep some of the land where they'd lived for generations.

Shaky ground there. Remember that most are descendant of early 20th century colons, just as the Jewish Zionist. Moreover, that does not justify the Judenrein part of it.
Remember that 'Palestinians' got 75% of 'Palestine'. Considering their numbers, they are quite well served.


jose (not verified)

Sat, 02/05/2011 - 16:48

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0 points

By the way Yoni, does supporting a two-state solution make me a Nazi / Jew-hater? A yes or no response will do fine...

A one-state solution supporter is by definition an antisemite. As for the two-state solution, there is a majority in Israel to think it is inevitable and agree with it willy-nilly.
The three state solution will be soon the only one anyway.


jose (not verified)

Sat, 02/05/2011 - 17:36

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0 points

We in the west should turn our backs on the lot of you - Jews and Arabs - and let you both squabble over your precious desert of rocks for all eternity.

What is that "we", by the way? I'm a westerner and vote in France. One thing Jews don't need is people giving their risky advices while not risking anything themselves.
Who will resurrect the victims of your advices?


jose (not verified)

Sat, 02/05/2011 - 17:40

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0 points

Three states? Are you serious? You want to make it even more bloody complicated?

Remember that the HAMAS does not agree with Fatah? So who is making things complicated in the Middle East. Jews have one tiny state, Arabs have all the rest, including one 'Palestinian' state and potential two others. Land surface available to 'Palestinians' is three times that of the Jews, while Jews represent nearly 40% of the population.
That is a lot, don't you think?


Yoni1

Sat, 02/05/2011 - 18:35

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0 points

"We in the west should turn our backs on the lot of you - Jews and Arabs - and let you both squabble over your precious desert of rocks for all eternity"

I wonder who died and made you king of the West. You don't speak for the West. I am a Brit, so is Matt, which makes us Westerners.

"As for being "Judenrein", I don't find Holocaust references particularly useful or proportionate"

That makes you ignorant. The PA expressly wants to keep them Judenrein, so does Hamas.

"I'm expressing an opinion - not that that the West Bank should be Judenrein, but that these settlements are a) illegal under international law"

That makes you an ignorant idiot.


Yoni1

Sat, 02/05/2011 - 19:09

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1 point

Rob, you silly asshole, you are the one who started shooting off your mouth about 'you lot', the natives who should be abandoned by 'we' the civilised Westerners to their sorry but well-deserved fate. Never mind that Western intervention has made things very much worse for those natives.
Don't be surprised, then, if this racist attitude results in people telling you off.

"The Palestinians have been given a slice of land"

Drivel. No 'Palestinians' have been given anything, mainly because there are no 'Palestinians'. They were invented quite recently. Do learn some history before shooting your mouth off, you just make yourself look ignorant and stupid.

The same goes for regurgitating this nonsense about the settlements being 'illegal'. There is no law that says they are. Try to look for one before shooting off your mouth - you won't find any.

"Who's the Nazi now?"

I didn't call you Nazi, you pathetic twat.


Yoni1

Sat, 02/05/2011 - 19:11

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1 point

"Also, would Palestinians be allowed to live in Israeli West Bank settlements? Aren't those settlements Arabrein?"

What an utterly stupid comment. I wasn't demanding that Jews be allowed to become residents of Battir, only that they are entitled to their own villages.


jose (not verified)

Sat, 02/05/2011 - 19:39

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3 points

The Palestinians have been given a slice of land and they don't want to give up more of it. What is so hard to understand about that?

What is so hard to understand that 'Palestinians' have been given three to six times the slice of land 'given' (taken back) to the Jews?
Because, as you ignore, the Negev is 60% of Israel's surface.
So the 25% of 'Palestine' that was 'given' to Jews is in fact 12% of habitable lands. An on these 12%, one fifth of inhabitants are Israeli Arabs. So six million Jews live on 10% of the original 'Palestine' as it was when the British Mandate started. 10 million Arabs live on 80% of it.

Is that a difficult calculation?


jose (not verified)

Sat, 02/05/2011 - 19:43

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3 points

robjessel is the new idiot on the block who subscribed yesterday and already gives his already tried and failed advices, totally ignorant of the history and facts of the Middle East.
Probably a banned user making a comeback.


amber

Sat, 02/05/2011 - 20:00

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3 points

rob jessel, Arabs live in Israel - about 20% of the country is Arab. By contrast, no Jew lives in Gaza, PA administered areas of the West Bank, Jordan (previously 80% of "Palestine") Lebanon (there my still be a handful), Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Libya, Egypt, or the Gulf states. This isn't an accident. Jews were systematically ethnically cleansed from all these Arab areas. So equating the settlements (which are, in essence, a microcosm of Israel) with all of these is, at best, disingenuous.


Yoni1

Sat, 02/05/2011 - 21:03

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3 points

Rob will either come back and try to brazen it out with more lies after being given a thorough drubbing by Jose, Amber and me, or he'll slink away like a snivelling coward.
I suppose I could make book on it. What odds? Hmm ... 4 to 3 on for the former?


Yoni1

Sat, 02/05/2011 - 21:08

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3 points

Just got round to commenting on this nonsense:

"it's a tough break on the Arabs, who were entitled to think after 1948 that at least they'd keep some of the land where they'd lived for generations"

a. The country never belonged to them,
b. they could have lived in peace but for the minor fact that they attacked Israel in 1967 with the express intention of wiping out all the Jews.


AlistairClark

Sat, 02/05/2011 - 21:21

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-3 points

Hi,Amber.You are correct but this was not always the case,Amira Hass the Haaretz journalist used to live in Gaza under a Hamas gov' for a few years.Hamas asked the good lady to leave because they were worried about her safety.If my memory serves me correct.I am sure some Israelis are made welcome in the West Bank too.I know Norman Finklestien has been made welcome and lived with a Palestinian family West Bank at one point too.Its not so much Israelis are not welcome its the IDF presence and Israeli Gov claiming sovereignty on property that Jews buy that is the big concern.Many a good Jew fights to protect the Palestinians,these Jews are always shown hospitality. I know loads of good Jews and good Palestinians also some very pleasant Arabs.


Yoni1

Sat, 02/05/2011 - 21:28

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3 points

"Norman Finklestien has been made welcome"

LOL. Yes, as-a-Jews are made welcome, I have no doubt about that at all.


amber

Sun, 02/06/2011 - 00:20

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1 point

Alastair, that's a bit like pointing to an example here or there where the Nazis ignored someone's Jewish background because they were useful (and there were such examples).

Hamas is a virulently anti-Semitic organization - I suggest you read its founding charter, which advocates the extermination of every last Jew on earth. It also indulges in various anti-Semitic fantasies, freely quoting from the Portocols of the Elders of Zion, as it this were an historical document.

Is it any surprise that they allowed Jews who campaign against their fellow Jews in? These are useful idiots, who can always be exterminated once the goal of eradicating Israel and her people has been achieved.


AlistairClark

Sun, 02/06/2011 - 03:28

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-1 points

"Hamas is a virulently anti-Semitic organization - I suggest you read its founding charter, which advocates the extermination of every last Jew on earth. It also indulges in various anti-Semitic fantasies, freely quoting from the Portocols of the Elders of Zion, as it this were an historical document." I'm not disagreeing with you on that point.All I'm saying is, not all Jews hate Palestinians and vice versa. We should all work against the hate and anger on both sides.There is too much extremism on both sides.We should stop taking sides and do what is right and be honest about it too.When people from both sides are wrong we should condemn them but never hate.I'd like to see all countries in the world step up to the mark bring both sides to court and force them to find away of making peace or make a decision for them if they refuse.


jose (not verified)

Sun, 02/06/2011 - 08:09

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1 point

Norman Finkelstein, Amira Haas are example of useful idiots who have always been welcomed by Nazis, by Stalinists and now by terrorists. This is supposed to prove they were/are not antisemitic?
Please get real!

All I'm saying is, not all Jews hate Palestinians and vice versa.

'Palestinians' are taught to hate Jews in general education and in their mainstream news. Not so in Israel. Putting them on the same level is whitewashing antisemitism.

When people from both sides are wrong we should condemn them but never hate.

Hate is asymmetric here, encouraged by the system on one side only.
There is only one side only who rejects unconditional negotiations. So that you know who to blame for that.


Yoni1

Sun, 02/06/2011 - 08:17

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2 points

"There is too much extremism on both sides"

I don't think Alistair has much of an inkling of a shadow of a clue about the Middle East. Only one side has an official Nazi policy, only one side teaches in its schools that the other side is subhuman and should be exterminated.

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