Liberal Judaism hosts antisemitic speaker

Comments especially welcome from Liberal Judaism members.

Still lurking Troll?

Now are you saying the EUMC doesn't exits, or anti-Semitism doesn't exist?

"No one will believe you" - you talk for everyone?

"Where do you get off on telling other Jews" - all other Jews?

You are one very confused Troll.

"get off on..."

Such an elegant turn of phrase

"You know what led to the destruction of the Second Temple, don't you?"

Sinat chinam (senseless hatred of one Jew for another - such as is exemplified by Halper)

"We support the right of Israelis to live in freedom and security within Israel’s 1967 borders."

Maybe Dan Judelson can tell us how hosting a OneState advocate is consistent with this aim of JFJFP?

Jonathan,
I am a member of Liberal Judaism.
I cannot understand why we are hosting an organisation that demonizes Israel.
I am quite embarrassed that this event is taking place. It appears that JFJFP hold regular events there and I am not happy about that.
Liberal Judaism is about liberal Jewish practice but some have decided that that should also mean liberal politics.

One of Halper's puffs is that he was "nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize" in 2006

But look at the vast number of people who are allowed to "nominate":

1. Members of national assemblies and governments of states;
2. Members of international courts;
3. University rectors; professors of social sciences, history, philosophy, law and theology; directors of peace research institutes and foreign policy institutes;
4. Persons who have been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize;
5. Board members of organizations who have been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize;
6. Active and former members of the Norwegian Nobel Committee; (proposals by members of the Committee to be submitted no later than at the first meeting of the Committee after February 1) and
7. Former advisers appointed by the Norwegian Nobel Institute.

And look who nominated Halper:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Friends_Service_Committee

The Quakers

http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/13/quakers-hosting-fascists-again/

And look who are the "Patrons" of ICAHD UK:

Prof Marc Ellis
Uri Fruchtmann
Prof Colin J Green
The Rt Rev Michael Langrish
(Bishop of Exeter)
Ilan Pappe
John Pilger
Avi Shlaim
Clare Short MP
Revd Stephen Sizer
Jenny Tonge

@Rabbi Danny Rich

What's your justification please?

JFJFP do hold regular meetings there. I am glad to see LJ's posting. Those people I have met from LJ are extremely kind-hearted and articulate and highly critical of Israel. However, I have never sensed any sort of anti-Zionism from them. That said there are a few in JFJFP who have no respect for either Israel or Judaism and all i can suspect is that Rabbi Rich has no idea what bookings are taking place there in his organisation's name.

I am a member of Liberal Judaism and am unhappy that the Montagu Centre would offer a platform to Halper or any organisation that seeks to undermine the State of Israel.
I would be very interested to know if the Officers of Liberal Judaism know of this meeting and approved it? If not an internal debate needs to take place now.

Yes, there are quite a few at LJ that are highly critical of Israel, but I want to assure you that not all of us are.
I am very much pro Israel and am highly critical of people ignoring history and facts.
I am critical of Jews who either out of naivety or just trendy left wing politics, side with those who wish to see our destruction.
Am Yisrael Chai

"Halper also supports a boycott of Israeli goods and academics. 'Singling out' Israel for such treatment is also antisemitic." There are countries that have a history of human rights abuses but it is only Israel that is singled out for boycotts of Israeli goods and academics. Research shows that anti Semitism has increased since the start of the conflict so it is clear anti semitism increases as a result of anti Israeli feeling and demonizing in the UK. hosting an organization that demonizes Israel can only make things worse.

Jonathan says "Halper always advocates 'One State' in his talks. He also calls Israel an 'apartheid state'. "

http://www.thejc.com/news/israel-news/29095/apartheid-activist-slams-isr...

Mr Pogrund, an anti apartheid activist says
" Mr Pogrund said: "People who claim Israel is an apartheid state are doing it with a very clear purpose. They are trying to have Israel declared as illegitimate and a pariah state, as much as South Africa was. What the activists are really about is destroying Israel."

This is not new .Liberal Judaism has form.
Several years ago David Goldberg St Johns Wood Libs hosted a Free Mordechai Vanunnu meeting with Susannah York as a guest speaker.

In the Q and A session that followed ,I pointed out that Vanunnu had been found guilty of espionage and had compromised Israels'security . Their reply was that he was no more then a whistle blower . Of course that makes Burgess , Mcclean ,Blunt and Philby whistle blowers rather then spies in which case why were they sentenced to 30 years . Also I recalled the Rosenburgs being executed for being " whistle blowers "

It seems to me that the only country in the world not permitted to maintain highly confidential material from the public domain is Israel.

The meeting eventually went off topic with members of the audience questioning Israels right of self determination and very existence .

I was sickened that this could take place in a Synagogue and wondered if the members /executive were aware of the purpose of the meeting . Now Im sure they were .

At least you know where you stand with the Islamo fascist / non Jew left wing alliance . The Lib Jew "one state" position is something else . An utter disgrace comes to mind .

Like the NK they are the enemy within.

Off topic

J Clifford are you by any chance the legendary JC who used to wind up the antisemites over at MPAC?

Yes indeed, Jonathan, sinaat chinam, like that propagated by the far right among us who think they can decide who or what Jews can listen to.

Harvey

I sincerely hope so!!

Liberal Rabbi: Calling for End of Jewish State Not Antisemitic

"We do not believe that the call for OneState is antisemitic" - Liberal Rabbi and CEO of Liberal Judaism Danny Rich, at the Halper meeting today

EUMC Definition: "Denying the Jewish people their right to self­determination" is antisemitic

What do LJ members think? Does he speak in your name?

Who made you lot the arbiters of who Jews can or cannot meet or listen to? Seems awfully McCarthyite to me, as well as all these apparently glove puppets hiding behind aliases. Disgraceful, that's what it is.

For moshetzarfati2
Educate yourself:-
http://fra.europa.eu/fraWebsite/home/home_en.htm

It is appalling that publicity is given to these people, once again, nothing more than a bunch of 2-digit IQ, Quislings and traitors, trying to do what Lord Haw haw did to the UK during WWll, that is supporting our enemies with distorted propoganda.
The ideology of Liberal Judaism is a Chillul Hashem and it is exactly what I would expect of them, to be sitting in front of an Aron Hakodesh and inviting speakers to spout this garbage.
Liberal Judaism is as much a part of Judaism as Seventh Day Adventism is a part of the Church of England - it isn't ! it is a fringe movement with no credence or credibility.
It is a disgrace for an organisation that "purports" to be Jewish to be openly advocating the support of the delegitimise Israel campaign.
If there any genuine Jewish people amongst the Liberal Judaism group who are followers of Liberal Judaism and NOT Liberal Politics, I hope they stand up and be counted and throw these idiots/organisers out of office, as at the moment, amongst the mainstream of British Jewry Liberal Judaism is seen as a laughing stock.

I am an LJ member and Danny Rich does not speak in my name

Time Waster

The EUMC is now called the Fundamental Rights Agency. The Definition was approved by representatives of all the member states. It is recognised by the UK and US governments, among many others.

Jon, the only people who are giving anti- and non-Zionists publicity are those who go to all their meetings and get hot under the collar when they are not seen as being the sole arbiters of what is and what isn't Jewish.

Yes, Jon, that's the FRA, not the EUMC. And no mention of any "working definition".

Liberal Judaism, Israel and Zionism

Liberal Judaism's policy is spelled out in our leaflet Liberal Jewish Values: Zionism and Israel.

The Montagu Centre is hired to a number of Jewish and non Jewish organisations including Jews for Justice for Palestinians (JFJFP).  The recent meeting to which Jeff Halper was invited was organised by JFJFP.  It is not Liberal Judaism policy to censor speakers, and it rejects the allegation that the advocacy of a one state solution is by definition anti Semitic

Concerning Israel, Liberal Judaism has long advocated a two state solution, has never supported and does not support boycotts, and does not consider 'apartheid' appropriate terminology in this context.

@DannyRich

How do you know that the members of Liberal Judaism "reject the allegation that the advocacy of a one state solution is by definition antisemitic"? Because that is what you are implying by saying LJ "rejects the allegation that the advocacy of a one state solution is by definition antisemitic."

Have you asked them?

Because the EUMC Definition says it is antisemitic: "Denying the Jewish people their right to self­determination".

'One State' would requite the death of millions of Israelis to impose. It would also mean the end of the Jewish State. I do not believe that you speak for the majority of LJ members. You certainly do not speak for the majority of British Jews and at a time when antisemitic inciodents are at a record, Jewish students on campus are under daily assault and Israel supporters are regularly derided at meetings (and sometimes subject to professional ostracism), your comments and the decision to host Halper are a disgrace.

Well said, rabbi. They oppose boycotts of Israel, but call for censorship and boycotts of those they disagree with. Such hypocrisy. And such blindness, too, harping on about some defunct "working definition" put out by an organisation which doesn't exist any more.

Jon,
Slightly off this topic but I have also asked Richard.
As I am new to this could you say that last Wed. night was typical.

1). Was the audience packed by Travers and jpjpj to shout you down.
2). How come the Police were so close.
3) There seemed to be some Irish guys there supporting Col.Travesty- have you come across them before.
4). How come they seemed to know so much about Col. Tim Collins- former SAS hero- and Col. Richard Kemp.
5). How can I get to know about future meetings.
6). Any meetings where we can get Col. Collins to speak.

Inky_Flag.
Ps.
Richard says you have not served with teh IDF but the lady next to me said you did.

Jonathan, I'm a member of a Liberal congregation, and I despair at the anti-Zionist stance of so many leaders of the movement in this country. In my congregation's literature Israel is rarely mentioned. Rabbi David J. Goldberg appeared on the recent notorious "Despatches" programme doing his bit to put the boot into "the Israel lobby". Rabbi Danny Rich found, avowedly after much soul-searching, that he could not attend the Jewish community's Trafalgar Square rally at the time of Operation Cast Lead. Rabbi Dan Cohn-Sherbok, "Free Palestine" badge on lapel, actaully marched with anti-Israel demonstrators at the time of Israel's counter-terrorism operation in Gaza last year, and wrote an article in the regionally wide-circulating "Western Mail" comparing Gaza to the Warsaw Ghetto. Needless to say, that article has been publicised with alacrity by the enemies of Israel and the Jewish People.
Too many Liberal Jews are behaving like yekkes of yore. "Trembling Israelites".
How different is the great Liberal rabbi in Australia, John Levi, a Zionist to his fingertips.

Sorry, Jonathan, I edited - so my message is now out of sequence.
I'm glad to know that other Liberals put Medinat Israel and Klal Israel ahead of the namby pambyism of so many of our spiritual "leaders".

If only Sidney Brichto was still with us ...

@Yvetta

Judging by the emails I am getting lots of LJ members agree with you. Time for some grass roots action within your community.

Israel through its expansionist policies is leading towards a one-state solution, so what's anti-Semitic about calling for a one-state solution, unless you, Jonathan, think Israel is anti-Semitic? And any way, the EUMC doesn't exist any more, and its "working definition" is dead since it was never adopted, even by its successor organisation. Most governments, including the British and the US, use the far simpler definition of anti-Semitism: hating and acting against Jews qua Jews, without muddying the waters by bringing in Israel.

I really think that there's a large element of "What will the Gentiles say?" among many of the Liberal Jewish "elite" in this country.

I say, Yvetta, you go that local rag's url yet?

Stick to the topic, please.

Yvetta, you seem to have mislaid the url. Can I take it then that the report, ahem, n'existe pas?

Israel is emphasized as important to Jews in the Torah, I can't understand how a movement calling themselves Jewish can decide not to support Israel.

Moshe, you have mail.

Lanne, let's look at this another way. You'd agree with me that the Satmar, Belzer and Gerrer, as well as others are if not movements, then chasidic groups that have every right to call themselves Jewish. They don't support Israel either. Israel isn't the be all and end all of Judaism.

Yvetta, as have you.

Yvetta, as have you.

http://fra.europa.eu/fraWebsite/attachments/factsheet_en.pdf

Revisionist. The FRA succeeded EUMC and EUMC decisions are binding on it. The EUMC Definition was accepted by 54 people, 2 from each of the 27 EU Members. Every government appointed 2 peopleone of whom was a civil servant.

Short of needing to be ratified by national Parliaments, it is as 'adopted' as anyting in the EU can possibly be.

So cut your timewasting nonsense.

Jonathan, you spend a lot of time reminding us of the EUMC definitions of antisemitism,... I would be very interested in an actual explanation for how they came to their conclusions, particularly over the apartheid comparision, which has provoked a lot of discussion on this website.

Could you explain to me the logical process in the reasoning for concluding comparisons of apartheid to Israeli policy. Maybe I'm just too stupid to understand, but maybe ... just maybe the policy isnt that well thought through.

I also think Moshe's glass house reference is very, very apt... care to take it on board JH?

DLE, the "working definition" such as it is, was drafted by the American Jewish Committee. The AJC has a very obvious axe to grind inasmuch as it wants to muddy the waters regarding antisemitism by bringing in Israel.

Yes, Yvetta and Jonathan, I've heard that Sooty, Sweep, Soo and Basil Brush have all expressed outrage at the hosting of a fellow Jew by Liberal Judaism. Ain't it amazing how those so outraged by boycotts and censorships of Israel want to boycott and censor those they don't like and disagree with. McCarthyism, that's what it is.

So this 'EU' definitition was actually drafted by Americans? Small wonder that it does not gel that well with many of us here in Europe then...

Moshe, please let Rabbi Rich speak for himself; in my view he has a great deal of explaining to do. Liberal Judaism appears to have returned with a vengeance to its old pre-Shoah anti-Zionist tricks. Perhaps it has been ambivalent all along. A kind of Unitarianism with the merest veneer of Judaism, perhaps; certainly not, in this country, an intrinsic component of Klal Israel.
Absolutely shameful.

Yvetta, he doesn't owe you nuffink.

By the way,just in case you forgot to mention, Jonathan, the EUMC doesn't exist any more and its "working definition" is as dead as a do-do. Halper might be calling for a one-state solution, but in practice it's the Israeli government which will lead to it through its policies,
So no, Halper's anti-Israel, not anti-semitic.There's a huge difference.
Stop crying wolf. No one will believe you when real anti-Semitism rears its ugly head. And where do you get off on telling other Jews what to say or do? You know what led to the destruction of the Second Temple, don't you?