Is this a joke?

By mattpryor
September 14, 2010

Sometimes (actually most days) I read a newspaper article online that just gets up my nose, without at first knowing why. Usually it has to do with Israel. Today was no exception when, during my daily perusal of the Times website, I came across an article by an Egypt-based journalist, Ashraf Khalil, entitled "Upbeat Hillary Clinton tries to life gloom hanging over the peace talks".

The link is here but as usual it's subscription only so it'll cost a quid to read it (but you'll get 30 days viewing for that).

Most of the article is standard stuff - that Abbas was "forced into negotiations despite none of his demands being met" - the poor little lamb. Fancy being "forced" into negotiating for statehood, which is what the PA claims it wanted all along. And nasty America! Astonishing. Anyway, I finally managed to put my finger on the paragraph that really ired me, and it was this one:

On the other side it has been common knowledge for years that Israel is losing the demographic race. Within a few decades Jews will become a minority — with the prospect of controlling an Arab majority by force. A number of Palestinian analysts and pundits have begun advocating the "one-state solution" — simply waiting until they outnumber the Jews then demanding equal voting rights.

Here we have a not-too-subtle confusion between opinion, fact and plain wishful thinking. Demographic predictions have never been accurate, anywhere. Predicting populations is the same as predicting the future - impossible.

Secondly, he makes a distinction between "Jews" and "Arabs". And yet there are many Jewish Arabs in Israel. Presumably he actually means non-Jewish Arabs, or Muslim Arabs. Why doesn't he be more specific?

Thirdly, the last sentence implies that non-Jews are somehow discriminated against in Israel, which is patently untrue. All Israeli citizens have an equal vote - unlike neighbouring countries such as Jordan (where "Palestinians" - meaning of course refugees from the 1948 war - are not even allowed citizenship). People living under the Palestinian Authority on the other hand have autonomy from Israel and can elect their own leaders - or they could if their elected leaders ever bothered to hold elections. To suggest that they are an oppressed minority is extremely unjust.

So if Palestinians are happy to share a "one state" with Jews, why not now? Why wait until they outnumber them, if the aim is not to completely eradicate the Jewish character of Israel rather than peaceful coexistence? It's incredibly frustrating that these things are thrown around without anyone asking these sorts of questions. I wonder sometimes if the Times editors actually bother reading some of the articles they print.

This is just another example of the steady and subtle undermining of the peace negotiations by Israel's enemies. As time goes by it becomes increasingly obvious to any fair minded person that one side of this dispute seeks reconciliation and peace while the other seeks victory by any means.



Tue, 09/14/2010 - 19:56

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This is Israels last chance for a two state solution.If I were a Palestinian Arab I wouldn't give the idea the time of day. I would say ok Israel the whole of the land and it's people is yours " from the river to the sea " I wish you joy of it. And please bear in mind that something like a million Israeli Jews are either civilised people who want to live in a civilised country that is a full part of the civilised world or is going to grow up to be.The deMographics don't look good I am afraid

Allons y !!!!!!!


Wed, 09/15/2010 - 13:43

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One could equally argue that this is the Palestinian Arabs' last chance to get a State of their own since Abbas is threatening to dissolve the Palestinian Authority if these talks fail. Who will take their place? Hamas? Let's hope not but your guess is as good as mine.

Then what? Wait until Palestinian Arabs outnumber Jews? And do you envisage continual warfare against Israel, and resulting misery for the average Palestinian on the street, for the next 30-50 years until that (maybe) happens?

Even if Palestinians do manage to out-breed Jews over the next generation or two - which is highly dubious - how does that help the stateless "refugees" stuck in camps in Jordan, Syria and Lebanon? How does it help working families and their children in the disputed territories? In fact how does it help anyone at all?

It's a nonsensical argument designed to undermine peace talks. It only strengthens the hand of those that preach warfare and Jihad instead of peaceable negotiations. And it won't fool anyone apart from self-appointed pundits like Mr Khalil.


Wed, 09/15/2010 - 15:17

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Well I don't have any preferences I am just a humble observer.
I merely say if I were a Palestinian Arab I wouldn't touch a two state solution with a barge pole but then I'm not so its irrelevant.

If I were an Israeli Jew on the other hand I would get this thing sorted post haste because the greater Israel that will inevitably evolve will be the death of zionism.
But then I'm not so its irrelevant.

I merely point out that Greater Israel with contain several million Arabs and maybe a million non zionist or post zionist Israeli Jews and so far as the zionist enterprise as presently conceived is concerned the demographics don't look good.

It's not dark yet but it's getting there so best not hang about.


Wed, 09/15/2010 - 15:53

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What is this "Greater Israel" you speak of? It's not a term I'm familiar with.

I Googled the term and saw lots of pro-Palestinian propaganda, but also this:

So what's your interpretation?


Wed, 09/15/2010 - 17:24

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Well I am just a humble Irish bogman. I merely refer to Israel proper and what the world commonly refers to as The West Bank. I am not referring to any grandiose conspiracy theories,and nor do I have any such theories of my own.

Israel either does a deal with reference to this area or it formalises its control over it.

Israel either does a deal or it doesn't. And we are grown ups, we perfectly well know that there will be no deal that doesn't include Palestinian sovereignty over East Jerusalem and doesn't encompass the vast bulk of the land outside of the pre 1967 borders with minor land swaps blah blah blah within the state of Palestine.

Now this may well mean there never well be a deal. So be it.The outcome can only be Israel's formal or at least de facto annexation of the whole of the land. The issue will then be civil and political rights within this larger Israel ( if you prefer this expression ).The world will not tolerate it being any kind of apartheid state.

Now within this state will be several million Arabs and a very significant number of Jews whose Zionism is simply grounded in the wish to live in peace and safety on the land that , as Jews , they have a particular affinity for. They aren't obsessed with the idea of living in a JEWISH STATE and won;t be obsessed with the Jewish character of the STATE.They feel no real need for any political expression of Zionism.The growing numbers and the age profile of such Jews is the real DEMOGHRAPHIC TIME BOMB. Netanyahu perfectly well understands this.Zionism or it's political expression will be finished.

So wish for all of the land, take all of the land. I am merely suggesting you perhaps ought to be careful what you wish for.

In other words


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