Great news on school security

http://www.thejc.com/blogpost/another-outrage-jihad-jenny

Clegg's words are hollow as long as Jihad Jenny remains in the Party.

Matthew - I note that you have been deleting your threads, presumably because I and others post critical remarks there.

I thought the LibDems were "free speech" mavens?

I noticed that the JC website had already run a news story about Nick Clegg's Chanucah message, with the link to the video, so there had actually never been any need for me to put it up here on my blog - so I took it down. That is the only thread that I have deleted.

great news? - As Michael Gove says it's a tragedy that Jewish Schools in the UK have to have security on the scale that they do. Here in Israel we also have to have security but that goes with the territory it shouldn't be the case though in the UK which the last time I looked wasn't surrounded by neighbours intent on its destruction.

Precisely. Clegg is putting the cart before the horse. If Jihad Jennny and other notable LibDems did not fan the flames of antisemitism, maybe there would be no need for Jewish schools to be protected like Fort Knox!

It is great news that the Government has acted to deal with the problem. It is terrible news that there is a problem to be dealt with in the first place. I completely agree that our schools should not need such security, but sadly they do, because of the threat to the Anglo-Jewish community from terrorists and other extremists.

Surely, Advi3er, it goes with the occupied territories (he says, running and ducking at the same time).

Don't you think you might be exaggerating ever so slightly, Jonathan? Fort Knox? With armed troops and several armoured brigades?

joemillis, Jewish schools are the only schools in the UK which require bombproofing on their windows. It is a national disgrace and you should say so. Also, your inference that Israeli schools need security is because of "occupied" territories is historically inaccurate (many Israeli schools were targeted by Arab terrorists before 1967) - but also acts as a "justification" for such despicable acts.

Matthew Harris, I simply cannot understand your commitment to the LibDems. Surely you must agree that Jenny Tonge's continued presence (and several other vehement anti-Israel haters) is unacceptable?

Matthew, pleaase explain how Clegg's words ("I deeply resent the fact that antisemitism remains a factor in the life of the Anglo-Jewish community") can possibly be believed when at the same time he tolerates Jihad Jenny in your Party:

http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=195207

Amber apart from noting that I imply while you may infer, it was a joke for god's sake.

Matthew, there is no excuse for deleting threads with comments below. I and others spend time commenting and those comments are now lost.

It is pure selfishness on your part. Either that or it is suppression of free speech - something which (silly me) I thought LibDems prize highly....

It is great news that UK finally understands that Jewish schools need extra protection.
It would be even better if the UK understood that they have been encouraging antisemitism for too long. Especially, as far as LibDems are concerned, it would be fantastic if they understood that Tonge is a disgrace to the country and their party.
How can anyone be so stupid as to believe someone who arsons other's house then poses as a hero putting out the fire?

Politicians lament the rise of anti-Semitism while encouraging it by failing to stand up for Israel in public or even publicly attacking Israel (in the case of Tonge and others). This is a treacherous betrayal of a fellow liberal democracy.

Mr Harris, will the Liberal Democrats be supporting a unilateral declaration of Palestinian independence when they have to make that decision in the near future? Or will they be opposing such a move? If the latter, how will they justify it having failed to make Israel's case to the general public or their party supporters?

How can anyone be so stupid as to believe someone who burns down another's house, then poses as a hero putting out the fire?

Absolutely

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/42340/hague-anger-no-israel-settlement...

Obviously, the UK government's policy doesn't change much.
Same requirements for Israel, no requirement at all for PA.

No doubt that soon, UK will talk about sanctions against Israel and encourage PA by giving it more money.

Matt Pryor makes two good points.

He says: "Politicians lament the rise of anti-Semitism while encouraging it by failing to stand up for Israel in public." But surely, Nick Clegg's speech of 10 November was a precise example of a politician (the Deputy Prime Minister, no less) being willing to make a very positive public speech about Israel? And the speech was seen not just by the pro-Israeli audience at the lunch, but also (online) by Israel's critics and enemies - who have reacted very negatively, as Google makes apparent. So this was a fine example of a political leader doing exactly what Matt Pryor says they will not do - I really do urge you all to watch this speech: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-AZ_pdhBMY

Matt also asks about a possible unilateral declaration of independence by the Palestinians. That is indeed a major potential challenge to everyone involved in Israel advocacy. I hope that the UK Government's response to such a move would be co-ordinated with the Americans and other key allies, including Israel. My task, and that of others, is to ensure that key players are well-informed about the pro-Israeli side of the argument.

Amber asks a fair question about. Amber, I am a liberal philosophically - Isaiah Berlin being my main influence in that respect. The most liberal of Britain's political parties is the Liberal Democrats. I strongly agree with most of the Lib Dems' policies and, in particular, I have a lot of time for Nick Clegg as a party leader.

I essentially became active in the party in 2002. In that period, I discovered that many Liberal Democrats were vocal campaigners for the pro-Palestinian cause. I therefore joined Liberal Democrat Friends of Israel and engaged those pro-Palestinians in debate - because the Lib Dems actually are a democratic party in which we really do have debates.

I think that the party leadership's thinking on Israel has evolved positively in recent times, as evidenced by the Nick Clegg speech that I've already referred to. I think that the likes of Baroness Tonge and Lord Phillips are becoming ever more marginalised. I am very happy with my party's stance on domestic Jewish issues like shechitah (as Nick Clegg said: "on ‘shechita’, the Jewish humane way of slaughtering animals for meat - I have always supported its continuance in this country, and I always will. The Liberal Democrats have never adopted any policy that threatens the right to shechita, and it is my intention that we never shall").

On faith schools, there are many Liberal Democrats who (for sound reasons that have nothing to do with the Jewish community) believe that it is wrong to have state schools that are segregated on faith lines. I, however, believe in parents' right to choose, so I engaged those colleagues in debate at party conference, and we won - the Lib Dems are not opposed to faith schools, because of that debate, in which I spoke up for people's right to choose faith schools.

Similarly, in 2007 I drafted a party conference motion opposing the academic boycott of Israel - the conference passed it overwhelmingly, after a great debate in which Baroness Tonge opposed the motion and was in a tiny minority. Would you rather that I and others like me were not there, speaking in debates and submitting such motions?

So, since I agree with my party on most of its policies, and since I strongly support its leadership, I am happy to be a Liberal Democrat friend of Israel, contributing to the debate with pieces such as this http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-israel-has-no-option-but-to-defend-it..., which I could not write in the same way from the outside. Amber, I would urge you not to believe everything that you hear in the right-wing blogosphere about the Liberal Democrats. Some deliberate lies have been spread, including in viral emails during the General Election (http://www.thejc.com/blogpost/viral-emails-a-lib-dem-responds).

Matthew, is Tonge still a member of the LibDem?

Yes, Jenny Tonge is still a Liberal Democrat peer. Languishing in obscurity on the back benches, having been sacked from the front bench and with the party leadership having strongly distanced itself from her most recent comments. The party has made it clear that she in no way speaks for the Liberal Democrats on issues relating to the Middle East.

Yes, Jenny Tonge is still a Liberal Democrat peer.

Then, come another day.

Would you rather that there were no Liberal Democrat friends of Israel in the party, countering Jenny Tonge's (negligible) influence? Do you think it would be better if anyone who was pro-Israeli left the party?

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/31087/lib-dem-warns-power-jewish-lobby

Is Madeleine Kirk still a member of the LibDems?

http://www.engageonline.org.uk/archives/index.php?id=28

Is Chris Davies still a member of the LibDems?

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/30643/lib-dem-lords-deputy-leader-caus...

Is Lord Wallace still a member of the LibDems?

And on and on ....

I guess Matthew will now do the blog equivalent of Sarah Teather when Sky tried to interview her about the university fee vote ... Whoops, she's a LibDem too!

http://www.thejc.com/blogpost/dont-vote-libdem-if-you-value-israel

Would you rather that there were no Liberal Democrat friends of Israel in the party, countering Jenny Tonge's (negligible) influence?

I dont consider any party that tolerate a Tonge among them as a friend of Israel. Enough is enough.

So which would you prefer: a Lib Dem internal debate including some pro-Israeli voices, or a Lib Dem internal debate without any pro-Israeli voices?

And is it not good news that the Leader of the Liberal Democrats is now saying the sort of things about Israel that Nick Clegg said on 10 November? Surely you don't see that as somehow being bad news?

Jose, there are some Tories who have said far worse things about Israel.

Thanks, Jose, you haven't answered my question. I did not say anything about my party being a friend of Israel. I said: "Would you rather that there were no Liberal Democrat friends of Israel in the party, countering Jenny Tonge's (negligible) influence?". Do you think that the situation would improve or get worse if every Lib Dem like me left the party?

Thanks, Jose, you haven't answered my question. I did not say anything about my party being a friend of Israel

I did. Enough is enough. Come back and pretend when Tonge will be out of LibDem. When the LibDems will understand that antisemitism is not an opinion, I'll believe some members can be friends of Israel.

I think things would be better Matthew if you and other LDFOI members were queueing up at Clegg's door and giving him an ultimatum: "Tonge + Kirk +...+ out or we quit."

You have you done that of course - haven't you?

Jose, there are some Tories who have said far worse things about Israel.

Worse that hatemongering in the Tonge way? Really? Was that just after 1948?

Had we taken the approach suggested by Jonathan, it would have achieved precisely nothing - there is little that can be achieved by giving people loud-mouthed ultimata, which is what Jonathan suggests. If you want to influence people's thinking, you have to work with them and win their trust, and then slowly, calmly move things in the right direction. Anyone can run around shouting and waving their arms in the air, but does it actually achieve anything?

Anyway, I have nothing to add to my previous comments on this thread, so I am signing off with this post.

And for this post or for the next, please remember to come with the good news of the sacking of Tonge from the LibDems.

I knew you had not given Clegg an ultimatum.

When it comes to a choice between being a LibDem and being a Zionist, you will go for the former every time.