Government response on Antisemitism

The proof of the pudding is that LibDem is Tonge's party. And that no one thinks that she must be expelled. The pudding is stinky and disgusting.

William Hague's "succesful visit"? Do you mean the guy who will continue the blattant anti-Israel policy and boasts about it? We have two different notions of what is success.

As for the All-Party things, we should easily agree that the LibDem cannot be specifically blamed or thanked for it, since it is precisely "All-Party".

And protecting Jewish schools after inviting the terrorist supporters to foster attacks is a bit stupid. Better stop the terrorist supporters and hatemongers first, like Tonge.

None of the things I listed is "all-party" - the Inquiry was "all-party"; the response to the Inquiry is from the Coalition Government, and so is not all-party.

I read this very positive piece about William Hague's visit to Israel - http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/40689/hague-offers-israel-hand-friends.... Is someone now telling me that this piece is inaccurate? It quotes a very positive statement from Mr Hague and Avigdor Lieberman - Jose, if Mr Lieberman was wrong to issue such a positive statement about Anglo-Israeli government relations, perhaps you should write and tell him?

You refer to "the blatant anti-Israel policy" of the UK Government. Apart from universal jurisdiction (which is being sorted out), could you please give me some concrete examples of how this "blatant anti-Israel policy" manifests itself in practice?

As for your comments about some members of my party - I've said it before and I'll say it again (I should get repeat fees). I don't judge the Labour Party by the actions of Messrs Corbyn and Livingstone, even though Livingstone is Labour's candidate for Mayor of London. I can criticise the Labour leadership in relation to those two individuals, but such people tell me little about what Labour would be like in government. For that, I can look at the actions of Blair and Brown and conclude that in no way is the Labour Party wholly inimical to the interests of friends of Israel - similarly, what matters now is that Ed Balls has committed Labour to support the Government on universal jurisdiction - in light of that, I really do not much care what Corbyn, Kaufman and Linton have to say about it. Mr Balls has told us what really matters, as he speaks for the party leadership and for the broad mass of his party.

Similarly, I have previously criticised the Conservative Party for its links in the European Parliament - I would still rather that the Conseratives were not linked to Messrs Ziles and Kaminski. But that doesn't lead me to believe that the whole of the Conservative Party stands condemned because of those European links, as I am prepared to see the bigger picture, crucially including the Conservative Party's actual performance in government.

I would say that anyone who is prepared to see the bigger picture in the case of the Conservative and Labour Parties, but not in the case of the Liberal Democrats, is guilty of double standards. And I think that my party's performance in the Coalition Government is evidence of what that bigger picture really looks like.

Oh, and I forgot, earlier, to mention sanctions against Iran among the Coalition Government's achievements: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870339590457602598195045538... But then these are EU sanctions, and some of you reading this would probably rather that the UK always acted in splendid isolation, rather than actually achieving foreign policy goals with our EU partners.

the Inquiry was "all-party"; the response to the Inquiry is from the Coalition Government, and so is not all-party.

Since only the Government can act, this was by necessity. Argument dismissed.

Hague's visit was unnoticed, empty and useless. UK is continuing its anti-Israel policy, as Hague announced later (see my blog). The only progress made was bipartisan anyway.

UK's anti-Israel policy manifests itself in the UNSC votes, in allowing boycott of an allied country (these boycott are considered illegal in France, for example), not ending the trouble racist activists cause to Israeli companies shops, etc.
I don't say LibDem are worse than Labour, only that there is no change.

Then LibDem has a Tonge. Anyone who is as clearly antisemitic should be excluded. Antisemitism should not a valid opinion for a party. When will she be exepelled?

And for the EU sanctions on Iran, as you said, it is EU and does not depend on the party in the governement. You know the foreign policy issues to be largely bipartisan.
Especially those that include a majority of democratic nations against Iranian dictature.
But it is France that took the lead of these sanctions in the EU, along with USA. UK's role has been minor.

Matthew Harris, both Cameron and Clegg are phonies. Neither has any real convictions, so when they speak to their respective "Friends of Israel" groups, they tell them what they want to hear. then cameron goes to Turkey and tells them what they want to hear. Meanwhile, the Lib Dems are loaded with various nutcases and antisemites. Aside from Tonge (and her continued presence in the party is a disgrace), several other Libdems have voiced antisemitic opinions. And the party is viscerally hostile to Israel - Clegg in particular by his past pronouncements.

Your support for them is utterly misguided - unless of course you care more about the Libdems than Israel.

What? The LibDems taking the credit for reform of Universal Jurisdiction?

You are taking the p*ss Matthew.

http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMDetails.aspx?EDMID=40074

Two-thirds of your f***ing Parliamentary Party signed EDM 502 AGAINST reform of Universal Jurisdiction.

I hear the Communist Party of North Korea is looking for a spokesman - maybe you should apply. On second thoughts, stick around. You have single-handedly reduced the LibDems'mpoll rating to 11%, the lowest in years. With any luck, you will reduce it to zero and split the party.

Madeleine Kirk?
Jihad Jenny?
Chris Davies?
Lord Wallace?
Clegg wishing to deny Israel the means to defend itself?
2/3rds of LibDem MPs signing EDM502?

I love the idea of being "single-handedly" responsible for my party's poll ratings.

Jonathan hits the nail on the head. He cites a past EDM as evidence of what the Lib Dems are likely to do as part of a Coalition Government - but the evidence turns out to be flawed, as Lib Dem MPs voted on 13 December in favour of the relevent legislation, to clarify the law on universal jurisdiction. And Nick Clegg has come out strongly in favour of it - come on, guys, admit it, before the General Election you were predicting that the Lib Dems would stop any Coalition Government from doing exactly what it is now doing on universal jurisdiction. And you've been proven wrong.

Just as you were wrong about what the Lib Dems all believe about faith schools, what Lib Dem leaders would say about Israel when in office as ministers - the anti-Lib Dem doom-mongers were wrong about it all. Of course, none of you will ever have the grace to admit it.

Jose refers to William Hague as "the guy who will continue the blattant anti-Israel policy and boasts about it". That implies Israel's policy overall is entirely anti-Israel and that is nonsense, as is the outre suggestion that the Foreign Secretary "boasts about it" - when did that happen?!

On Iran, the UK has been at the forefront of sanctions: http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/about-us/what-we-do/services-we-deliver/export-...

"before the General Election you were predicting that the Lib Dems would stop any Coalition Government from doing exactly what it is now doing on universal jurisdiction"

Please post the URL of someone saying this. I would not have said it. I would have said that in a coalition with the Conservatives, the LDs would have supported it in the Commons, because once they signed the Coalition agreement, they would need to toe the Cameron line. Which is what is happening.

Labour would never have legislated the change, whatever Balls says now. The evidence is that they failed to legislate it when in power. Jack Straw blocked it.

Please assure us that the LDs in the Lords (eg Wallace and Jihad Jenny) will support the change to UJ.

What utter drivel from Matthew, who obviously is looking for advancement in the disgusting LibDems who are neither liberal nor democractic.
Both Cameron and his bald lapdog foamed at the mouth and screeched the usual lies about Gaza when Israel dared to defend itself.
Clegg won't remove the whip from his rabid Jew-haters - and his party is full of them.

Matthew, what's your take on Oldham East by-election?

Are the Conservatives going to vote for Elwyn Watkins, in the interests of the Coalition?

In a constituency which is 9% Muslim, will Watkins denounce MPAC "targetting" of MPs who stand up for Israel?

https://richardmillett.wordpress.com/tag/elwyn-watkins/

I like Richard Millett. Unlike some people, he expresses himself with courtesy and moderation when he disagrees with another person's opinion. Anyway, yes, I'm sure that lots of Conservative voters will vote tactically for the Liberal Democrats to beat Labour in Oldham East and Saddleworth, given that the Conservatives came third in the seat at the General Election.

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/41036/the-jc-and-phil-woolas-affair

Jonathan, you wrote this piece about your nightmare scenario of what might happen if the Lib Dems entered a coalition: http://cifwatch.com/2010/05/01/the-nightmare-shidduch/ And none of these terrible things have happened - on the contrary, the Coalition Government has been excellent on many issues of Jewish communal concern. So your doom-mongering was misplaced!

Matthew, I love your optimism re:Oldham East and Saddleworth, but it ain't gonna happen. The LibDems are so far down the road to oblivion that even tactical voting can't save them. Expect to lose the deposit in Oldham etc.

Anyway, Matthew, now that your lot are in government, how about sorting out BAA and other companies which don't seem able to cope with about a foot of snow. My family is waiting to go to Israel. Sitting on the suitcases, like.

Joe Millis
I am also waiting on suitcases to go to Israel. It is slightly unreasonable to blame any government for the weather.
Returning to the main thrust of the post, it is true to say that there is a consensus in this country that all the major parties oppose antisemitism and are willing to take action to do so.
It is also very important to remember that antisemitism is also a matter of degree, by which I mean there are some who see anti-semites under every bed in an almost McCarthyist way. If you compare the antisemitism that existed in the last century in the generation of our parents and grandparents with what is seen today in Western Europe there is a huge qualitative difference.
Some years ago, Arik Sharon was forced to apologise to Ex President Chirac for making the statement that the Jews of France should all emigrate to Israel because they were not safe in France. Chirac forcibly informed him that to the contrary Jews in France were very safe and Sharon had to eat humble pie. By the same token we should maintain some sort of balance and remember that times have changed.

Matthew

As you well know (you went to Oxford I think so you must have something inside your head) my article "The Nightmare Shidduch" was about the commonalities between the LibDems and The Guardian. It had nothing to do with what might happen if the LDs went into a coalition. I was hoping for an outright Conservative win at that stage.

Try again - please cite a link to support your contention that "before the General Election you were predicting that the Lib Dems would stop any Coalition Government from doing exactly what it is now doing on universal jurisdiction"

Yehuda, I am not blaming the government for the weather. But since we have known for several days that this weather was coming, dontcha think certain companies, such as BAA, might been a little better prepared? Perhaps this government can take the operators of BAA licence away. Give it back to a British company.

It is also very important to remember that antisemitism is also a matter of degree

It is mainly a matter of numbers. And the situation is very bad. Worse in fact than in Europe at the time of the Dreyfus affair. Antisemitism in France then was nothing compared to antisemitism in the Muslim world.

I understand the reason: being militarily humiliated at each war they sought with such a microscopic country is very frustrating. They need something to explain their defeat: the Jews control the world, the Jews are stronger than the USA...
In other word, spread antisemitic canards.

The situation is worse now in Europe than in Dreyfus's times? When was the last anti-Jewish European pogrom? Expulsion of Jews from a European state? Jews being prevented from living where they want in Europe, or working in whatever field they choose? Or studying whatever at university? Or prevented from achieving political office? All these were around in Dreyfus's time. Not today.
Let's not go overboard, because if it really does happen who will believe us?

The situation is worse now in Europe than in Dreyfus's times?

Damn Millis, did you have a brain exam recently? "IN THE MUSLIM WORLD" where there is about 1,000,000,000 antisemites on the loose.

"it is true to say that there is a consensus in this country that all the major parties oppose antisemitism"

Well, no, there isn't. It's well known that the LibDems are soft on antisemitism and are soft on the causes of antisemitism. Mind you, some of them are adamant that Jews are the cause of antisemitism.

But perhaps you don't regard the LibDems as a major party but as a joke, and who can blame you for that.

"there are some who see anti-semites under every bed in an almost McCarthyist way"

Sure, those poor antisemites are being hunted mercilessly day and night.

From which European country exactly were Jews being expelled at the time of Dreyfus?

The situation in Britain now is worse than it's been for a century and a half. A baying mob can march down Park Lane with a banner saying 'Kill the Jews', and nobody gets prosecuted. Antisemitism is preached daily in mosques the length and breadth of the country, and nothing happens. Ditto in Islamist schools. Antisemites are embraced publicly by a shitty little London mayor. But some people - yes, you - choose to hide their face behind their hands and mumble: "You can't see me, you can't see me, you don't exist".

Dear me, Jose

Worse in fact than in Europe at the time of the Dreyfus affair.

There was me thinking you were comparing like with like. Oh well, perhaps next time you will endeavour to be a little clearer.

Yoni1, worse than it's been for a century and half? Worse than Cable Street? Worse than Sydney Street? Are Jews barred from universities, certain professions, government posts, political parties, parliament, gentlemen's clubs, women's clubs, golf clubs? All that was true in the past 150 years, but not now. God help us if there is real anti-Semitism here. No one will believe us with all this exaggerating going on.

Yoni1, at the time of Dreyfus Jews were being forced out of Poland and Russia.

Except, Yehuda, the Jews in France aren't safe.

There was me thinking you were comparing like with like. Oh well, perhaps next time you will endeavour to be a little clearer.

Well no, and that would be evident with anyone with a brain in working order. But maybe you prefer reading one sentence and jump to (wrong) conclusions, rather than reading two and get all the details needed for comprehension?

I wonder if that is really a quality for a journalist...

Are Jews barred from universities, certain professions, government posts, political parties, parliament, gentlemen's clubs, women's clubs, golf clubs?

Try to be a Jew in Yemem, I Syria, in Lebanon, in Gaza, in Judea Samaria, in Jordan (yes, even Jordan).

All these countries where the antisemitic bunch find nothing to criticise about.

Yoni1, at the time of Dreyfus Jews were being forced out of Poland and Russia.

The good thing is that there is now few Muslim countries from where the Jews can be driven out. Does that prove that the situation is better, or just that the ethnic cleansing is complete?

Tell us about the Jewish community in Pakistan, Indonesia, Afghanistan, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Gaza, Egypt, Lybia, etc.

It seems to have escaped Millis' notice that every building where Jewish activities take place now has heavy round-the-clock security. That was not the case in earlier years.

Unlike previously, antisemitism is not state-sponsored. But try being openly Zionist at the BBC, the Foreign Office or any number of other organisations.

Your career will not go very far.

http://www.thejc.com/blogpost/lord-phillips-america-grip-well-organised-...

Try being a Zionist at some law firms.

Matthew, you did not respond. Again:

"Please cite a link to support your contention that "before the General Election you were predicting that the Lib Dems would stop any Coalition Government from doing exactly what it is now doing on universal jurisdiction" "

I see that some idiot is awarding me minus points for stating simple documented facts about Britain today.

I see that some idiot is awarding me minus points for stating simple documented facts about Britain today.

I see that some idiot is awarding me minus points for stating simple documented facts about Britain today.

Corrected that for you Yoni.

And it seems to escaped Hoffman's notice that I didn't say there wasn't anti-Semitism in Britain today, just that it isn't as bad as it was 150 years ago, when there were no laws protecting Jews or as bad as some scare- and hate-mongers would hope.

Thank you, Matt.

So Millis, why are you still ducking the points about the need for tight security at all Jewish organisations, like the idiot and coward you are?

Yoni1, while you cowardly hide behind a pseudonym to spew your hatred, I really feel no need to answer you. However, I didn't duck any points. I said there was anti-semitism, but nowhere near as bad as 150 years ago and nowhere as bad as the hate- and fear-mongers on all sides would hope we assume it is.
I was at a shiva call at the weekend. There were a number of Jewish students there from unis all over the UK -- UCL, LSE, Leeds, Bristol, Manc, York, Durham, Oxford and the other place -- all of them active in Jsocs and in Israel-related stuff and apart from the LSE person, none thought that anti-Semitism was a problem on campus. Seems there's a lot of mud-stirring going on.
Someone will now give this a negative mark

"none thought that anti-Semitism was a problem on campus"

sure and the Pope is Jewish

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/42703/full-extent-lse-atwan-fury-final...

silly man, Millis

Please note, Hoffman, that I wrote "apart from the LSE person".

Joe, you pathetic idiot: if you want to see who is slinging mud, just look in the mirror. Yoni is my actual name.

There is serious antisemitic intimidation going on at many universities, incl. City, Queen Mary and others, and of course LSE. Let's not even start on SOAS, which should start calling itself Julius Streicher College. If you don't know this, you are ignorant. If you do, you are a liar.

So, according to Millis, no need to protect Jewish sites. This is only scaremongering.
How stupid the government is to spend all that money protecting Jews who don't need any protection!

Millis you are a ridiculous fool

http://www.thejc.com/blogpost/attack-israel-deputy-ambassador-manchester...

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/42585/chief-rabbi-speaks-campus-extrem...

Every week there is an antisemitic outrage at a UK university

Every week there is an antisemitic outrage at a UK university

Anti-Zionist, Jonathan, anti-zionist. Please train by always repeating "zionist", instead of "Jew" or "semite". And then, you will see that "antisemitism" will disappear, at least in the papers. What will it change in the facts? Nothing! What a strange question you ask!

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