Good news for pretzel lovers


By telegramsam
October 12, 2010
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According to this report in Maariv (and sorry it's in Hebrew, there isn't a translation yet), Bagel Bagel is to leave the Barkan industrial park in the occupied territories and move into Israel proper.

The move comes after Unilever Israel bought out the remaining 49 per cent of shares that were held by the family which founded the company. Now we can all eat proper pretzels and help an Israeli company without sullying our conscience.

COMMENTS

happygoldfish

Tue, 10/12/2010 - 12:58

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3 points

telegramsam, 90% of the workers in barkan industrial park are palestinian arabs

see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barkan (though the figure must be considered unreliable, since the sourcing appears to be circular ) …

Of the 5,000 workers, 90% are Palestinian Arabs.

do you think this move to israel will help the palestinian economy?

btw, although israeli settlements on the west bank may be illegal, there's nothing illegal about israeli businesses on the west bank

only transfer of population is prohibited by the fourth geneva convention, not transfer of finance etc

the occupying power has a perfect right (and possibly a duty) to help the economy by investing in the occupied territory

and these west bank industrial parks certainly employ large numbers of palestinians at very much higher wages than they would otherwise have

since these businesses aren't illegal, aren't the palestinian leaders and their supporters simply repeating the decades-old trick of sacrificing the prosperity of ordinary palestinians for political effect?


telegramsam

Tue, 10/12/2010 - 13:15

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-3 points

I wouldn't rely on Wikipedia as a source, HG. And anyway, I am sure the Palestinians are willing to have a few economic privations if it means seeing the back of the occupiers. It's a price they have said they are willing to pay.


Jon_i_Cohen

Tue, 10/12/2010 - 13:19

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0 points

What is that expression?
Oh yes!
"OWN GOAL!


mattpryor

Tue, 10/12/2010 - 13:30

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0 points

Telegramsam while their bellicose political leaders and their useful idiots around the world (like you) may cheer this on, I'm sure the 4,500 Palestinian Arabs who have now lost their livelihood are somewhat less enthusiastic.

How can you support this?


mattpryor

Tue, 10/12/2010 - 13:35

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2 points

To me this just proves that you care more about politics than about people, and more about your cause than the people whose rights it purports to represent.

What a disgrace, and what a blow for peaceful coexistence.


happygoldfish

Tue, 10/12/2010 - 13:40

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2 points

telegramsam, i hope and expect that a future palestinian state will have a thriving economy

but it is unrealistic to expect that it will not have a substantial proportion of israeli investment

so what is the objection to that investment starting now?

telegramsam: … I am sure the Palestinians are willing to have a few economic privations if it means seeing the back of the occupiers. It's a price they have said they are willing to pay.

"a few economic privations"?

they've had 62 years of economic privations, both under jordanian and israeli occupation, and every year their leaders and people like you convince themselves that that's what ordinary palestinians want!

as matt says …

mattpryor: … this just proves that you care more about politics than about people, and more about your cause than the people whose rights it purports to represent.

telegramsam: I wouldn't rely on Wikipedia as a source, HG.

that's what i said, isn't it?


telegramsam

Tue, 10/12/2010 - 13:40

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-2 points

Surely, matt and Jon it is up to the Palestinians themselves to determine how to deal with Israeli industry on their land. And just like the Israelis built their economies, the palestinians can decide how they can build theirs.


mattpryor

Tue, 10/12/2010 - 13:52

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1 point

Yeah, you keep telling yourself that telegramsam.

Fool.


telegramsam

Tue, 10/12/2010 - 13:53

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-2 points

Just as Israelis suffered privations for their independence, don't you think the Palestinians can do the same if it means getting rid of the occupation?


Jon_i_Cohen

Tue, 10/12/2010 - 13:56

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1 point

If you want examples of how Palestinians deal with vacated Israeli industry; - take a look at Gaza !

Israel pulled out in 2005 what do the Palestinans do?

TRASH THE PLACE !


amber

Tue, 10/12/2010 - 18:25

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1 point

telegramsam says he's sure a few palestinians don't mind a few privations..well, that's very generous of you, telegramsam. By the way, how much do you earn?

They went to work there, didn't they? No-one made them. THEY obviously wanted to work there, even if you didn't want them to.

Unbelievable arrogance.


stephenb

Tue, 10/12/2010 - 19:51

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0 points

As I have opined on other occasions happy is a most disengeneous lil mermaid. A future palestinian state will determine its own economic policies.There may be substantial Israeli investment but since Israel is more dependant on welfare handouts from overseas than wagga wagga land I cant see why this should be necessarily so.

And even if this is so there is no reason why they should start now with investment forced upon them at the point of a gun


happygoldfish

Tue, 10/12/2010 - 20:34

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1 point

stephenb, israel has for some years received only military aid …

its non-military "handouts" are zero

stephenb: … Israel is more dependant on welfare handouts from overseas …

israel supplies substantial aid (some financial, some advisory) to developing countries … why should the west bank or gaza be any different?

when palestine has its independence, israel will have two reasons for investing there …
i] israel helps developing countries
ii] it's in both sides' financial interests

stephenb, you're not facing reality if you think that a thriving independent palestine will not want a substantial proportion of israeli investment

do you seriously think that the other arab countries will still help them once they're independent?

oh and btw …

stephenb: … than wagga wagga land …

not only pointless, but, if you're pronouncing "wagga" the way i expect, isn't that offensive to african countries, and racist?

stephenb:
there is no reason why they should start now with investment forced upon them at the point of a gun

no palestinian is forced to work there, at gunpoint or otherwise

and the barkan industrial park is, i believe, built on previously unwanted desert

ordinary palestinians look to israel for investment, not the arab countries


amber

Tue, 10/12/2010 - 22:08

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1 point

stephenb, Israel receives no welfare handouts from overseas. However, the Palestinians receive more aid per capita than any other people on earth, including sub-Saharan Africa, where the need is much greater.

But then most of your ignorant comments about Israel are fuelled by visceral and irrational hatred, so I guess we shouldn't expect accuracy from you.


amber

Tue, 10/12/2010 - 22:09

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1 point

It is surely the greatest irony that the people who are paying the price for such a move are Palestinians - Israelis will now be employed in their place. And the haters applaud.


stephenb

Wed, 10/13/2010 - 08:54

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0 points

oh the disingenuity

Imagine if the UK didnt have to meet its own defence budgett. The money that would be diverted elsewhere

and happy, ordinary palestinians look to Israel to get the freaking hell out.,

of course they accept the work and money. Israel controls everything and controls that everything at the point of a gun.Who wouldnt do what ever to feed their kids.

The investment in a Palestinian state, if it came to be ( which it wont )will come from where it always comes from, The US , Europe and the far East.

And please, please not the " was otherwise an unwanted wasteland ..." drivel , the bullchit of colonialists since time immemorial.


stephenb

Wed, 10/13/2010 - 09:53

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0 points

By 1995 the Israeli take per capita of population of foreign aid had added up to $10,775.

The take per capita over the preceding half century in sub saharan africa was $43, and in latin america $50

Israel currently receives a little short of $4 billion dollars annually and we wont mention the other $2 billion worth of loan guarantees.

That is equivalent to the UK being given , gratis ,$40 billion a year. We wouldnt be talking about deficits and cuts this morning would we ?


stephenb

Wed, 10/13/2010 - 09:57

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0 points

if you are pronouncing wagga wagga as i expect isent that offensive to african countries and racist /

oh for goodness sake grow up or failing that get some therapy for your all consuming obseesion with race


amber

Wed, 10/13/2010 - 10:15

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0 points

Uh, stephenb. you admit it is for defence spending, and not welfare. Well, why bother being accurate?

Almost all the3 billion dollars in defence aid gets channelled back to US companies. In effect, the US is subsidizing its own arms manufacturers, whilst helping an essential ally - an ally which provides vital intelligence to the US. Egypt receives 2 billion in aid, and gives the US zero in return. The US also gives billions in aid to countries which actively hate it.

So what's your point? The Palestinians receive more aid than any other people on earth - despite the need not being nearly as great.


amber

Wed, 10/13/2010 - 10:16

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0 points

And the source for your figures is what?


stephenb

Wed, 10/13/2010 - 11:26

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0 points

oh yeah you reminded me....and the two next largest recipients of Us aid are Egypt and Jordan presumably as a reward for " making peace " because as you say the US gets nothing out of it , ie its all for Israels benefit. Shall we add these amounts to the welfare handouts Israel gets directly ?


telegramsam

Wed, 10/13/2010 - 11:31

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0 points

Stephen, lay off the Israel gets US money thing. The grants and loans account for barely 2 per cent of Israel's GDP. True, this does mean that Israel can shift some of its budget to wasteful projects in the occupied territories, but eventually that will stop, as will, hopefully, the US aid. Israel doesn't actually need it and would be better off without it as it could develop an independent fiscal policy.


amber

Wed, 10/13/2010 - 11:37

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0 points

stephenb, you are hilarious. You blame Israel fro Jordan and Egypt getting aid as well. Whilst you ignore what the Us receives from Israel. Well, might make it look like a 2 way street - and we couldn't have that, could we?

And your sources?


stephenb

Wed, 10/13/2010 - 11:42

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-1 points

well when is a need a need ? A four billion freebie injection into a small economy isent peanuts does it not work out at something like 500 a head ?( my maths isent brilliant )Thats quite a living standards boost. And isent the point about over seas aid a wish to help out the very poorest countries in the world ? And like I say if the US gave us 40 billion a year our troubles would be over wouldnt they ? I mean the present crisis in the Uk economy is in consequence of a much less than 2% contraction in the economy.

And if it doesnt need it why does it keep begging for it ? And why does it keep begging and blackmailing Germany to giving it freebie warships ?


telegramsam

Wed, 10/13/2010 - 12:08

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1 point

Actually, StephenB, the German-made Dolphin submarines are paid for. Blackmail is such a horrible word. There are so many good reasons to criticise Israeli policy towards its neighbours and its own non-Jewish citizens (discrimination, loyalty laws, cue faux American accent à la Law and Order: "In the Israeli criminal justice system, there are two separate but unequal categories of video clips posted online: those that the police investigate - when Israeli citizens are the victims; and those that the police ignore - when Palestinian civilians are the victims. These are their stories…",) why bother with this one?


amber

Wed, 10/13/2010 - 12:16

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1 point

stephenb says Israel blackmails Germany - the battlecry of every Jew hater and neo-Nazi scumbag.

This is NOT ACCEPTABLE. JC moderators, why is this being tolerated?


amber

Wed, 10/13/2010 - 12:18

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0 points

Another nice comment from stephenb -

"oh dear jonathan and there was me thinking the jews were a humorous people
maybe the idolatrous worship of The State of Israel killed all that along with a great many other good things
time for someone to come along and turn over some more tables in some more temples maybe ?
"

There you go - the Jews, according to stephenb, need Jesus to turn over some tables.

Is this acceptable?

His comment about Jews encouraging stereotypes about themselves appears to have been deleted.


mattpryor

Wed, 10/13/2010 - 12:55

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0 points

Since StephenB is neither Israeli or American I don't see what the hell's it got to do with him.

Perhaps people would be better off concerning themselves with the problems in their own countries' finances before worrying about others.


telegramsam

Wed, 10/13/2010 - 13:12

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0 points

Errr...Matt, just to clarify, are you either Israeli or American?


mattpryor

Wed, 10/13/2010 - 13:13

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0 points

Nope.

I'm not the one going onto British Jewish message boards complaining about another country's financial arrangements am I?


amber

Wed, 10/13/2010 - 13:21

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1 point

stephenb's comment that Israel blackmails Germany (for money) is simply disgusting antisemitism. It's what every German neo-Nazi says.

This is intolerable.


telegramsam

Wed, 10/13/2010 - 13:21

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0 points

But you are, matt, coming on to a British message board and expressing an opinion about another country, in which you do not live, ergo you are the same as StephenB, me, Jonathan H, Yvetta, Amber, Uncle Tom Cobley and all.


amber

Wed, 10/13/2010 - 13:26

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0 points

telegramsam - relevant as ever.

So stephenb's comments about Israel blackmailing Germany for money just don't register with you?


telegramsam

Wed, 10/13/2010 - 13:29

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0 points

I refer you, Amber, to the comment I made at 12:08, long before any of you woke up to the blackmail claim. look before you leap, even if it is the only exercise you get.


mattpryor

Wed, 10/13/2010 - 13:38

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1 point

telegramsam you support boycotts of Israeli businesses. You are as bad as stephenB.


telegramsam

Wed, 10/13/2010 - 13:45

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-1 points

Actually, matt I boycott settlements, because they are detrimental to israel's future. It's tough love.


Jonathan Hoffman

Wed, 10/13/2010 - 13:53

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2 points

Great to see the EDO protest today in Brighton attracting more police than protestors ....


stephenb

Wed, 10/13/2010 - 14:36

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0 points

read your post of my post amber cant see the word jesus anywhere ? an apology due perhaps ?


telegramsam

Wed, 10/13/2010 - 14:40

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1 point

Jonathan, ahem…how many join your Ahava demos? More than the police presence? Fewer? What's that, Skippy? A boomerang is flying this way?


stephenb

Wed, 10/13/2010 - 15:36

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0 points

jonathan every wednesday for 6 years....sexyyyy

sam who mentioned Dolphin submarines.

amber ill accept a sorta kinda apology you dont have to get on your knees


stephenb

Wed, 10/13/2010 - 15:37

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0 points

honey


telegramsam

Wed, 10/13/2010 - 15:40

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0 points

I did Stephen, they are the only naval vessels Israel is seeking to buy from Germany.


amber

Wed, 10/13/2010 - 19:13

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0 points

stephenb - if you weren't referring to Jesus (which you and I know you were), to whom were you referring?

You are a racist who should not be on these blogs. Your recent comments about Israel blackmailing Germany comes straight from the German neo-Nazis.

JC - why is ths man here?


stephenb

Wed, 10/13/2010 - 20:25

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0 points

The nation of beggars....

"Germany and Israel are intensifying negotiations a billion Euro naval procurement package. The ships , stretched versions of the Meko A-100 Isreali industry sources say depends on significent German funding "

Amber honey jesus has been dead for over 2000 years how could he turn over any tables in any temples ?


telegramsam

Wed, 10/13/2010 - 20:35

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The nation of beggars? Bit nasty that, StevieB.
And those negotiations are over since I think the Israelis felt they were better off building their own ships.


Anonymous

Wed, 10/13/2010 - 20:44

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0 points

This comment by stephenb has been moderated


telegramsam

Wed, 10/13/2010 - 20:53

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0 points

Now that was anti-Semitic, StephenB


telegramsam

Wed, 10/13/2010 - 20:53

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0 points

So as they say in Liverpool: "Do one"


Jonathan Hoffman

Wed, 10/13/2010 - 21:02

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1 point

Can I suggest to the pro-Israel bloggers that until antisemites are banned, we do not post below the line, only above the line?

Then the antisemites and haters can only talk to themselves - and Jewbaiting is no fun if there are no suitable Jews around to bait.


telegramsam

Wed, 10/13/2010 - 21:17

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0 points

Jonathan, is that a threat or a promise?

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