Full PR? No Thanks.


By Jonathan Hoffman
May 9, 2010
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After the inconclusive election, a live issue in the UK is Proportional Representation (PR). The LibDems are pushing hard for concessions from the Conservatives as a condition for supporting them in a new government. Gordon Brown of Labour - who constitutionally remains Prime Minister until David Cameron goes to the Queen to tell her he can form a government - has reportedly offered the LibDems immediate legislation to introduce PR.

The first point to appreciate about PR is that there are many different forms of it, from the least radical to the most radical. The least radical is AV - Alternative Vote - which is what former Home Secretary Alan Johnson was pushing before the election. This is simply the ranking of choices within a single member constituency. After the votes are counted, if no candidate gets 50%+ of first preference votes, the bottom candidate is eliminated and her/his second preferences redistributed to the other candidates. This process continues until one candidate reaches 50%. In Hampstead and Kilburn for example, where I was on Thursday, this may well have led to the election of the third-placed LibDem rather than the Labour candidate, who won by 42 votes from the Conservative (the winner got 32.8%, the Conservative came second with 32.7% and the LibDem third, 31.2%). It seems fair to assume that most Labour voters, and many Conservative ones, would have put the LibDem in second place.

The most radical form of PR is 'closed party list' where the parties put their candidates in order and the number elected reflects the national vote. For Thursday's election this would give the Conservatives 36.1%, Labour 29% and the LibDems 23% of the seats (assuming votes were the same under PR as under 'first past the post' (FPP) - which of course they would not be). There is always a threshold minimum of votes a party has to achieve before it gets a seat. Often this is 5% - so no small Party would have achieved representation on Thursday's results (though again the votes would not have been the same as under FPP). In Israel it's 2% which explains why most Israelis cannot understand those in the UK who want change.

As the UK political constellation stands at present, radical PR would ensure the Conservatives are in permanent opposition to a leftist Labour/LibDem majority. That's why Gordon Brown had his 'deathbed conversion' to PR and is offering it to the LibDems from his bunker in Downing Street. It's also why David Cameron will go no further than to offer an 'all-party commission' to study the voting system, with possibly the mandate to make recommendations for a referendum.

For the vast majority of Jews in the UK, radical PR would be unwelcome to say the least. Just look at EDM 502, opposing the closing of the Universal Jurisdiction anomaly exploited by the Israel-bashers. Out of the 145 signatories, 139 were from Labour, the LibDems and their small party supporters. And support for the BNP would rise. Those who did not vote for the BNP on Thursday (because under FPP it is a 'wasted vote') would be able to vote for them in the hope that it would drive their support from 1.9% up to 5%. Remember that under radical forms of PR, the BNP won two European Parliament seats and one London Assembly seat (STV for the European elections, d'Hondt for the Assembly).

My prediction? The statesmanlike generalities from Clegg and Cameron will not last. There are huge differences between them - on Europe, on PR, on the timing and method of deficit cutting and on the appropriate size of government. Before the end of the year there will be a second election which will give the Conservatives an overall majority. There are many parallels with 1974 - except that then it was the incumbent, Ted Heath, who formed the short-lived first government, not Harold Wilson, the party leader who won the most seats and went on to win the second election decisively.

COMMENTS

Yvetta

9 May, 2010 - 10:27

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I agree that PR would have a deleterious effect.
I also think a Cameron-Clegg pact would be shortlived - and note that many pundits are predicting another election on 14th October!
AV is the Australian system.
There was an amusing piece in Friday's Sun, conerning the "squatter" presently keeping the "rightful tenant" from Number Ten!


Jonathan Hoffman

9 May, 2010 - 10:36

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http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/09/opinion/09friedman.html?th&emc=th

Good article by Tom Friedman (sent by a friend in Israel). Full PR would open the way to a "Pensioners' Party" and intergenerational strife - as well as many other sectarian interest group parties ...


Jonathan Hoffman

9 May, 2010 - 10:44

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The election result really is an economic disaster for the UK. It would be hard enough to get agreement within a party on the means to square the deficit circle.... let alone between two of the Parties.....


Ben Abuyah

9 May, 2010 - 10:51

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...the BNP won two European Parliament seats and one London Assembly seat (STV for the European elections, d'Hondt for the Assembly)...

I think you'll find that d'Hondt was used both for the European Parliament and for the London Assembly (with an adjustment to allow for some seats being allocated via FPTP). Within the UK, STV was only used for the European elections in Northern Ireland.

STV, which is the system favoured by the Lib Dems, and also used by many other bodies (including the Board of Deputies), would almost certainly not favour the BNP. Assuming constituencies of (say) 6 seats, they'd need to get almost 15% of the vote, either in first preferences or in transfers from other parties (and they'd be unlikely to get transfers except from other fascist parties), in order to get elected.


Jonathan Hoffman

9 May, 2010 - 11:06

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http://www.aboutmyvote.co.uk/how_do_i_vote/voting_systems/european_parli...

@Ben Abuyah

Yes d'Hondt is used for the UK's elections to the European Parliament - thanks for the clarification.

When I wrote that full PR would help the BNP I meant undiluted PR in the sense of a national, closed list - as in Israel. As soon as you introduce a 'regional' division of the seats, you raise the bar for the smaller parties - as you illustrate.


Jonathan Hoffman

9 May, 2010 - 11:17

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http://www.londonelects.org.uk/pdf/factsheets/fs12_hondt.pdf

11 of the London Assembly seats are elected on 'modified' d'Hondt. 'Modified' I think refers to the need to get 5% before a party is included in the allocation. In 2008 the BNP got 5.42% of the London-wide vote which gave them their one seat.

http://www.londonelects.org.uk/results/london_assembly.html


Jonathan Hoffman

9 May, 2010 - 12:13

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The other way in which d'Hondt is "modified" for the London Assembly is that the divisor includes seats already won, both in the 15 FPP seats and in the 10 PR seats:

http://www.londonelects.org.uk/pdf/factsheets/fs12_hondt.pdf

So Parties that have done well in the 14 FPP seats have a handicap when it comes to the 11 PR (modified d'Hondt)seats.


Jonathan Hoffman

9 May, 2010 - 12:27

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PS Anyone who accuses Gordon Brown of "squatting" at 10 Downing Street is talking nonsense. It is his constitutional duty to remain PM until the new government can be formed. Otherwise there would be no government.

Government continues on a 'care and maintenance' basis. What Ministers cannot do is anything which changes policy radically. On the other hand they would need Parliamentary approval for that and since Parliament is in recess - that is anyway out of the question.


Jonathan Hoffman

9 May, 2010 - 13:31

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Note also there is a strong anti-Israel streak in the Greens and some forms of PR will favour them.

http://www.engageonline.org.uk/blog/article.php?id=2244

Remember that the newly elected Green MP for Brighton Kemptown, Caroline Lucas, thinks that Israel was responsible for the Mumbai massacre.


Jonathan Hoffman

9 May, 2010 - 15:28

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Jonathan Hoffman

9 May, 2010 - 16:13

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Stanley Walinets

10 May, 2010 - 11:12

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I'm glad that Jonathan Hoffman warns against PR. Israel is dedicated to PR and we can all see what a terrible situation that system has wrought upon that nation.

A PR-elected Government is in the hands of tiny minorities, who can bring down their Government by withdrawing their support if they don't get their own way. And if, as has happened in Israel, that tiny minority consists of fanatics who insist on the 'righteousness' of what they happen to believe, then presto! -- that nation is obliged to abandon its decent and humanitarian instincts.

We see today the miserable consequences of that PR-pressured abandonment of principles . The consequences are suffered by the Israel's neighbours, who see their land overun by invaders, aka 'settlers', who insist their biblical 'rights' as immigrants justify the removal of people whose land they are determined to take over.

PR? Not a happy solution to the troubles of the world. Thank you, Mr Hoffman.


Jonathan Hoffman

10 May, 2010 - 11:29

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Yawn ... you have not read my article which says that the problem in Israel is the 2% threshold .....

Why am I not surprised...

PR of itself is no "worse" or "better" than FPP.

My point - which seems to have passed you by - is that in current circumstances "For the vast majority of Jews in the UK, radical PR would be unwelcome to say the least."


Stanley Walinets

11 May, 2010 - 04:59

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"My point - which seems to have passed you by - is that in current circumstances "For the vast majority of Jews in the UK, radical PR would be unwelcome to say the least."

And my point Mr Hoffman - which seems to have passed you by - is the vicious and inhuman behaviour by Jews in Israel towards their neighbours, behaviour in which PR has enabled a fanatical minority to entrench the whole nation.

As you say, "most Israelis cannot understand those in the UK who want change." Indeed. All I am saying is that a more democratic system just might enable those Israeli Jews who prefer the humane ideals of our religion to prevail, instead of being "outvoted" by their Mad Mullah minority who currently wield the gross power they do.


Jonathan Hoffman

11 May, 2010 - 06:20

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You are not making sense. In your post of 10/10 12.12 you argue against PR. Now you seem to be saying that FPP is "more democratic".

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