Friends of Israel In Short Demand


By TheBrit
November 2, 2010
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I have been reading with interest many of the blogs on the JC and have grown increasingly dismayed with the level of debate and what appears to be divisive arguments and petty point scoring between many of the people who regularly post comments on these blogs. In my opinion these do not reflect well on either the JC or the Jewish community.

I am not sure that most of the blog postings on the JC represent the views of the majority of British Jews. It is my belief that most British Jews support the state of Israel and would sincerely like to see a peaceful solution with concessions made on both sides. However I have reservations about the route Israel has taken in its treatment of the Arab population within the West Bank and Gaza. The introduction of the Conversion Bill and it subsequent debate are particularly worrying in its potential to split Israel from the more progressive sections of Diaspora that love Israel equally dearly and cherishes the right of return despite not being part of Orthodox Judaism. Israel needs strong allies and support from the Diaspora, and this bill, if passed, will not shore up this support. The bill proposing an oath of allegiance for non-Jewish citizens of Israel can only increase divisions within Israeli society and lead to those who are not Jewish feeling more excluded from Israeli society. Therefore to support Israel without examination of its policies and occasional criticism is impossible for me.

I also feel strongly that the blame, obviously, cannot be laid exclusively at Israel’s door. As a supporter of Israel it frustrates me daily that Israel is continually blamed for various incidents and for being intransigent over the peace process when it is equally apparent that many in the wider Arab world use the conflict and the plight of the Arabs in Gaza and the West Bank as a tool to get Western support and to attack Israel without a thought or care for those living in these locations. I also wish that more people in the US/Europe would take a keener interest in the situation in the Middle East and actually read the facts, the history and look past the often biased and highly emotive mainstream media reports.

These are my personal opinions; however they are not the main point of my post. The point of my post is that I see myself as an average British, Jewish man, I am not deeply observant and when it comes to Israel and the Middle East I am not possessed of an enormous wealth of knowledge however I do try to keep up to date on Israeli news and read a variety of sources to keep me informed. The point of my blog is that I feel that as someone who is part of the mainstream and not from either extreme of the spectrum of views that the JC blogs comment boards are not for me. I read the blogs daily with a mix of horror and fascination at the comments I find on there. It appears that the moment anyone questions the actions of Israel they are deemed to either be anti-Semitic or a self-hating Jew. Others are attacked for writing behind pseudonyms – however can you blame anyone for writing behind a pseudonym on here? If this is the virtual abuse they receive for expressing an opinion, I imagine that most people would be quite worried about printing their actual name on the site.

Don’t get me wrong I am not here to support those who wish to stir up hatred and trouble, all I am asking for is a little more understanding, respect and give and take on the JC blogs so that more people will feel able to contribute to the debate without feeling that it is the preserve of a few extreme people (from both sides) who monopolise the comment boards with their constant sniping and baiting of each other. I prevaricated about posting this because I was worried about the reaction it would receive however I decided that I would rather potentially suffer the comments and insults to get my point across that the average person probably feels excluded from commenting on the JC blogs due to the strength of response many comment engender. Everyone has their views and variety is the spice of life but maybe if people moderate the tone of their own comments and are slightly more respectful of each other I will be able to read and participate in some healthy debates as opposed to feeling like I am reading the written equivalent of a car crash.”

Extremism just leads to more extremism and what Israel needs is some positive PR and support from the diaspora not anti jewish anti zionist or anti anything else.

COMMENTS

telegramsam

2 November, 2010 - 15:54

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You are absolutely right, TheBrit.


Jonathan Hoffman

2 November, 2010 - 16:02

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Yes definitely


Anthony Posner

2 November, 2010 - 16:03

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True Brit,

I think you might be a bit too wishy-washy for this blog. But of course, that is just an initial assessment and you might prove me wrong. Time will perhaps tell.

That does not mean that yo uare not more than welcome to contribute. The more the merrier.

Of course, I don't go along with the self-hating Jew epithet. I tend to call them "self-righteous Jews". A small point, perhaps, but I believe it is important to get the facts rights.


TheBrit

2 November, 2010 - 16:08

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I think there is a thin line between what you call wishy washy, Politically correct and extremism :)


telegramsam

2 November, 2010 - 16:12

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Anthony, I like the self-righteous Jews bit. Obviously they are not self-hating if they do not see Israel as part of the "self".


TheBrit

2 November, 2010 - 16:16

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nosce te ipsum as they say in Latin!!!


telegramsam

2 November, 2010 - 16:22

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Sic transit in gloria mundi. My sick Ford Transit died one glorious Monday.


telegramsam

2 November, 2010 - 16:41

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Stephen, I am taking it at face value and I will endeavour to be polite. Of course, if some resort to being rude and abusive, perhaps the moderators will deal with them properly.


Avraham Reiss

2 November, 2010 - 17:01

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TheBrit,

Welcome! You have as much right as anyone else to blog here. You have expressed your opinions well, giving us an insight into how they have been formulated.

The attacks on those hiding behind pseudonyms began when one of the pseudonym-behind-hiders began attacking Jonathan Hoffman personally, as opposed to attacking his ideas, which would be valid when motivated. The same person had done this before, extensively, under a different name - until he was barred.

There is also a problem of people attacking Israel giving false information, and refusing to retract when this has been proven.

In my school days there was once a superb footballer about whom it was said that his motto was "if you can't get the ball, get the man". This is what anti-Semites are now doing regarding Israel.

Just yesterday I received my ordered copy of Anthony Julius' s monumental book "Trials of the Diaspora - a history of anti-semitism in England". The book contains some 800 pages (it was heavy enough that I took a taxi home!) , and at the very end (I admit I skipped to there) in the book's conclusion, he says [quote] "When reflecting upon the character of contemporary Israel-hatred, then the question of anti-Semitism cannot be avoided" [unquote] and goes on to discuss this until the end of the book.

The JC Editor recently published a detailed policy regarding anti-Israeli comments published in the JC Blogs. It seems that the few anti-Semites that fester this place are laughing all the way to church and mosque!


Jon_i_Cohen

2 November, 2010 - 17:02

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Great to see new bloggers here and I agree with what the "TheBrit" says about poor/weak PR, that is the main problem.
However, as for most of the blog - far too "wishy-washy" for me, you have to have an opinion and take a stand, yes or no, right or wrong - no good sitting on the fence.


stephenb

2 November, 2010 - 17:13

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unless the fence is in just the right place


Jon_i_Cohen

2 November, 2010 - 17:17

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RIGHT being the operative word !


stephenb

2 November, 2010 - 17:34

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jon what is a leftist ?


stephenb

2 November, 2010 - 17:35

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and that was surprisingly sharp of you jon careful dont cut yourself


Avraham Reiss

2 November, 2010 - 18:00

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TheBrit,
you wrote:
"However I have reservations about the route Israel has taken in its treatment of the Arab population within the West Bank and Gaza."

What do you think Israel should/should not have done?

Do you see a difference between Judea and Samaria (ex-Jordanians) and Gaza (ex-Egyptians)?


Anthony Posner

2 November, 2010 - 20:07

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True Brit,

Well, no doubt about it, Av and tsam behaved so badly on the other blog that the headmaster rocked up and actually closed the debate down! Their behaviour seemed even worse than usual, and I have to conclude that they were showing off in front of you.

But although some of the boys at the blog really do hate each other, you shouldn't be scared off. What sort of blog would it would be if there weren't a few scraps in the playgrond? (Of course, sometimes knives/revolvers/AK 47's are used, but isn't that all part of the rough and tumble of a good blog??)


Anthony Posner

2 November, 2010 - 20:16

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True brit,
You write: "I read the blogs daily with a mix of horror and fascination at the comments I find on there."

You shouldn't have written that. It wil only encourage thereally hardened cases to be outrageous. You should edit that sentence out.


Avraham Reiss

2 November, 2010 - 22:14

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TheBrit,
take a look at http://www.thejc.com/blogpost/sein-kartoon-kampf#new to see how a so-called "Jew" uses adolph h. as a characterization of a real Jew.

This is the kind of stuff you were complaining about ...


TheBrit

3 November, 2010 - 13:15

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To be honest I didnt come here to talk about politics as I feel theres enough healthy banter and slander.
I feel most people are not bothered about whether you call some anti something self rightheous or not. Its all pretty boring.
What we need is more positive PR and guess where it all starts on here at home!!

So all you intelectualls out there especially the hoff!!! I have a challenge for you.
Create some positive PR and blogs for the jewish people and Israel and break down walls and barriers not build them higher.

The thing is are you up for a challenge ?


telegramsam

3 November, 2010 - 13:59

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Here's some absolutely fantastic positive PR for Israel. It's about Israel's version of Strictly Come Dancing and the fact that one of the celebs involved is a lesbian newsreader who is dancing with a straight female partner. In a homophobic Middle East, Israel is a beacon of inclusivity and tolerance (except for those in the country who aren't).


telegramsam

3 November, 2010 - 13:59

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Here's some absolutely fantastic positive PR for Israel. It's about Israel's version of Strictly Come Dancing and the fact that one of the celebs involved is a lesbian newsreader who is dancing with a straight female partner. In a homophobic Middle East, Israel is a beacon of inclusivity and tolerance (except for those in the country who aren't).

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