Founder of Methodism: The Jew is a worm


By Joshua18
July 1, 2010
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John Wesley, the founder of Methodism, was a vicious Jew-hater, little different in many ways to Adolf Hitler. Small wonder then that today Methodists embrace anti-Semitism with such fervour.

From "A Concise History of American Antisemitism":

"An early visitor to Georgia was John Wesley, later founder of Methodism, who said of the Jews:

Outcasts from thee, and scattered wide
Blaspheming who they crucified
Unsaved, unpitied, unforgiven
Branded like Cain, they bear their load
Abhorred of men, and cursed of God

Wesley's language grew more violent when he declaimed on the Jewish adherence to the Torah: 'What stupidity, what senselessness must it be for such an unclean, guilty helpless worm as this [the Jew], to dream of seeking acceptance by his own righteousness, of living by the righteousness which is of the law!' "

http://tinyurl.com/22vhyk3

And who reading that can be surprised that "Delegates at the [Methodist] conference in Portsmouth overwhelmingly passed every recommendation of the report, which also included a call to review whether Zionism was compatible with Methodist beliefs"?

Source: Fury as Methodists vote to boycott Israel

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/33594/fury-methodists-vote-boycott-isr...

COMMENTS

mattpryor

Thu, 07/01/2010 - 12:53

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1 point

I don't understand how exposing anti-Semitism leads to comparisons with Hitler.

Perhaps Ben Abuyah would like to discuss his views on this?


Joshua18

Thu, 07/01/2010 - 13:06

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1 point

Some of the other people Ben Abuyah (Abuyah in fact was an infamous Jewish traitor) hates:

Melanie Phillips

http://www.thejc.com/blogpost/the-new-governments-education-policy

Stephen Pollard and Jonathan Hoffman

http://www.thejc.com/blogpost/the-best-reason-vote-lib-dem

I'm delighted to be in such excellent company.


mattpryor

Thu, 07/01/2010 - 13:13

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Aha, thanks for the info Joshua. So our own resident "Ben Abuyah" is another Jew hater and a troll.


Joshua18

Thu, 07/01/2010 - 13:22

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In case you didn't know, here's a little explanation (scroll down to "Numerological associations"):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chai_%28symbol%29

BTW, I noticed on another thread that you referred to yourself as "a gentile". I'm sure I speak on behalf of all decent Jews here when I say that I don't care one jot or tittle that you don't happen to be Jewish. This is not a matter of Jew or Christian but of right and wrong. On the other hand, I realise that it must be extraordinarily difficult to go against the convictions and sentiments of many of your friends and neighbours. For that I thank you most heartily.


Ben Abuyah

Thu, 07/01/2010 - 15:53

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-2 points

I wish I could post here under my own name. However, I work for a prominent Jewish communal organisation and, given the McCarthyism, and the refusal to believe what is going on in the real world, that permeate so much of the British Jewish establishment today, I am unable to do so.

My chosen pseudonym reflects the way that those people who are prepared to express dissenting opinions are treated by some of the more bigoted members of the community.


mattpryor

Thu, 07/01/2010 - 16:04

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1 point

You compare someone to Hitler then complain about being bullied?

I don't believe you. I think you're a liar and a troll. The fact that you continue the charade is frankly disturbing and more than a little bit creepy.


Joshua18

Thu, 07/01/2010 - 16:08

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2 points

You are a liar and a coward.

In actual fact, you put me more in mind of Mordechai Chaim Rumkowski. I sincerely hope you have a similar fate.


amber

Thu, 07/01/2010 - 16:15

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1 point

Ben Abuyah, you are a prime moron.

Don't believe a word you say. You're probably a neo-Nazi.

Now go away.


James Mendelsohn

Fri, 07/02/2010 - 16:26

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Joshua,

The Methodist decision is clearly an antisemitic outrageous, but I think it is simplistic to trace it back to Wesley.

The Almighty God of Love was a hymn written by John;s brother Charles in 1762 and would be considered to have Zionist sentiment. John Wesley included it in his 1780 hymn-book, A Collection of Hymns for the use of the People called Methodists:

Almighty God of love

Set up the attracting sign
And summon whom Thou dost approve
For messengers divine.
From Abraham’s favoured seed
Thy new apostles choose
In isles and continents to spread
The dead-reviving news.

Them snatched out of the flame
Through every nation send
The true Messias to proclaim
The universal Friend.
That all the God unknown
May learn of Jews to adore
And see Thy glory in Thy Son
Till time shall be no more.

O that the chosen band
Might now their brethren bring
And gathered out of every land
Present to Sion’s King.
Of all the ancient race
Not one be left behind
But each impelled by secret grace
His way to Canaan find!

We know it must be done
For God hath spoke the word
All Israel shall their Saviour own
To their first state restored.
Rebuilt by His command
Jerusalem shall rise
Her temple on Moriah stand
Again, and touch the skies.

Send then Thy servants forth
To call the Hebrews home
From west and east, and south, and north
Let all the wanderers come.
Where’er in lands unknown
Thy fugitives remain
Bid every creature help them on
Thy holy mount to gain.

An offering to their God
There let them all be seen
Sprinkled with water and with blood
In soul and body clean.
With Israel’s myriads sealed
Let all the nations meet
And show Thy mystery fulfilled
The family complete.

Of course, this begs the question: how can such sentiments be reconciled with the ones you cited? At a guess, I would say this:

Wesley used the language of “guilty”, “vile”, “helpless” etc of ALL people in his preaching (see http://new.gbgm-umc.org/umhistory/wesley/sermons/5/) – i.e. he wasn’t singling out Jews alone with those words – he would have said them about all men, including (if he was anything like other Christian leaders from that period) himself;

and, while he clearly believed Jews were dispossessed, he did not see this as a permanent state of affairs and saw a bright future for the Jewish nation (again, like other Christian leaders of the period).


happygoldfish

Fri, 07/02/2010 - 21:24

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charles wesley's hymn is not zionist, on the contrary it calls for the complete conversion of jews to christianity!

you are being misled by the words …

"Of all the ancient race
Not one be left behind
But each impelled by secret grace
His way to Canaan find!

Rebuilt by His command
Jerusalem shall rise
…
Send then Thy servants forth
To call the Hebrews home
From west and east, and south, and north
Let all the wanderers come.
Where’er in lands unknown
Thy fugitives remain
Bid every creature help them on
Thy holy mount to gain."

however, he's not saying "let all jews return to zion as their national home", he's saying "let all jews return to zion to worship your son as their saviour and to be baptised and "sealed""

you are failing to see the significance of the words …

The true Messias to proclaim

And see thy glory in thy Son

Present to Sion’s King

All Israel shall their Saviour own

There let them all be seen
Sprinkled with water and with blood

yes, he certainly "saw a bright future for the Jewish nation", but as joyful converts to christianity!

zionist? not!!
(btw, there's an extensive analysis of the hymn (which i confess i haven't read) at http://www.wesley-fellowship.org.uk/Zionist_Hymn.html


jose (not verified)

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 13:33

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Ben Abuyah: Joshua, I'm intrigued by your choice of user name. Is the "18" a reference to the 1st and 8th letters of the alphabet ie "AH" - the initials of the person who seems to provide so much of your inspiration, Adolf Hitler?

Interesting to see that someone, who pretends to work for a prominent Jewish communal organization, is so ignorant of the signification of the number 18 and is ready to associate it with "AH" as a first explanation. While a normally learned Jew would associate that number with Hebrew letters "Het Yud".


Yvetta

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 21:52

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James M, as someone long interested in Christian philosemitism, and appreciating that not all of it had - or has - a conversionist intent (vide Charlotte Elizabeth Tonna, for example) I found your post fascinating food for thought.


Yvetta

Sat, 07/03/2010 - 21:54

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Joshua, surely Wesley is there describing conditions in which Jews found themselves and the disdain in which they were held, rather than necessarily expressing his own enmity and contempt?


Ben Abuyah

Sun, 07/04/2010 - 01:02

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Jose, I don't pretend to work for a prominent Jewish communal organisation - I do work for a prominent Jewish communal organisation.

And yes, I'm fully aware that 18 is the numerical value of chai. However, I've no evidence that Joshua is Jewish (or that you are for that matter). For example, the fact that both of you have posted messages during Shabbat. In those circumstances, he is just as likely to have been referring to AH, as being a closer fit with his politics.

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