Excommunicating Richard Goldstone

If Dershowitz, OJ's saviour, and some Israeli officer protest too much, maybe, then, Goldstone was right.

Not wanting to daven with someone is hardly threatening. Goldstone might not be evil but he is a very naughty boy.

Miriam,
I think that you are extremely confused. And it is you who needs to take a deep breath. Perhaps it will help you to think more clearly?

You write that as far as you are concerned the Goldstone Report is "slander against the state of Israel".

Now assuming that this is a correct assessment of the report, why on earth shouldn't the author of it be deemed to be "a traitor"?

slander: "a false, malicious and damaging spoken statement" (Chambers)

Slandering Goldstone is like shooting the messenger.
What is the problem? Are we supposed to pretend that all is rosy in the garden, that Israel didn't slaughter 1400 people. But that is how Israel has always operated isn't it, essentially by lying from 1948 onwards. You know what I mean;
"We bought the land"
"There are no such people as the Palestinians"
etc.
Goldstone is a hero!

I'm sorry, Miriam -- your tone is slightly more moderate, but you are in fact just adding your voice to this ridiculously defensive and vindictive chorus.

Non of this personal, negative stuff thrown at Richard Goldstone helps Israel one jot.

Goldstone took on a brief that Mary Robinson of Ireland, no friend of Israel, turned down as being too politically motivated.

It was obviously a poisoned chalice and Goldstone, a judge of many years experience must have been able to see this.

That he took the brief, that he dealt with it in the way he did, that he relied on tainted testimony from within Gaza is inexplicable but no less damaging for Israel.

Presumably Goldstone was not forced to take the brief. If we accept that, why should we be concerned that the results of his actions have lead to "personal invective against him becoming intense"?

The man has done wrong and on a global scale. He has maligned the reputation of an entire country. It was not an insignificant act. He has allowed the Arab world to tell yet one more big lie. He has colluded with the greatest enemies of the state to concoct a report that simply does not do justice. Unforgivable in someone whose raison d'etre, is the law.

Why would anyone who cares about the state of Israel take him back into the fold? He has put himself metaphorically, beyond the Pale.

He can't have maligned the reputation of a whole country, city/ca, because the country in question has no reputation to malign. I believe that those who castigate Judge Goldstone do so because, perhaps deep down, they know he's right.

Moshe, so now people who criticise someone who criticises Israel do so because deep down they think he or she is right? Are you being serious?

Maybe Goldstone was wrong? In fact he himself has been stunned by how much his report has been used to criticise Israel when he also found Hamas guilty of war crimes.

And why aren't Britain and the US on trial for war crimes? Why just Israel?

Miriam Shaviv comments on the least significant aspect of the sad Goldstein saga - his own feelings. The man's lies have created grounds for great(er) international opposition to the next, inevitable IDF incursion into Gaza. This further limits the scope of feasible operations in a difficult area - terrorist bases cowardly and cynically set amongst residentual dwellings - in effect affording a layer of protection to the Hamas terrorist leadership.

Shaviv should limit her jottings to subjects of which she is capable of a fuller understanding.
Why is she concerned about the feelings of a man who has justly been called a traitor to his people?

Mr Reiss, if you recall, Yitzhak Rabin (Hy"d) was also called a traitor to his people. Look what happened to him.

Mr Reiss, if you recall, Yitzhak Rabin (Hy"d) was also called a traitor to his people. Look what happened to him.

Mr Reiss, if you recall, Yitzhak Rabin (Hy"d) was also called a traitor to his people. Look what happened to him.

Personal attacks on Richard Goldstone are self-defeating and ultimately discredit the attackers.

There are more than enough factual errors and methodological flaws in his Report that can be tackled; some have already been published in the IDF Update presented to the UN.

If Goldstone has betrayed anything, it isn't Jewry but the objective judicial professionalism that any self-respecting judge should possess.

Moshetzarfati2, that is one of the most stupid comparisons I have ever heard. Rabin was a national figure; Goldstein is a nonentity.

It is also typical of the left, who scream "Rabin!" hysterically whenever they have no solid arguments. They also use Rabin's name to try and shut up opponents. Those days are gone mate, as is the left.

Writing it 3 times as you did, is also more than a little hysterical.

In Hebrew its called 'dancing on his blood'.

The thing is that not only does Judge Goldstone conclude that Israel acts illegally by committing war crimes, illegal sieges etc.
Similar reports have been written by UNWRA, Amnesty International, Save the Children, Oxfam, Human Rights Watch, The International Committee of the Red Cross, The International Courts of Justice, The Swedish Red Cross, etc. The conclusion is always the same. Crimes are reguarly being committed by the state of Israel.

The British government essentially agrees with these reports as it abstained at the UN vote on the Goldstone report. (the best it can do, though one day, one hopes, it will actually follow the moral high ground and vote against Israel)

If Israel was so concerned about its reputation why not let an independent report go ahead?

Why not permit free access to Gaza during the massacre?

Why not permit the international aid convoys to enter Gaza at thier choice and at their leisure?

Is there something to hide?

Shouting hysterical hatred or writing ridiculous statements like 'the Goldstone Report is, as far as I'm concerned, a slander against the IDF and state of Israel', only proves that the truth hurts.

Richard Goldstone has given aid and comfort to the enemy. His outrageous report is cited with glee by them, most recently in trying to intimidate Elton John into cancelling his trip to Israel. Goldstone deserves contempt. I'll put it no more strongly.

It should be stressed that no real judge would conclude on one side of another without having heard the defender. On the other side, Israel could have cooperated with Goldstone. But as they didn't, Goldstone should have turned down the job, knowing he would not be able to reach a conclusion.

Moreover, all witnesses on the Palestinian side are being subject to 'pressure' (meaning threats to their lives) by their own government and have nothing to loose in telling lies, such as those repeated here by the local friends of Hamas government (the first such neo-nazi government democratically elected since 1933).

Now, excommunication of Goldstone was not implied, unless the IDF official was a noted rabbi. Rather, it was like someone saying he would not sit and eat at the same table as Goldstone. That, I understand and approve.

Considering that Goldstone did not hear or consider any of the victims of the Palestinian aggression against Israel, whose messenger is he? That of the Hamas government?
In this case, why should he immune from legitimate criticism, for making heard only one side of the story? As a judge, he should hear both sides or else refuse to take sides. He didn't.

It has to be remembered that Rabin is an Israeli hero and was never called a traitor by any but the stupidest part of the Haredi population.
His tomb in Mount Herzl is ample proof that he is certainly a local hero.

Goldstone has failed his duty as an impartial judge by acting as a prosecutor for the Hamas.

Jose, Rabin (HY"D) was called a traitor by people from the Likud rightwards, not just a stupid part of the Hareidi population. It was in that atmosphere that Yigal Amir was able to shoot him.

zaFarti, are you going on again with that old leftist cry
"Rabin! Rabin! Rabin!"?

I say that you are a Liar!

Name "people from the Likud" specifically, who called Rabin a traitor, giving checkable quotes - or stop babbling hysterically.

Again, I say that you are a liar.

Gold.Sarah:
"If Israel was so concerned about its reputation why not let an independent report go ahead? Why not permit free access to Gaza during the massacre?"

- Could you kindly explain exactly what you mean by 'an independant report'? Can you name a source who could act independantly sans bias aganst Israel?

And why do you talk of a 'massacre ' in Gaza? There was no such thing.

Did you ever relate to the 7,000 shells, bombs and mortars thrown by Hamas at Israeli civilians - I emphasize CIVILIANS ? How exactly did you expect Israel to retaliate to protect its citizens? By appealing to the UN?

And as for the long list of organizations concerning whom you claim "The conclusion is always the same. Crimes are reguarly being committed by the state of Israel" - please list a few sources - we are sick of contentless generalizations.