European Union? Danger!

10 January, 2011 - 15:02

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FOOTNOTE: the two links above tell the story.

Link number 1 is Cameron, keen on Europe: just click to see him.

The second link is Erdogan's Turkey - the national paper on-line - being disingenous about Israel in spite of Panorama'a Mavi Mara filming.

Our anti-semitic poster here will not stop the Zionst lobby as he can see by this footnote & links above.

We're intuitive with a strong, discerninig grapevive regardless.

10 January, 2011 - 23:00

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Turkey must never be allowed to join. On second thoughts, scrap the entire EU experiment altogether.

10 January, 2011 - 23:13

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scrap the EU? yes, and to this end, all or any ideas as a think tank should be shared here as a start.

10 January, 2011 - 23:26

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Vote UKIP. The more people vote for them, the more people will vote for them the next time.

Yehuda Erdman

10 January, 2011 - 23:27

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A bit more time is needed to se which way Turkey is moving, but personally I would not rule out Turkey joining after about 15 years.

10 January, 2011 - 23:31

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what makes you that Yehuda?

10 January, 2011 - 23:35

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Erdman, it is clear which way Turkey is moving. Ataturk's Turkey is now dead - and will never come back. As Mark Steyn points out, this is due to demographics. The Western, secularised Turks are having fewer babies, whilst the more religious, more Islamist, less educated Turks of the eastern rural areas are having lots of babies.

How do you think it will go?

Yehuda Erdman

10 January, 2011 - 23:49

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Amber
That is similar to the demographic crisis facing Israel where the Haredi Jews and the Arab Israelis are having much larger numbers of children than the more highly educated less religious or secular Jews. If Israel/ Palestine is not partitioned soon, there will be an Arab majority west of the river Jordan in less than 15 years. That could spell the end of the Zionist dream.

Kahina

11 January, 2011 - 00:04

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Well the Haredi communities having large families does keep the balance. And probably in the not too distant future, there will be more aliyas coming from Europe. I know there is a big flow from France.

11 January, 2011 - 00:18

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getting out of Europe will involve being open about out enemies: for too long we have minced our words.

11 January, 2011 - 00:29

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Erdman, think about what you just said. No matter where the border lies, there wiull still be the same number of Jews and the same number of Arabs west of the Jordan.

Better the Jews have defensible borders.

jose (not verified)

11 January, 2011 - 05:54

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If Israel/ Palestine is not partitioned soon

What's wrong, Herr-dman? Do you believe Israel and 'Palestine' have merged somewhere in time?
Since there is no 'Palestine' to start with, that would be difficult. Then, if there was, it is not part of Israel and the people living there are thus not Israelis and they are not going to be Israelis anytime soon.

jose (not verified)

11 January, 2011 - 06:04

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And probably in the not too distant future, there will be more aliyas coming from Europe. I know there is a big flow from France.

The aliyas (France is between 2000 to 3000, every year) are not enough to make a change in the balance. All this "natality bomb" crap is based on a hypothesis: that natality will remain constant during decades. Well, one century ago, Jewish and Catholic families of ten to 15 were not rare at all. Where are they today?

Arab countries with their ultra-conservative mentalities will certainly resist a few decades more, so will Indians and the most ultra-haredis. Of course, this will go together with very high poverty, low health and education standards.

Israeli Arabs don't have such large families in average that their 'Palestinian' counterparts, because their income and education standards are higher. In a few decades and with better integration of the ethnic Arab population in Israel, there will be no difference.

jose (not verified)

11 January, 2011 - 06:10

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Turkey will never join the EU. The hurdles are too many and Turkey is presently going the wrong way:
- islamist government with ties to Syria and Iran, and growing racism and intolerance
- military occupation of a EU country (Cyprus)
- non-recognition of the Armenian genocide, the frst of its kind in the century and the main inspiration to the Holocaust
- permanent persecution of Kurdish and Armenian minorities
- military interventions inside the territory of Iraq

All this makes Turkey totally unsuitable for EU. And every day, the clown Erdogan makes it even more so.

http://www.amnesty.org.uk/uploads/documents/doc_20736.pdf

11 January, 2011 - 10:29

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Turkey violates childrens' rights

11 January, 2011 - 12:17

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And once again, some moron doesn't like facts.

mattpryor

11 January, 2011 - 12:46

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The way Erdogan's government is headed it will be booted out of NATO before it joins the EU.

Elections in Turkey are this year as I recall. Should be interesting to see which side of the secular democracy / Islamist line they fall.

11 January, 2011 - 14:15

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Seemingly: secular or no Erdogan is pointedly not loyal to Israel. I have never understood it.

11 January, 2011 - 15:25

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Eh, Stella?

And of course, even more morons are marking me down for stating facts.

Let me guess: they are Jew-hating leftists.

11 January, 2011 - 17:39

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@ Yoni

you wrote "And of course, even more morons are marking me down for stating facts"

I never said moron, don't disagree with you over UKIP - but - where are the "facts" you state or do you mean an opinion?

If it facts then please post a link here for information sharing :)

Cheers.

11 January, 2011 - 21:05

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-3 points

The EU has it's faults but all in all is a force for good yes we know about the beauracratic waste etc

But as well as all the social positives it has been an unseen hand in the dying away of seperatist terrorism

Without British and Irish membership the moves towards peace on the island of Ireland would never have happened

Without Spanish membership the end of the ETA campaign wouldnt have happened and nor would the infant Catalan radical seperatist movement with its potential for seperatist terrorism have fizzled out

Without French membership the radical Breton seperatist movement with its potential for seperatist terrorism would not have fizzled out

The EU makes all this irrelevant.The beauty of the EU lies precisely in its post nation state character. Israel with it's nation state obsessions might well learn from it

Hope non of you are holding your breath

There is a kind of ambiguity. The EU on the face of it is a manifestation of the ugly big. But at the same time it facilitates the beautiful small why should the regions expend energy on anti nation stae sentiments when

11 January, 2011 - 21:14

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I guess what I am trying to say is....the nation state is, historically, a very recent phenomenon a phenomenon that is already yesterdays news. Yet the Jews yell everyone else has their nation state why can't we have ours ?

The only rational response is...why would you want it its yesterdays news ?

11 January, 2011 - 21:57

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I mean what has The State of Israel got to do with eternal Israel ? If you think The State of Israel is eternal you probably think Yonathan is north londons answer to Saul Kripke

11 January, 2011 - 21:58

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armchair, are you educated beyond GCSE level?

11 January, 2011 - 22:06

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Amby I have three philosophy degrees but I do agree that has very little to do with education so the short answer to your question is....no

11 January, 2011 - 22:17

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Stella, do make an effort to actually read the post you are commenting on, eh?
I never said that you called me a moron. I was talking about some other posters here.

11 January, 2011 - 22:23

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ok who called yonathan a moron ? I want names

11 January, 2011 - 22:24

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"The EU makes all this irrelevant.The beauty of the EU lies precisely in its post nation state character. Israel with it's nation state obsessions might well learn from it"

Mad. Quite mad.
The EU is a hotbed of nation states hating each other's guts. It is held together purely by the greed and megalomania of its unelected, utterly corrupt bureaucracy. The more countries join, the more impossible it will be to hold it together. It will collapse under its own weight, as the USSR has, and the nation states making it up will continue to exist long after its demise, which cannot come too soon. The EU contributes nothing - that it's a big fat zero - to the well-being of its defrauded population. All the supposed benefits existed already under the Common Market, and that's ALL we need: commercial agreements, not a fascist supper-state.

As to the utterly deranged and ignorant idea that the nation state is a recent thing: what bollocks. The Jews had a nation state 3000 years ago, so did the Chinese. All the Jews are doing is re-establishing the nation state they had before. Anyone who calls this an 'obsession', and screeches that the Jews don't deserve it, is a disgusting antisemite.

11 January, 2011 - 22:28

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3 philosophy degrees, can't spell, can't punctuate, can't construct a coherent argument, is ignorant about history - and hallucinates that I am Jonathan. Yeah, right. Maybe 3 philosophy degrees from the Mongolia Correspondence University of Hairdressing.

11 January, 2011 - 22:32

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Yonathan that was quite a speech. Who wrote it ?

11 January, 2011 - 22:35

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Not at all the university of pheonix lol @ ' me

11 January, 2011 - 22:53

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the fact that there aren't any jobs for ex-MEPs to take up, the EU gravy train, the clocking on and leaving early, all these things are reasons why they won't disband thier club.

if they were actually disbanding it would be good, but they have not announced that they are disbanding

11 January, 2011 - 22:57

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IS ANY ONE GOING TO DISCUSS WITHOUT ROWING? BTW.