Death at sea

Civil Society has woken up to the facts presented by video evidence proving the occupants on the boat to be armed terrorists. Your propaganda is old hat. Try again.

Akiva is right, your posting is old news.
Every normal,rational,sane, intelligent person who has reviewed the information and videos knows that the IHH planned to attack Israeli soldiers. Every news organisation has now confirmed, beyond any doubt, that the Israeli soldiers only retaliated when their lives were in danger.
Although a lefty like you probably wont' accept that stabbing a soldier, digging out his internal organs and intestines and then throwing him overboard would not constitute his life being in danger.
Perhaps it is just normal behaviour for you lot!

Both of you mention an armed attack?

(one soldier had 'his internal organs and intestines' dug out)

Where are the weapons? None were found.

There is absolutely no confirmation that the masked and armed soldiers were attacked. Infact the evidence says exactly the opposite.

The soldiers attacked the boats. In the dark. And shot 9 men in the head and back. Those are the facts.

And they will be repeated again and again.

The outcry from around the world was unanimous.

There is also a huge international movement growing to defend the rights of Palestinians.

Where are the weapons that the 'armed terrorists' were carrying?

Video evidence clearly shows weapons being used, soldiers being lynched and "kill the Jews" being shouted at them when they tried to come to a peaceful resolution.

Oh and what about the STUN GRENADE that was thrown?

What weapons?

list the weapons. And then provide evidence.

Again this is documented by video evidence. Metal poles beating soldiers, knives and daggers being held with intent to kill. Oh and the stun grenade, which you conveniently ignored. Go youtube the footage for yourself and give us a break from your mindless Jew-baiting for at least a while.

The metal poles were stair banisters.

The knives were kitchen implements or personal knives.

There were some catapaults, tis true. (and they are dangerous)

But where were the weapons?

Where are the guns, for example, the guns that terrorists usually carry?

Where were the guns?

Where were the guns?

Have you found evidence of the guns yet?

The guns that these 'armed terrorists' were carrying.

Where are the guns?

yankeeuxb
Whoever this is, he/she must be on a different planet from the rest of us.
There are plenty of eye-witness accounts throughtout the media that coroborates the Israeli version of events, including a Lebanese camerman on board and a second passenger who spoke to Reuters admitted that passengers on the ship had seized soldiers' weapons before shooting broke out, soldiers were shot at and examination showed they were wounded by those pistols - their own pistols, that were used against them.
Just look at the many videos out there in the media
showing the operation to stop the flotilla, which show armed Turkish passengers attacking and wounding soldiers.
The proof is there, what is the point of this blog?

yankeeuxb, why are you going on about guns?

But the point is that 9 unarmed civilians were shot. In the head, between the eyes and in the back.

Where is the video to show that?

Ah, it's all been confiscated. Why doesn't Israel return (untouched, of course) all the cameras, phones, lap tops that were stolen from the unarmed civilians?

Because the carefully doctored 'evidence' wouldn't tally with the footage of unarmed civilians being shot in the back, would it?

There is also plenty of testimony from those on the boat, including Israelis, about what happened.

How did those nine people die? And why were they shot in the back? And why so many times?

One of them was over 60.

Why do we go on about the guns?

Why does Isreal (and the war crime apologists) go on about the 'terrorist' on the boat?

There were no terrorists. Just civilians. Terrorists carry weapons to kill, maim and terrorise (as the IDF did, of course)

So where are the guns?

Show us the guns that these 'terrorists' were carrying.

This comment by Jon_i_Cohen has been moderated

Aw poor Yankeeuxb, if only there wasn't VIDEO EVIDENCE showing the Israeli commandos being assaulted and beaten to within an inch of their lives by terrorists, ready and waiting. If only there wasn't AUDIO EVIDENCE of them chanting "Kill the Jews! Send them to the gas chambers!" when the army asked them to halt. If only attacking people with inanimate items didn't automatically make the weapons. If only these things were not real, if only they were all some bad dream, maybe then you could feel vindicated as a raving anti-semite. Maybe.

yankeeuxb, there were no guns (apart from those the ihh seized from the israeli soldiers)

everybody agrees on that

the ihh had weapons, but not guns

so what?

when sgt s rapelled down (he was the last of 15 commandos, about 90 seconds after the first one), he found that he was now in command, because of serious gunshot wounds to two of his officers, and a fractured skull of the third …

"When I hit the deck, I was immediately attacked by people with bats, metal pipes and axes …"
…
Looking to his side, he saw three of his commanders lying wounded – one with a gunshot wound to the stomach and another with a gunshot wound to the knee. A third was lying unconscious; his skull was fractured by a devastating blow with a metal bar.
…
He pushed the wounded soldiers up against the wall of the upper deck and created a perimeter of soldiers around them to begin treating their wounds, he said. He then arranged his men to form a second perimeter, and pulled out his 9 mm. Glock pistol to stave off the charging attackers and to protect his wounded comrades.

The attackers had already seized two pistols from the commandos, and fired repeatedly at them. Facing more than a dozen of the mercenaries, and convinced their lives were in danger, he and his colleagues opened fire, he said. S. singlehandedly killed six men. His colleagues killed another three.

(this was from an interview of sgt s by yaakov katz of the jerusalem post on thursday 3/6/2010, three days after the event, at http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=177445)

Were any of you on the boat? The only photographic evidence at present is supplied by Israel. Rather one sided isn't it? The trouble is that Israel confiscated the proof that shows that they started shooting first. Wait and see what the UN enquiry reveals. Israel is in a big big hole now. Serves them right.

Must be nice to be so delusional.

clevenson: Were any of you on the boat?

clevenson, even if we had been on the boat …

you still wouldn't believe us, would you?

Yes clevenson, we need "evidence" from the terrorists of the IHH (an organization which was linked by France to the attempted bombing of Los Angeles airport, and which extolls the virtues of jihad and terrorism, backing the Taleban in Afghanistan) to even it out.

hg Well do you believe any of the eye witness accounts of people on the boat, or are they all liars?

clevenson, i'm a csi fan, so i prefer forensic evidence, which can't lie, to eye witnesses (israeli or anti-israeli), who can

the injuries to the israeli commandos were clearly caused by weapons

and the video evidence (even though it's israeli, i don't see how it can have been faked) also shows the israeli commandos being attacked

the few anti-israeli eye witness accounts that i remember from over two months ago are contradicted by that forensic evidence

if you have some eye witness account that isn't contradicted by the forensic evidence, perhaps you'll provide a link to to it, so that we can all discuss it sensibly?

Lara Lee's footage that was smuggled out contradicts the Israeli account of the flotilla attack which Israel itself conceeded was 'edited'. There were no terrorists on board, just as there are no terrorists on board the continuing efforts by Lebanon and India to break the illegal Israeli blockade of Gaza

Lara Lee's uneidt footage -

http://www.alertnet.org/db/blogs/29542/6f212be98b5affd52eaa1a16c744942f....

ibrows, iara lee's video was shot from 3 decks down, and could not possibly show who attacked who on the top deck!

(i confess my computer will not show the video … i assume you meant http://egyptianchronicles.blogspot.com/2010/06/flotilla-follow-up-full-i... or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwsMJmvS0AY … so i got my information from a comment on http://egyptianchronicles.blogspot.com/2010/06/flotilla-follow-up-iara-l... …)

programmer craig: The video was shot from 3 decks down from where the IDF was landing, and did not show anything that was happening on the top deck.
…
The video has a big piece missing, as I pointed out. It goes directly from the IDF guys roping down from the helicopters, to two IDF guys being held hostage below decks. There is no video showing what happened which resulted in those IDF soldiers being captured by terrorists.

ibrows, is that correct?

if so, i repeat …

if you have some eye witness account (of who attacked who with what weapons) that isn't contradicted by the forensic evidence, perhaps you'll provide a link to to it, so that we can all discuss it sensibly?

Funny how 30 shots to 9 killed becomes 60 shots to one killed.

If your colleague is being shot at or knifed or bludgeoned by a murderous jihadi would you stop to say, 'excuse me sir, could you turn round whilst I shoot you in the front of the head and the chest, it will look awfully bad if I shoot you in the back of the head and the back. Would you be so kind?'

This isn't just delusional or cognitive dissonance it is a serious medical condition.

If the UN enquiry finds that the IDF were acting in self-defence someone will say that the Zionists have taken over the UN or the Americans paid them off or they are Mossad agents.

If the enquiry finds one single little negative thing to say about the IDF's actions then it will mean that all Israelis are murderers, Israel has no right to exist, let's arm Hamas and Hizbollah.

This is the way bigots think.

JC

You need a serious review of your blogging policy . The general rule is that a modicum of free speech is allowed BELOW THE LINE .However this site appears to have been infiltrated by individuals who demonstrate a visceral hatred of Israel and use it for their own nefarious ends in order to delegitimise Israel ABOVE THE LINE .

I would not be able to reciprocate on sites such as MPAC ,or Lenins Tomb [not that I would wish to for one minute .In fact my comments BTL are wiped off of LT as fast as they go up.

Sharpen up your policy JC .

No to Israel hating /baiting trolls !

Absolutely right, Harvey.
If I want to see Jew-baiting delegitimisation of Israel (as distinct from an honest range of views) I will go to the Guardian - I do not expect to find it in the JC.

Also, I would be nice if the JC staff bloggers would engage with people who comment on their blogs, at least when they've been asked a question - Miriam Shaviv, who is always superb, does so, and is a wonderful example to the rest.

Sorry - I meant "it would be nice ..." [Goes to wake self up with coffee...]

Harvey, that's very Hoffmanesque of you, using terminology like trolls, mendacious and nefarious. Not very nice coming from someone who wants to be the next chair of the ZF.

I have to say I find it rather amusing that while the "Love Boat" advocates like our resident ibrows are busy trying to convince us that they were just a bunch of harmless old wierdy-beardies delivering chocolate and wheelchairs, the Arab world is happily boasting about sticking it to the IDF.

Even the person that posted that video boasts:

"By the way I am really amazed that those IDF soldiers were from the IDF fearless commandos , they were crying like little girls for God sake.", Followed by a slideshow of bloody and frightened young men.

Bit of an inconsistency ibrows. You want to watch out for those, they come back and bite you in the arse.

New video posted on Elder of Ziyon:

The clip, released on Army Radio’s website Wednesday morning – although currently not viewable, apparently because of the heavy demand – shows Zouabi standing next to a group of Turks who are armed with clubs and metal bars.

It is likely that they were among the mob that attacked the sparsely-armed IDF soldiers who rappelled down onto the ship after it refused to adhere to IDF orders to change course. Though the mob proceeded to beat and injure several soldiers, including one very seriously, the small IDF force was able to recover and kill nine attackers.

MK Zouabi said repeatedly after the incident, and again today, that though she was on the ship, she had no knowledge of any preparations for a violent attack on IDF soldiers. Knesset Speaker Ruby Rivlin said he plans to submit the tapes to the Attorney General and to the Knesset Ethics Committee.

Filmed in the stairwell of one of the ship's below-board floors, the clip first shows Zouabi with an orange life-jacket, standing and talking with mob members. One Israel Navy soldier testified that it was at this point that three of his comrades were being dragged below in an attempt to kidnap them; according to his testimony, it is unlikely that Zouabi did not see this.
...
The second half of the video is no less important. As pointed out in the Balfour Street blog, Zouabi is actually arguing with the IDF soldiers who want to evacuate the wounded to Israeli hospitals! Both she and another terror-supporting "activist" say that the injured do not want to be treated in Israeli hospitals. Apparently, they were hoping for more deaths. (She continues to deny knowing that the MM passengers had weapons.)

http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2010/08/new-mavi-marmara-video-and-fift...

Sam

1 I will take the JH comment as a compliment.

2 Apologies for using several words of more then two syllables .

3.Next chair of ZF ?? .It was my post not JHs unless of course you think JH is posting under an alias .Check out your TRex wires ,they appear to be crossed.

Harvey, the use of hoffmanesque terminology is a dead giveaway as is posting under the name of your main rival for the ZF chair

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