Coexistence on whose terms?


By Stephen Pollard
November 8, 2010
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I was listening to Sunday on Radio 4 on, erm, Sunday, when I was pulled up short by a remark from someone from the Coexistence Trust. Talking about extremism, in the context of Muslim terror, she said the trust works to combat extremism on both sides.

Eh? I'd be fascinated if she could supply us with details of the Jewish terrorists now threatening us and claiming to act in the name of the Torah. Maybe the Coexistence Trust knows something unknown to the rest of the world. Do share.

Then just now a press release just popped into my inbox from the very same Coexistence Trust:  

The
Coexistence Trust will be taking part in the NUS National Demonstration 
on Wednesday 10th November (which is expected to draw thousands of students) in
response to concerns raised by FOSIS and UJS that the impact of
government proposals will limit access to higher education and impact the
poorest students the hardest.   

FOSIS have
expressed concerns that interest on loans run contrary Islamic law and will
deter Muslim students who are averse to interest (riba) due to their Islamic
faith. UJS have expressed concerns that Jewish students could be ‘priced out’ of
higher education.

There's more of the same risible stuff. Leave aside the question of why a group supposedly promoting religious harmony should feel it necessary to go on a march against tuition fees. Just focus on the spurious rationale for what is in reality a transparent piece of bandwagon jumping:

FOSIS have
expressed concerns that interest on loans run contrary Islamic law and will
deter Muslim students who are averse to interest

That sentence is troubling in so many ways, not least the citing of FOSIS, an organisation which is behind so much of the problems on campus. But the idea that the arrangements for funding universities should be altered to take account of sharia law is simply jaw-dropping.

Co-existence! On whose terms?

COMMENTS

stephenb

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 18:21

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And of course when the jews didnt have the power they employed terrorism to get it. And more than one of these terrorists got to be a prime minister of Israel


Jon_i_Cohen

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 18:35

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The taking out of loans and paying interest is also against Jewish Law, excepting for certain circumstances.
It is avery complex tractate of Jewish law and unless a document called a Shtar Iska,( Kitzur Shulchan Aruch, chap.66)is drawn up a jew cannot take a loan. For example a Shtar Iska is displayed in most banks in Israel, (to geat around this aspect of Halacha).
So, i think we should make FOSIS aware that loans run contrary to Jewish law as they (may do) to Moslem law. So, no Jewish or Moslem students are allowed to have student loans.
WOT A LOAD OF RUBBISH!!
When is this Country going to wake up to the creep of the Islamofascists?
With 2.5 million embedded in the UK it is (almost) too late!


Yoni1

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 19:05

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Ever tried telling the truth? You might find the experience refreshing. Go on, you know you want to.


Yoni1

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 19:05

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Ever tried telling the truth, Stevie? You might find the experience refreshing. Go on, you know you want to.


stephenb

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 19:20

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Yoni it is not nice to speak to mr pollard that way


amber

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 20:07

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Mr Pollard, why is stephenb allowed to pollute the JC blogs? He has said that the Jews need Jesus to overturn a few tables, he has obscenely and insultingly said that Israel "begs" money off Germany, that Jews encourage stereotypes about themselves, uses the term "IOF" (Israel Occupation Forces) instead of IDF, and made other comments about Jews and money. In short, he is an antisemite.

Why is he here?


Yoni1

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 20:11

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1 point

Quite right, Amber. I was going to say the same thing myself, but had connectivity problems (hence the nearly duplicated post) so didn't bother at the time.
Moreover, he's not very bright (well, duh: he hates Jews). He doesn't get it that I was referring to him.
I second your call to SP to give him the size 11s.


DLeigh-Ellis

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 20:18

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Going back to the OP...

I didn't hear the programme in question but was it definitely referring specifically to 'Jewish' extremism? Because that would be unfair.

However, 'on both sides,' could just be referring to within the West as a whole... Pastors threatening to burn the Koran in the US would certainly qualify as extremist...

Having said that, you don't have to strap a bomb to your chest to be an extremist... Defacing mosques in the West Bank as happened recently could also be considered pretty extreme. At least more reasonable Rabbis were quick to try and make amends. That's something we can be proud of..


Yoni1

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 20:22

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-1 points

Threatening (!) to burn the koran is equivalent to trying to blow up airliners? Some people need to seek help to land back on planet earth.


DLeigh-Ellis

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 20:24

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-1 points

I didn't say in any way it was equivalent... Of course the two are on completely different levels. Murder is never a justifiable course of action, But burning a Religions holy book because of the actions of terrorists certainly qualifies the Pastor as something of an extremist.


Anthony Posner

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 20:49

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There is nothing extreme in any individual burning a book. (torah, bible, koran etc) It is actually the basis of Western civilization.

Btw, Hitler's mates didn't burn korans.


amber

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 20:50

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I agree completely Yoni1.

DLE's post is a textbook example of moral equivalence. Apparently hurting someone's feelings is as bad as mass murder.

There you have the morality of the far Left.

Unbelievable.


Anthony Posner

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 20:54

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Under the law, in civilized Western countries, if you own a book you are fully entitled to burn it. There is nothing extreme in doing so. It is the capitulation of western civilization to believe otherwise.

However, it is illegal to burn books that you do not own.


stephenb

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 20:55

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the cave of the patriarchs massacre, sabra and shatila , deir yassein,the king david hotel and loads of other stuff went just a lil bit beyond burning a few korans would you not say ?


Anthony Posner

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 20:57

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Best not to respond to stephenb.


Anthony Posner

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 21:07

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Now DLE might be upset that I regularly burn Victorian ghost stories. He has apparently written an essay about them when he was at York Polytechnic. However, that is his problem. Not mine.


stephenb

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 21:17

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ha ha ha tony game set and match to my ever so umble self


Jewish American...

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 21:17

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Denial ain't a river in Egypt.


DLeigh-Ellis

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 21:19

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still so bitter Anthony? If you want to turn another board into a slagging match, so be it... But you will be doing it by yourself. You can burn whatever you choose, it's absolutely no concern of mine.

Amber, if you read what I wrote - you will see that I specified precisely that the actions were not equivalent.

Attitudes here seem to suggest that burning a Koran or defacing a mosque would constitute reasonable, and not extememe behaviour.


Anthony Posner

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 21:19

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Now the so called "educated" people who go around telling you that you shouldn't burn your books, are quite idiotic. Usually they are self-righteous twats!

There is absolutely no rational reason whatsoever for not burning your own books. Of course, if they are of value it does make more sense to sell them. But assuming that they are worthless, why not burn them if you want to?


DLeigh-Ellis

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 21:20

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sorry *typo - extreme would be the correct spelling of extememe.


Anthony Posner

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 21:21

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DLE,
It is not that I am bitter. More a cae that you should have more sense. You have squandered your education.


DLeigh-Ellis

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 21:22

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By all means Anthony, burn as much of your own stuff as you wish..

A long way to go to make an inane point on the internet surely?


Anthony Posner

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 21:23

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DLE,
Defacing a mosque is illegal. It bears no comparison to burning your own books.


Anthony Posner

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 21:24

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I reiterate Westen civilization is based on the premise that one is able to burn the books that one owns.


stephenb

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 21:26

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-1 points

better an education squandered than an education never obtained


DLeigh-Ellis

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 21:29

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Wow... Quite a statement, considering that some of the greatest failings of civilisation began when people thought burning books was a logical course of action.

I guess the catastrophe of the burning of the ancient library of Alexandria would be an ideal definition of Western civilisation in your opionion... Does footage of Germans burning Jewish books in the 1940's give you a tingly warm sense of the strength of Western civilisation too?


Anthony Posner

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 21:31

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1 point

DLE,

Interesting that The Nazis never burnt korans. But since you studied Victorian ghost stories rather than the Third Reich, you are probably unaware of the complexities of their book burning ceremonies.


stephenb

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 21:32

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-1 points

not exactly tony in this country an incitement to racial or religious hatred , is a crime. Or are you suggesting that burning religious books, regardless of whether you bought them on amazon marketplace for a penny plus postage,and they are therefore yours, is a good defence ? Why would anyone buy a copy of the koran or torah or wotever and then burn it ? Because they are freaking nuts ? ill buy that one


Anthony Posner

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 21:34

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Did Nazis burn the books that they personally owned?


Jewish American...

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 21:35

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The bottom line is not everything Israel does in the name of survival is ok. When extremists figure that out, its legitimacy will no longer be threatened. By virtue of its own extremism, it de-legitimizes itself.


DLeigh-Ellis

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 21:38

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Anthony, whilst it's very flattering that you would start commenting on this blog in a pathetic attempt to argue with me it's also very boring.

Why are you so obsessed with Victorian ghost stories anyway? Is it because your arguments are about as transparent as a ghost?

_______

How do you know the Nazi's never burnt Korans anyway? How can you possibly prove that? They burnt anything that did not conform to the ideals of the Reich... I doubt a Koran would have escaped if there was a copy nearby...


Anthony Posner

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 21:38

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1 point

I am not advocating the burning of books in public libraries.

But I am saying that the right to burn one's own books is the basis of Western secular civilization.


stephenb

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 21:41

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-1 points

so i could buy an israeli flag replace the star of david with a bulldozer,burn it an it has no signnificence its my freaking flag


Anthony Posner

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 21:41

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DLE,

It is a pity but your historical knowledge is extremely poor.

The Nazis didn't burn korans because they didn't want to alienate Muslims. The latter were their allies.


DLeigh-Ellis

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 21:48

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Cite a reasonable academic source to prove they never burnt a Koran and you may have a point.

It is so completely absurd that you will sink to the level of suggesting that Western civilisation is solely based on a premise of the 'right to burn books,' just to score points on an online messageboard.

It is absolutely pathetic attitude that you present. Burning books is a disgusting notion - if anything Western civilisation is based on the premise of being able to publish a retort to any book you disagree with.... Extremist reactionism is based on the notion that it is acceptable to burn any book, just for the sake of it. You are devil's advocating - and failing at that too.


Anthony Posner

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 21:56

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3 points

DLE,

There is no evidence to suggest that The Nazis burnt Korans. It is extremely unlikely that they did, because it would have certainly alienated their Muslim allies.

I reiterate, it is my right to burn my own books, and it has absolutely nothing to do with you, if I make that decision. If you did not learn that at York Poly, I fear that your stay there was a total waste of your time.


Yoni1

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 22:01

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3 points

Leigh Ellis, try to concentrate, dear ... he only threatened to burn it. You get the difference, right?

But of course, even actually burning it would be a completely silly thing to even mention in the same sentence as mass murder.

Whether leftist lunacy, as exemplified by some here, is unbelievable or not is a moot point. It has caused enough suffering to hundreds of millions of people. It's real.

And ... yes, it's probably best not to engage with someone so ignorant that he thinks the KDH was a 'hotel'.


telegramsam

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 22:05

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Posner, I think it was Heinrich Heine who said: "Wherever they burn books, in the end will also burn human beings."
("Dort, wo man Bücher verbrennt, verbrennt man am Ende auch Menschen".) He wrote those words in 1821 and 120-odd years later he was proved correct. His own books, by the way, were burned in Berlin's Opernplatz in 1933 along with other Jewish- and "unsdesirable"-authored books.
Whatever education you had, if you had, was wasted.


Yoni1

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 22:06

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3 points

"By virtue of its own extremism, it de-legitimizes itself."

What total drivel. It is perfectly legitimate, and doesn't need permission from this or that idiot (yes, that includes you).


telegramsam

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 22:07

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-3 points

Yoni1, that's an almost clever disguise for Jon-i-Cohen. Shame you have not been able to write in a different style. Dead giveaway that, according to Posner's nitwit friend.


Yoni1

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 22:07

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Oh, great, here is TelegramSpam parading his little learning.


Yoni1

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 22:08

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2 points

And more drivel from Spammy. I am a completely different person from whoever he/she it is.


telegramsam

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 22:11

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Well, Yoni1, at least I have some learning. You are either Jon-I-Cohen or Jonathan Hoffman, who must be quite embarrassed that the ZF has joined forces with the NIF (which he has castigated) to fight against institutionalised racism in Israel. Well done, Zionist Federation. And that's not something you'll hear me say a lot.


telegramsam

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 22:12

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-3 points

Anyway, I'll let you zombies get on with it. Enjoy, sweethearts.


Yoni1

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 22:15

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Since I am neither of those people (I would love to shake Hoffman's hand, of course), Spammy's so-called learning bites the dust yet again. It's getting to be quite boring.


DLeigh-Ellis

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 22:15

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-3 points

All I'm going to say is wow... just wow...

This place never ceases to amaze me....

Ant, do you think that York 'poly' which is called York St Johns btw, is actually where I did my degree... or are you still just trying to mislead people...

Go burn some books, see if it ignites any sparks in that brain of yours.

g'night


Anthony Posner

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 22:16

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2 points

It is now much more complex than when Heine wrote in 1821.

(1) I have the right to burn my own books.

(2) If I choose to exercise that right, it has absolutely nothing to do with anybody else.

(3) That right to do so, is the basis of Western secular civilization, which is currently under attack from Islamic fundamentalists.

(4) The Nazis did not burn Korans, because they did not want to alienate Muslims who supported the extermination of World Jewry.


Anthony Posner

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 22:19

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1 point

DLE,
You obviously learnt to say, "wow" "wow", when you were partaking in seminars at York.


DLeigh-Ellis

Mon, 11/08/2010 - 22:22

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Repeating the same thing again and again does not make it right or true...

Neither does oversimplifying the subject.

Btw, good work with the google and wikipedia buttons... You are so transparent.

Hugs and kisses Ant, I'll be up to tuck you in later,
now it actually is goodnight...

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