 | By moshetzarfati2
January 11, 2010 | Share |
Last week, the Zionist Federation sent out an email urging its supporters to skew the results in favour of its stance on British Jews' relations with Israel. Basically it wanted supporters to "vote early, vote often". We got damage limitation, but no apology from its "elected" Vice President. Can we have an apology now for this obvious and typically cack-handed attempt at doctoring this important poll?
11 January, 2010 - 18:47 Rate this: 0 points | Hoffman obviously cannae help himself when found out. It was only the ZF which was sending out the come and poll early poll often emails. That's why Hoffman had his damage-limitation exercise immediately AFTER Moshe posted. |
11 January, 2010 - 19:12 Rate this: 0 points | Jonathan, I have proof the ZF wanted to skew the survery (my mate gave me Alan Aziz's email). Have you any proof (as in verifiable letters or emails) that other organisations were doing the same? |
12 January, 2010 - 09:47 Rate this: 0 points | I like your name, theedgeofwhere, and I agree with your sentiments. |
12 January, 2010 - 12:01 Rate this: 0 points | @Troll I have proof you are: - a lying toerag Have you any proof (as in verifiable letters or emails) that you are not? |
12 January, 2010 - 12:30 Rate this: 0 points | @ Jonathan I'm just wondering: what would a verifiable letter that proved someone was not an 'insignificant muckraking creep' actually look like? I mean, what would it say? On a separate note, do you think calling people 'trolling reptiles' does the image of the ZF any good? @ moshetzarfati2 Just so you know, other organizations have also been encouraging members to undertake the survey. for example: (2) |
12 January, 2010 - 12:36 Rate this: 0 points | If you have views about the image of the ZF then join (£60 per annum) and feel free to express them (instead of carping from the outside, like Statler and Waldorf in the Muppet Show). |
12 January, 2010 - 13:12 Rate this: 0 points | Your bullying and abhorrent behaviour, Jonathan, suggests that you have no proof that any organisation other than the ZF was trying to skew the poll. I rest my case, M'lud. An apology, please. |
12 January, 2010 - 13:38 Rate this: 0 points | "It is important that as many of us as possible complete this @troll - in what way does the above constitute 'skewing the poll" or telling people to "vote often"? You are simply a McCarthyite who has made a nuisance of himself with one of the ZF's constiuencies; a trouble-maker who represents no-one but yourself and who has now threatened this 'counterpart' 30 times; and an insignificant nonentity who seeks divisiveness. |
12 January, 2010 - 14:06 Rate this: 0 points | I agree with what you said in another blog about the poll about the dangers of repondents' "self-selection", Jonathan. Ah, well ... |
12 January, 2010 - 14:18 Rate this: 0 points | But Yvetta, Hoffman was asked for proof that other groups were doing the same kind of skewing as the ZF and he resolutely failed to come up with the goods, preferring instead to plumb the depths of abusive behaviour. |
12 January, 2010 - 14:24 Rate this: 0 points | Could Jonathan in some wayfind ways to |
12 January, 2010 - 15:38 Rate this: 0 points | Surely the reason he hasn't apologised is because he hasn't been involved in "nonsensical behaviour" and because by sending out emails to members the ZF was open and above board, not tampering in the least. ;~) |
12 January, 2010 - 16:05 Rate this: 0 points | @ Jonathan:
Funny comment that. No doubt you have views on lots of organizations you're not a part of - from the BNP to the the Iranian government - yet you don't seem to have a problem 'carping from the outside' as you put it. And why not? Why should you (or me, for that matter) have a problem doing so as you seem to imply? |
12 January, 2010 - 18:58 Rate this: 0 points | here we go again, let's attack the ZF. Yawn. I'm sure every organisation would encourage its members to do the survey the way they want it to come out. And the way Jewdas has phrased its advice to its own members is just that. All the Jewdas talk about "we just want you you to be honest" is tantamount to saying "please condemn Israel" because that is what Jewdas stands for. |
12 January, 2010 - 19:09 Rate this: 0 points | Jewdas whoever they are (anything to do with Sol Campbell?) started their campaign only because of the ZF's cack-handed attempt to skew the survey. |
12 January, 2010 - 19:33 Rate this: 0 points | "It is important that as many of us as possible complete this @troll - In what way does the above constitute 'skewing the poll" or telling people to "vote often"? You failed to answer this question because all you are good for is MacCarthyism and dishonesty. |
12 January, 2010 - 19:34 Rate this: 0 points | "I only did this because" is a feeble excuse. Many ZF supporters are naturally sympathetic to Israel but many are also critical. Also as the form takes apparently 15 minutes to complete "vote early, vote often" would not be a popular order! |
12 January, 2010 - 19:41 Rate this: 0 points | Allegations of McCarthyism are rich coming from you, Hoffman, since the stifling of debate by making baseless accusations is, erm, McCarthyist. And talking of baseless, you know what caused the destruction of the Second Temple, don't you? |
12 January, 2010 - 19:42 Rate this: 0 points | Rich, for those in their pajamas, repeatedly doing 15-minute surveys is no biggie. |
12 January, 2010 - 19:53 Rate this: 0 points | No way, Moshe. That is a ridiculous statement. Anyway, i'm off to do my survey; 5 times tonight and then another 5 times tomorrow. |
12 January, 2010 - 20:27 Rate this: 0 points | @moshe. Have to agree with you - J Hoffman comes across as a bully... |
12 January, 2010 - 20:37 Rate this: 0 points | Luckily, as with many bullies, we have learnt not to take his words to heart.... |
12 January, 2010 - 21:12 Rate this: 0 points | I was always told to stand up to bullies. And that's what I am doing |
12 January, 2010 - 21:20 Rate this: 0 points | Methinks a spot of anger management training would do Hoffman some good. By the way, has he ever got anybody banned from this site? This is after all JC.com not ZF.com. |
12 January, 2010 - 23:45 Rate this: 0 points | Hoffman may be too aggressive at times but it has to be said that he puts himself in the line of fire and makes some very important interventions at anti-Israel meetings across the UK exposing the lies while the rest of the Jewish leadership and community stays silent. |
13 January, 2010 - 08:18 Rate this: 0 points | Rich, "may be" is an understatement. If he wants to put himself in the line of fire, that's fine. But he shouldn't expect blanket admiration because in the minds of many a) he gives the Zionist cause a bad name and b) they don't want to be tainted with the same brush. |
13 January, 2010 - 08:18 Rate this: 0 points | Rich, "may be" is an understatement. If he wants to put himself in the line of fire, that's fine. But he shouldn't expect blanket admiration because in the minds of many a) he gives the Zionist cause a bad name and b) they don't want to be tainted with the same brush. |
13 January, 2010 - 10:27 Rate this: 0 points | Moshe, i've got news for you...you're tainted and it isn't because of Hoffman. The hatred for Zionism surpasses anything else in London's universities and among many on the left. And if you don't like his style why don't you get out there and do your bit? You can't change his style but i don't see anyone else trying to correct the lies and distortions about Israel as much as Hoffman does. |
13 January, 2010 - 11:19 Rate this: 0 points | I do my bit, quietly and sensibly. It tends to get people on your side if you rely in common sense, not emotion and abuse. The anti-Zionists love it when the loud brigade turns up. It gives them publicity that they crave but would not get otherwise. Remember the old saying: softly, softly catchee tiger. It works, as American Jewish groups found out when they went head to head against Mel Gibson's Aramaic-Latin snuff movie, the Passion of the Christ. Had it been ignored, the film would have sunk without trace. But because of the kerfuffle created by the ADL, ZOA etc, it grossed massive amounts of cash for Gibson. |
13 January, 2010 - 12:35 Rate this: 0 points | Well it is good you do but we can all learn a lot off each other. Jonathan is intelligent and has huge amouns of information. He has exposed lies at many a meeting. I have seen it. And I have seen the abuse he gets even when he is delivering the facts calmly and politely. So he can't win. Did you see the Peter Oborne programme on Channel 4 about the UK Israel Lobby? All the Jews mentioned do things "quietly and sensibly" as you say. They speak to people behind the scenes and take journalists to Israel etc. and they still get accused of treason. We can't win! This is not about valid criticism of Israel, this is about Israel's disappearance. They will not rest till she (Israel) is gone. |
13 January, 2010 - 12:46 Rate this: 0 points | Rich, I have seen him operate and he does get abusive very quickly. So quickly in fact that it's cringe-worthy. If he is trying to dispell lies and misinformation, he does so in a way that it gets lost in the white noise and the general guffawing. That's why the anti-Zionists love him so. |
13 January, 2010 - 13:45 Rate this: 0 points | This perpetual personal abuse of Jonathan Hoffman wreaks of harassment and is giving aid and comfort to Israel's enemies. |
13 January, 2010 - 13:57 Rate this: 0 points | I agree. It is so easy to criticise someone. I also lose my rag quickly. Some of the people he, and I, engage with are horrendous. It is human nature. We don't have to be nice as pie all the time you know. G-D, if that was the case Israel (the country, this time, Yvetta) would never have come into existence! |
13 January, 2010 - 14:19 Rate this: 0 points | I think Moshe, is making the point that it's not just about doing things and saying 'the end justify the means' - ie if zionist are trying to agreesively influence your opions on questionaires - there's a right way to go about it.. |
13 January, 2010 - 14:53 Rate this: 0 points | Yvetta and Rich, like all bullies, Hoffman knows how to dish out abuse, but he can't take it when it is thrown back at him. He immediately goes scuttling to his friends or the media. If anything is giving aid to Israel's "enemies" it's his performances. |
13 January, 2010 - 15:36 Rate this: 0 points | Yvetta, you want to rephrase that, perhaps? Nudge, nudge, wink, wink. Oooo Missus |
13 January, 2010 - 15:42 Rate this: 0 points | Personally, I have commended JH on his work. There is a thread somewhere on this website where I praise him for his experience at SOAS. What I object to is partly the fact that the abuse he recieved at SOAS became a bigger deal than anything I had heard him be involved with until that point, and as Raymee points out, there's no smoke without fire. Just click through the boards, you will see that myself and several others have asked Hoffman on several occasions to stop resorting to slander and to engage with us when one of us challenges the others ideals. Richmillet, you point out that you have seen JH engage politely with people at meetings. If this is so then why is he seemingly incapable of doing it here? The reason this has all blown up so much is because JH still resorts to these tactics of shouting 'troll' and slandering his opponent. Here is one thread in which I have attempted to engage with him and he has either ignored or ridiculed all the points that have been put to him. I believe there are other similar threads. http://www.thejc.com/blogpost/using-bogus-survivors-vilify-israel We are not anti-zionist, as Hoffman seems so keen to paint us.... we are more anti-idiocy. Just look at his first response on this thread. Even if Moshes accusation was false, is name calling really the right way to challenge it? |
14 January, 2010 - 08:17 Rate this: 0 points | He was on Press TV's panel some time ago about antisemitism, and all I saw was a stich-up against him. The usual shrill Israel-hating as-a-Jews making ad hominem comments and nobody letting him speak without catcalls and interruption. |
14 January, 2010 - 10:45 Rate this: 0 points | Yvetta, we used to have a saying in the army (gdud 890), "a clever man can get out of a situation that a wise man wouldn't get into." No self-respecting person should even be on Press TV. It's a no-brainer, for no-brainer propagandists. |
14 January, 2010 - 12:29 Rate this: 0 points | Perhaps we should discuss him more often, at least he seems to have gone very quiet for the last few days. |
14 January, 2010 - 14:56 Rate this: 0 points | Do you know, Moshe, I actually agree with you re Press TV. Appearing on it only gives it oxygen. Still, it was very brave of him to appear on the panel, if foolhardy. |
14 January, 2010 - 19:17 Rate this: 0 points | Maybe Hoffman crosses the line sometimes with his comments, but I think we need some assertive abrasive people like him in the pro-Israel camp. We're all being so terribly British and polite and restrained while the ant-Zionists get closer to their goal of delegitimising Israel and then wiping it out. |
14 January, 2010 - 19:44 Rate this: 0 points | For the record: I only did that PressTV panel because the other pro-Israel panellist asked me to. I did it out of loyalty to her. I would never have done it otherwise. I have done Press TV twice, apart from that - once against Daniel Machover and once against Aharon Cohen of Neturei Karta (he calls himself 'Rabbi' but that is false). I wiped the floor with both of them, as I knew I could - which was why I did it. I have now realised that appearing on PressTV allows it to say to OFCOM that it is balanced. That is a powerful reason not to do it again. |
14 January, 2010 - 20:29 Rate this: 0 points | Hoffman, If another pro-Israel activist asks you to jump off the BT Tower, by your logic, you'd do it. That's the problem with herd mentality -- there ain't much creative thinking. Still, at least you aren't giving Press TV the publicity any more. But you are helping the other anti-Zios when you turn up. |
14 January, 2010 - 21:35 Rate this: 0 points | David W, we certainly do need people like Jonathan. I think he should be cloned. ;~) |
Jonathan Hoffman
11 January, 2010 - 17:40
Rate this:
You are a lying malodorous shameless libellous trolling reptile.
The ZF drew the attention of its members to the survey, in the same manner as similar organisations are doing. Your insinuation that the ZF encouraged its members to vote more than once is a despicable libel and I will do my level best to get you banned from this site.