Bil'in - my Us-Them Pt2 Blog interrupted...


By Stanley Walinets
January 15, 2011
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I trust people will remember my Jan 9th blog, based on Anshel Pfeffer's helpful JC article on the death from tear-gas of a woman at the Bil'in demonstration.
There were many responses to that blog, ending with this rather typical one from jose:
"jose 10 January, 2011 - 04:29 : Any intention to apologise for your blood libel, Walinuts?"

I replied to all the comments I'd received. But to my surprise, straight after my reply came this message:
"Anonymous 12 January, 2011 - 15:59 : Comments for this page are now closed."

I emailed Webmaster, who told me this closure was because "The comments on the blog had descended into name-calling and it was no longer a constructive debate." (The name 'Anonymous' had been a site error, should have been 'Administrator').

This was distressing, precisely because my response had been DRAWING ATTENTION to the name-calling and urging people to stop it and look again at what Anschel Pfeffer had actually written, and comment on that.

So -- since people weren't able to do that because the blog had been closed, I'll now copy my last comment below: and I invite people to take up the points I'd made. I hope you all will.

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Stanley Walinets
12 January, 2011 - 14:57

Oh my God!
Why don't such commenters as 'jose', 'Yoni1', 'amber' and the rest of them above (who perhaps understandably hide behind anonimity)- WHY do not they EVER read what I've written but simply leap into their (often semi-literate) howls of insults? Do you people really sincerely believe that if you see any facts you don't like, you can prove there's no truth in them by simply shrieking, and insulting, and even mis-spelling names (eg 'Walinuts') just like the kids in the playground did when I was at school? Is that how you believe truth can be found? Even Mr Hoffman spells my name correctly, though he regards it as a swear-word...

But look. I'm a patient man. So I have to point out that none of you - NONE OF YOU - have acknowledged above that what I've written there is simply quoting the article by the JC's Jerusalem correspondent Anshel Pfeffer. NONE of you seems to have even read it. Or perhaps you have, and have written to him to scream at him to stop being a self-hater...

I'll forgive you. Just read what he wrote and what I quoted. If you'll look at it again, I wrote:-
"Perhaps Anshel's article still doesn't give an absolutely clear answer. But if you're prepared to read it carefully, then re-read Mr Hoffman's version, you will see Mr H has not checked his sources honestly (perhaps he was overcome by his perceived smell of ordure...)."
I went on:-
"What's really important is that we read especially carefully paragraphs 4,5,and 7. (GO ON, READ THOSE NOW!) They show there's a whole important background to this incident going back several years; mentioning the IDF's refusal to carry out the Supreme Court Order; the 21 Palestinians who've been killed and others injured during these protests; and the reasons behind these protests - the village cut off from a large part of its agricultural land."

"I sincerely hope, dear friends, (I wrote) that you will consider this event and its history and begin to think how we ourselves would like to be treated like this."

Now - do it. Or forever give up any claim to have the ability Jews have for centuries been proud of, the ability to consider facts and think with wisdom.
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I look forward to your reasoned comments. And I'm sure Webmaster does too.

COMMENTS

mattpryor

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 18:43

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That's alright Stanley, if you do get round to it just PM me and let me know so I can find the post.

Thanks.

PS have you read "Son of Hamas" yet? You should. Particularly now that their fellow travellers are about to seize control of Egypt.


jose (not verified)

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 19:10

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-1 points

Don't bother to try, Walinuts. Your logic is as faulty as your use of computers.


Stanley Walinets

Fri, 02/04/2011 - 13:36

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OK Matt - it's another day, I'll try again! But I really don't want to spend so much time trying to reassemble the closely reasoned points which - I assure you - I did write yesterday. What they amounted to was that basically I think your responses to my various points all suffered from the same weakness: you had responded to HALF of each point I'd made but had overlooked/ignored the other halves, in which generally I'd agreed with much of what you'd previously said but I had also drawn your attention to aspects which still had to be considered.

I'll give just one example. You had previously written that you'd decided Israeli forces hadn't committed atrocities they'd been accused of - and that you had based that decision on your belief that "Because Judaism is an enlightened and cultured civilisation... Civilised and cultured people do not generally commit wanton murder.... so it would be anti-Semitic to believe that Jewish soldiers would."

I had responded to your reluctance to accept IDF misbehaviours by writing this:
"Judaism IS an enlightened and cultured civilisation, I agree: but many cultured civilisations have been known to lapse. Consider eg Britain in its Empire period; America in the days of slavery and after; indeed, most Germans in the thirties believed themselves as civilised, but that didn't stop their horrible lapse when they were persuaded by German fanatics that nations next door rightly belonged to 'the Fatherland'.
Crazy minorities do sometimes take over a nation and even the cultured classes go along with them. So yes, it WAS possible that Israel's defence system did commit the atrocities they were accused of, despite your reluctance to believe that...".

But in your responses of Jan 27th, you completely ignored this.

As I've said, this is my general criticism of your Jan 27th response - you've responded, roughly, to HALF of each paragraph I'd written but you've ignored the other 'halves'. So I invite you to re-read my paragraphs now and I'll leave it at that.

For I want to return us to the absolute basics of Israel's and the Palestinian's problems. And these are vividly illustrated by the personal experiences of two individuals, which I've recently come across. Please read them, and reflect. But note: I'm not suggesting that Israel doesn't have its reasons for these kinds of behaviour: I'm only suggesting it's time for Israel to start asking itself whether this kind of thing is really in its own best interests - and our's.

Example 1) "Fatina Zen stayed until the end, peering down her street through the lashing rain as towering concrete slabs were slotted into place one by one across the middle of the road. She wondered if her son might suddenly appear on the other side to wave goodbye but he never came. The 52-year-old grandmother finally left once the latest section of Israels "security fence" - recently renamed the "terror prevention fence" to improve its image abroad - had bisected the street as it worms its way through the Jerusalem Arab neighbourhood of Abu Dis. Except that in Abu Dis it is not a fence but an eight metre-high wall (27ft) that has divided families and torn apart a longstanding community. "I cant bear it," said Mrs Zen, who until a few days ago lived a three minute walk from her two adult children and four grandchildren. "My son came to visit me two or three times a day. Imagine you live in the same street as your son but you cannot see him because they built a wall."

Example 2)‘This summer, at age 24, I was honored to learn that I had become the youngest journalist to receive the Martha Gellhorn Prize for Journalism, named for the famed American war reporter and awarded to journalists who counter propaganda with the truth. Although Israel has sealed Gaza's 1.5 million Palestinians in what many now call the world's largest open-air prison, Dutch MP Hans Van Baalen lobbied the Israeli government to let me leave Gaza to receive my award in person.

Upon my return from London, I was surrounded by Israeli security officers. I was stripped naked at gunpoint, interrogated, kicked and beaten for more than four hours. At one point I fainted and then awakened to fingernails gouging at the flesh beneath my eyes. An officer crushed my neck beneath his boot and pressed my chest into the floor. Others took turns kicking and pinching me, laughing all the while. They dragged me by my feet, sweeping my head through my own vomit. I lost consciousness.

Today, I have difficulty breathing. I have abrasions and scratches on my chest and neck. My hands don't function well; typing is difficult. My doctor informed me that due to nerve damage from one kick, I may be unable to father children and will need to have an operation’ Mohammed Omer Mohammed (‘From Triumph to Torture’ John Pilger, 2nd July 2008).


jose (not verified)

Fri, 02/04/2011 - 13:56

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-1 points

Poor Walinuts! He totally forgets there would be no need for the security fence it the 'Palestinians' didn't try to kill those who live on the other side of it.
His personal stories don't hold water compared to the war crimes committed on a daily basis by 'Palestinians' beyond the Green Line. But of course, there are two standards for Walinuts: those for pseudo-victims of Israel, and those for real victims of 'Palestinian' terrorism.


Stanley Walinets

Fri, 02/04/2011 - 16:27

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And poor Juicy, who totally forgets there'd be no need for the Palestinians to be resisting if they were treated honestly and didn't have more of their land stolen by illegal settlers every day - latest count, 500,000 and rising (as I've mentioined before , Juicy, but that's the bit where you stop thinking isn't it?)

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