Anti-Zionists urge rabbis to work with EDL


By Jessica Elgot
October 15, 2010
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Harry's Place has the story, but it's worth reprinting here...

On the front page of our website, we have a poll 'Should Rabbis work with the EDL?'. On the EDL, the Jewish community is united, the Board of Deputies, the CST and the great and the good have urged us to have no involvement with them, calling the group violent, with a hidden, racist agenda.

Luckily, overwhelmingly, our readers are agreeing, and voting 'No' in our poll.

But Tony Greenstein, the ardent anti Zionist blogger, has other ideas. On the "Boycott Israel Network", a forum of antizionist rantings...

Terry Gallogly, chairman of York Palestine Solidarity Campaign, says: “People might like to vote in this poll if only to embarass Hoffie [Jonathan Hoffman] and the Zionist Federation”

Tony Greenstein replies:“Done so and voted – in favour of course. Please try to make sure that people on BIN vote and to vote yes. It will be quite good for us that a JC poll comes out in favour of working with the EDL!!!”

Lucy Lips on Harry's Place writes:

So, in a nutshell, Tony Greenstein is suggesting that anti-Zionists should try to rig a JC poll, so that they can falsely paint Jews as racists.

This is dirty tactics at its lowest. EDL presence at pro-Zionist demonstrations is unwanted and the ZF have made it clear they are not welcome behind the same barriers. We are sending a clear message that our community does not want friends like these.

Greenstein's actions are not only dishonest and antidemocratic. They are very dangerous. As are those of the PSC, which the first poster Gallogly, claims to represent. The PSC are closely associated with the TUC, which recently extended their boycott of Israel. Perhaps the TUC, and not the ZF, should be the ones scrutinising their friends more closely.

UPDATE: We have suspended the poll. We can't trust the results any more and we wouldn't print the results of a hijacked poll in next week's paper. The results would not really reflect the view of the community. But despite the best efforts of Greenstein, when the poll came down nearly 80 per cent were still voting against contact with the EDL.

COMMENTS

telegramsam

Fri, 10/15/2010 - 15:31

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If the ZF has allegedly made it clear the EDL/BNP aren't wanted at their demos, why hasn't Jonathan Hoffman publicly dissociated himself from them? Why hasn't he made it clear that he has asked the police for separate pens? Why doesn't he demonstrate on alternate weekends so as not to be seen to be associating with the EDL/BNP?
Oh, and Jessica, none of the JC's polls is scientific, so I wouldn't be too worried about it or any other poll being nobbled one way or the other.


Jon.

Fri, 10/15/2010 - 16:21

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To back up Sam's point when one searches the ZF website for both EDL and English Defense league there are no results found.

http://zionistfederation.blogspot.com/search?q=edl
http://zionistfederation.blogspot.com/search?q=english+defense+league

Perhaps this is just due to their search engine but I would have expected to see a statement denouncing the EDL particularly if as you state:

"ZF have made it clear they are not welcome behind the same barriers."


Jenni Frazer

Fri, 10/15/2010 - 16:52

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It's because in Britain we spell defence with a "c".


Jon.

Fri, 10/15/2010 - 16:57

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haha. Touche Jenni!

An absent minded spelling moment from me. However.....

http://zionistfederation.blogspot.com/search?q=english+defence+league


stephenb

Fri, 10/15/2010 - 20:06

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Does Lonathan Hoffman know about this ?


stephenb

Fri, 10/15/2010 - 20:07

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I do of course mean Jonathan Hoffman thinking may be my strong point but typing isen't


Macairt

Sat, 10/16/2010 - 09:54

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Send Terry Gallogly a personal message:

http://www.facebook.com/people/Terry-Gallogly/691394497


Anthony Posner

Sun, 10/17/2010 - 08:14

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HI Jessica,

Great to see you blogging. Let's hope you are allowed to answer a few questions.

What do you think about Geert Wilders, Pam Geller and Robert Spencer? Are they personas non grata at The JC? I notice that they are never mentioned by Stephen Pollard. Has he taken instrcuctions from the Board of Deputies? Or from Nicky Saphir?


Jonathan Hoffman

Sun, 10/17/2010 - 08:47

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Latest outrage from the sh*t Greenstein:

http://azvsas.blogspot.com/2010/09/jonathan-hoffman-disappears-its-this....

The truth is that my mother died on 24 September. If he was in any way decent, he would want the earth to swallow him up.

But of course - he isn't


Anthony Posner

Sun, 10/17/2010 - 09:20

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Jonathan,
I wish you long life,


Philocetes (not verified)

Mon, 10/18/2010 - 08:00

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Kahina, You are so naive. Jono brought this upon himself by his words, deeds and actions.

What makes it right for Jono to abuse others, in person, online and in print, but when others reciprocate, according to you, it's wrong?

Kahina, YOU should hang your head in shame!

Btw, in this country we have the right of free speech. If you're not happy with it, go live in the DPRK, or better still, Israel, where many people still don't enjoy the rights that we have.


Watchful Iris (not verified)

Mon, 10/18/2010 - 08:01

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I've seen 10 year olds with more self control than some in here. I won't mention any names. Oh wait.....as adults in a public forum of our own accord, we're not responsible for our own choices and actions anymore......never mind.


Anthony Posner

Mon, 10/18/2010 - 09:32

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Tony Greenstein said...

"I'm sorry to hear that 'family reasons' have kept JH away recently. Let's hope he continues to spend more time with his family!"


tonyg

Mon, 10/18/2010 - 17:52

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Clearly Jessica Elgot is suffering from a sense of humour failure. Obviously I don't wish anyone to work with the EDL, but the posting I made was in the context of the fact that Jonathan Hoffman and his Zionist Federation have been holding demonstrations alongside the EDL. Because their loyalty to the Israeli state and its interests trumps anything else.

Anti-fascists on the other hand would NEVER stand alongside the EDL. And when Jessica begins her post by citing the appallingly racist and Islam-hating site Harry's Place, then we know that she has little understanding of these matters.

I don't think I need lectures on the EDL from those who never lift a finger to oppose them. Only this morning I receive a death threat from the EDL's partners in crime, the English Nationalist Alliance. Though to be quite honest it's sometimes difficult to tell whether a death threat is from the EDL/BNP or the Zionists. Except that the latter are more direct and along the lines of 'it's a pity that you didn't die in Auschwitz with your family' etc. Oh yes, nice people some Zionists are.

And unlike those who have no anti-fascist record to write home about I have a double billing on the main Nazi list that targets anti-fascists - Redwatch.

REDWATCH COMMENTARY:
Tony Greenstein has been known to Brighton Nationalists for years. Being Jewish he has a racial interest in working to support "asylum seekers" as it's good for the Jewish Capitalists that control this country. He's trotting out the same old lies about Redwatch that every screaming red exposed on the site tells the press, you'd think he'd come up with something a bit more original. The media speak of Alex McFadden's 'attack' as being a crime committed by Nationalists and is unequivocally due to Redwatch but this is pure hype. Hypocrites like Greenstein and his kind have been harrassing and terrorising Nationalists in the pages of their local and national newspapers and the Zionist lie-sheet Searchlight for years. They don't like it when they get the same treatment it seems.

http://elvis.redwatch.org/southernreds.html

Can't imagine that Hoffman is even on their radar.

But as with all these things a serious point is being made. Britain's Orthodox Rabbis, especially Lubavitch, do indeed plough a racist furrow. We have Lubavitch rabbis in Israel, in particular one Yitzhak Shapira publishing a book 'The King's Torah' which openly advocates killing non-Jewish children and civilians and distinguishes between killing Jews and non-Jews. I could quote Rabbi Dov Lior of Yesha Council and a senior rabbi in Israel about how one must distinguish Jewish and non-Jewish blood. I challenge any of them to dissociate themselves from this racist nonsense. If not then my comments are extremely valid. The rabbinate are the most bigoted and racist section of the Jewish community. I should know, I was brought up in the Orthodox fold and my dad is one!

And the fact is that Jonathan Hoffman did demonstrate together with the EDL and was captured on camera dancing down the street with Roberta Moore. When he suggested that the photo was faked he had to back down quickly because of a threatened libel action.
http://azvsas.blogspot.com/2010/08/jonathan-hoffmans-lies-catch-up-with....

I apologise if I thought that Hoffman had refrained from attending any more demonstrations with the EDL because his seniors in the community had told him to wise up. I accept that this was because of the death of his mother and that he would otherwise have been holding hands with Roberta Moore again.

And although some people are trying to use Hoffman's personal tragedy to make political points I will not do so. Every death is a tragedy and the loss of a mother is particular sad. However what I also point out in my latest posting is that Jonathan has never expressed the slightest concern about the death of Palestinians. The murder of 400+ children in Cast Lead was an appalling war crime yet he defends that and much more, including the murders on the Mavi Marmara. Jonathan understands his own pain but no one else's.

And what does one make of Hoffman's latest posting:
'The truth is that my mother died on 24 September. If he was in any way decent, he would want the earth to swallow him up.' How does that excuse Hoffman's actions?

Instead he calls me the 'sh*t Greenstein'. JH seems to be autistic. No sense of humour and no understanding of his own impact on people.

Is JH beyond criticism because his mother died?

In which case let us broaden it. WHy is it that most of the European far-right support Israel and Zionism? What is it about Israel and Zionism which makes it so attractive, not just to the boneheads of the EDL but to bourgeois far-right politicians like Michal Kaminiski of Polands Law & Justice Party? A man who OPPOSES an apology for the massacre of hundreds of Jews who were burnt alive in Jedwabne in 1941. The stench from this man is far greater than anything from EDL. And yet this scumbag tours Yad Vashem and speaks at the Tory Party conference alongside Ron Prossor, Israel's Ambassador.

To say nothing of Robert Ziles, of Latvia's Freedom & Fatherland Party, another friend of Israel and Zionism, and supporter of the Latvian Waffen SS. One could go on and on, the list is literally endless. They admire how Israel deals with Muslims and like its 'robust' approach to migrants. This is where the Zionist dream has led. Lieberman and adulation from Gert Wilders and all the rest.

The soporific words from the CST belie their actions, when they stewarded a counter demonstration at the Israeli embassy to celeberate the murders on the Gaza Freedom Flotilla knowing full well that the EDL were also present.

Tony Greenstein

http://azvsas.blogspot.com/2010/09/killing-non-jews-is-kosher-and-symbol...


Macairt

Mon, 10/18/2010 - 20:17

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Greenstein,

you attempted to smear British Jews in general as supporters of EDL, to incite hatred against them.

You will never live that down, unless you sincerely apologise.

The vast majority of Anglo-Jews will shun you, only more so, as an anti-Semitic agitator. I suspect your PSC buddies, who you tried, and failed, to warn about anti-Semitism in their ranks

http://www.engageonline.org.uk/blog/article.php?id=918

will also keep you at arms length, now, too.

"I don't think I need lectures on the EDL from those who never lift a finger to oppose them."

At least they didn't try to encourage British Jews to support them, or smear them as though they had.


Macairt

Mon, 10/18/2010 - 20:26

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'Anti-fascists on the other hand would NEVER stand alongside the EDL.'

Your kind of "anti-fascists" stand and march beside plenty of Arab and Islamic fascists and racists. Periodically share platforms with them too.

And JH and ZF didn't 'stand beside the EDL'. The EDL turned up at pro-Ahava demonstrations by ZF et al., shunned and uninvited. ZF and JH have made clear they are unwelcome time and again. They can't forcibly evict them, since

a) it is illegal and

b) they don't have to.

Only in your racist, demented imagination, where British Jew (on average) = white supremacist, is there a collaboration or alliance.


Macairt

Mon, 10/18/2010 - 20:29

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'The stench from this man is far greater than anything from EDL.'

OK, Greenstein, you have now entered the realm of anti-Semitism pure and simple.

You will never be taken seriously by the vast majority of British Jews ever again.

You have managed to scream yourself into irrelevance.


Macairt

Mon, 10/18/2010 - 20:33

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"No sense of humour and no understanding of his own impact on people."

Yeah. Attempting to incite (largely Muslim?) hatred of British Jews by smearing them as EDL supporters is a hilarious little practical joke.

Funny, because that is precisely the kind of black op of which you routinely accuse "Zionists". By which you routinely equate "Zionists" with Nazis, actually.


Jonathan Hoffman

Mon, 10/18/2010 - 20:45

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Greenstein posted the following on his blog:

"You are actually using your mother's death to try and get one over on political opponents"

He is beneath contempt. He never even bothered to find out why I was not at the Ahava demo the day after she died. I note he has apologised (17:52, above). If he had any shame he would ask the earth to swallow him up. But of course he has no shame.

He is a liar who thinks nothing of posting lies about me on his blog:

http://www.thejc.com/blogpost/greenstein-lies-and-smears

http://www.thejc.com/blogpost/the-mendacity-anti-zionists

He tried to rig the JC poll only last week:

http://hurryupharry.org/2010/10/15/tony-greenstein-wants-rabbis-to-suppo...

Greenstein is a pathetic Trot who is a dinosaur from the worst days of the USSR. He spends his deranged life trying to prove links between Israel and Nazism.

No-one takes him seriously with the possible exception of the loonie Fink and the Morning Star. He has no impact on anything that matters. He tried to get a motion through at SPSC condemning antisemitism (on his definition) but was sent on his bike.

He is despicable.


telegramsam

Mon, 10/18/2010 - 20:53

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Jonathan, a little historical knowledge and you would have known that the Trots were as welcome in the Soviet Union as a bacon sandwich at the Chief Rabbi's Office. And who takes you seriously?


Macairt

Mon, 10/18/2010 - 21:03

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"You are actually using your mother's death to try and get one over on political opponents"

Jonathan, he's demented. Seriously. He is so demented, so convinced in his small, racist imagination, that the average British Jewish JC reader is a White Supremacist EDL supporter, that he actually has to bend reality to conform with his psychosis by fixing an online poll.

He's bonkers.


Macairt

Mon, 10/18/2010 - 21:08

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"He tried to get a motion through at SPSC condemning antisemitism (on his definition) but was sent on his bike."

That's not a good thing, Jonathan. You're beginning to sound like Tony Greenstein. You really should apologise for that.

He tried, and failed, to get PSC to recognize the problem of anti-Semitism in its ranks. Don't celebrate his failure then just because he acted despicably in now. That is pretty demented too, Jonathan.

Unfortunately, Greenstein's failure seems to have made him go down the path of anti-Semitic agitator, in collusion with the chairperson of York PSC, Terry Gollogly.


Jessica Elgot

Mon, 10/18/2010 - 23:42

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I don't have little understanding of these matters Tony. You and your friend tried to paint Jewish Chronicle readers as EDL supporters for political gain, by dishonest means. Which bit am i misunderstanding?


Anthony Posner

Tue, 10/19/2010 - 06:28

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J E,

You have to love the extreme Left. They come up with the most marvellous conclusions...

"And when Jessica begins her post by citing the appallingly racist and Islam-hating site Harry's Place, then we know that she has little understanding of these matters." (Greenstein)

Clearly, "Harry's Place" is out of bounds. You are not allowed to read it. If you continue to do so, you will inevitably, become "racist".

But actually, lets hold our ideological horses... You are already "racist". When were you last in Israel?

Are you against the boycott? If you aren't, then one might conclude that, according to Tony Greenstein, you are actually a "Nazi".

So as I have previuosly written, this whole debae about The EDL is a shmalz herring. It really doesn't matter whether some of them are "Nazis" or not. Because, you, yes you Jessica Elgot, have metamorphosized into a "Nazi".

Nice, eh?


Yvetta

Tue, 10/19/2010 - 11:03

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Jonathan Hoffman has repeatedly dissociated himself and the ZF from the EDL. Can we please dispense with this defamation of him once and for all.

Here, for example, is what Roberta of the EDL "Jewish Section" wrote as a comment here:
daphneanson.blogspot.com/.../all-out-of-love-high-noon-in-covent.html
When I found out about the Ahava protests I wrote to the ZF asking them for their support in coming to counter-protest those morons with us, and it was then that I was told the counter-protests had already been organized by them (ZF)and they usually go every 2 weeks. (I had no idea someone was already counter-protesting, and when I waWhen I found out about the Ahava protests I wrote to the ZF asking them for their support in coming to counter-protest those morons with us, and it was then that I was told the counter-protests had already been organized by them (ZF)and they usually go every 2 weeks. (I had no idea someone was already counter-protesting, and when I was told, my respect increased for the ZF, because until then I had thought they were not doing enough for us Jews in the UK).

It is true that Jonathan did not want us there and told me so,)perhaps because of the EDL reputation from the deceitful media lies) but I flatly rejected his pleas. Why? Because I am Jewish and Zionist, and I have as much right as he has to protest against these evil people. So I got the group together and we went. s told, my respect increased for the ZF, because until then I had thought they were not doing enough for us Jews in the UK).


Anonymous

Tue, 10/19/2010 - 12:05

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This comment by Jonathan Hoffman has been moderated


Jonathan Hoffman

Tue, 10/19/2010 - 12:07

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Please ban TelegramSam, he has no right to cyberstalk me like this


telegramsam

Tue, 10/19/2010 - 12:17

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Jonathan, again you go all defensive and abusive. Why? It's a pretty easy request -- and it's not cyberstalking because you have put yourself up here in an official capacity -- just dissociate yourself from the EDL/BNP, in your own words, without the need to use others. Is that so difficult? And don't anti-democrats want people banned?
Your claim about controlling demos is quite disingenuous. The EDL/BNP can demonstrate wherever they like. It's just that Jews must never, ever stand with these or other Nazis.


Jonathan Hoffman

Tue, 10/19/2010 - 12:27

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"I told SB that there was some crossover between the BNP and the EDL and that the EDL sometimes intimidated Muslims and that both these are reprehensible."

Which of these words do you not understand, cowardly anonymous a*sehole?

Go to your football matches. Forget supporting Israel in our demo. Just cyberstalk to your heart's content.


telegramsam

Tue, 10/19/2010 - 12:41

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But you do not dissociate yourself, Jonathan. Again you resort to being defensive and abusive. It's simple: a plain, clear statement that you and the ZF dissociate yourselves totally from the EDL/BNP. What's so hard about that? Yes the EDL/BNP indulge in reprehensible acts, but you don't dissociate from the EDL/BNP.
And are we to believe what's written in the Guardian now?
No one is cyberstalking you. You put yourself up here.


Jon.

Tue, 10/19/2010 - 13:24

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Jonathan I think what people (myself included) want is a simple statement either from yourself in a personal capacity or from the ZF in an professional one stating that you do not share the aims of the EDL, you renounce them and, most importantly that neither you nor the Zionist Federation will stand/march with them in any capacity?

Does that seem fair?


Macairt

Tue, 10/19/2010 - 14:01

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'you renounce them and, most importantly that neither you nor the Zionist Federation will stand/march with them in any capacity?'

By which you mean, if the EDL turn up outside Ahava, ZF and JH shop immediately stop their demonstration and go home.

JH has repeatedly disassociated himself and ZF from the EDL, but that will never be good enough for you or Greenstein because you are DESPERATE to maintain, WHATEVER EVIDENCE IS PRESENTED TO YOU TO THE CONTRARY that ZF and JH are, to all intents and purposes, EDL.

So desperate was Greenstein, in fact, he had to fix an online poll.

The old anti-Semitism said Jews were black and anti-white.

The new anti-semitism says Jews, unless they prove their anti-Zionist credentials, are white and anti-black.

It's still racism, and still anti-Semitism.


yankeeuxb (not verified)

Tue, 10/19/2010 - 14:01

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Dear Jessica, can you clarify the following remark:

'They are very dangerous. As are those of the PSC, which the first poster Gallogly, claims to represent. The PSC are closely associated with the TUC, which recently extended their boycott of Israel'.

What is 'very dangerous' about the PSC and the TUC?


Macairt

Tue, 10/19/2010 - 14:05

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"But you do not dissociate yourself, Jonathan."

"Look you ignorant obsessive cowardly moron, time and again I have spoken out about the EDL."

Anti-Semites like Teleg. and TG will never be satisfied. That Jews who support Israel are white supremacists is the article of faith to which they cling no matter what.

The JC is amazing that it tolerates such (non-Jewish?) anti-Semites. But I think enough is enough.


yankeeuxb (not verified)

Tue, 10/19/2010 - 14:06

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Someone wrote a while back that J Hoffman is probably a plant. So rabid, right wing, insulting, pompous and pathetic is he that he is probably a Jihadi plant designed to alienate all reasonable discourse and feed the impression that Zionists are hell bent on the delegitimization of Palestinians as well as their occupation and violent deaths.

His right wing fundamentalist hate can't be real can it?


Macairt

Tue, 10/19/2010 - 14:09

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['They are very dangerous. As are those of the PSC, which the first poster Gallogly, claims to represent. The PSC are closely associated with the TUC, which recently extended their boycott of Israel'.
What is 'very dangerous' about the PSC and the TUC?

The conspiring to smear British Jews by the Chairperson of York PSC, Terry Gollogly, you div.

The TUC is dangerous if it is party to spreading such smears.


telegramsam

Tue, 10/19/2010 - 14:11

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Actually, Macairt, that's not a bad idea. The ZF and Jonathan should walk away if the EDL/BNP turn up. Jews must never stand with Nazis.
Not all Zionists rely on the support of the EDL/BNP at their demos. There are whole new pro-Israel, pro-peace organisations which are not conned by the tactics of the far right.


Macairt

Tue, 10/19/2010 - 14:11

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'His right wing fundamentalist hate can't be real can it?'

His alleged alliance with the EDL isn't real, if that is what you mean, you rabid, moronic bigot.


Macairt

Tue, 10/19/2010 - 14:12

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Jessica, these rabid anti-Semites running riot, it's got to be stopped, right?


Jonathan Hoffman

Tue, 10/19/2010 - 14:12

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"I told SB that there was some crossover between the BNP and the EDL and that the EDL sometimes intimidated Muslims and that both these are reprehensible."

Do you not understand English?

TelegramSpam, your agenda is not comprehension, it is cyberstalking. You show no support for Israel, in particular you do nothing to oppose the boycotters.

Moreover you are a coward who will not use his own name. You have infinite time (and it seems money) to provoke, goad, lie and misrepresent.

I am afraid that I do not have infinite time to respond and feed your deranged obsession.

If the JC Editors think you are a suitable person to entertain here, so be it.

I do not.


Macairt

Tue, 10/19/2010 - 14:15

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Does PSC or JFJP pack up and go home when they mingle with assorted Islamic racists and fascists?

Do they f---.


yankeeuxb (not verified)

Tue, 10/19/2010 - 14:17

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What did Terry Gollogly say?


telegramsam

Tue, 10/19/2010 - 14:18

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I have already said countless times that the JfJfP is standing with the same kind of Nazi scum when they march with Hamas/ Hizbollah proxies. But I expect no different from them.


telegramsam

Tue, 10/19/2010 - 14:23

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Macairt, they are standing with, mingling and all the rest. There's sufficient photographic evidence of that. The problem is that Jonathan has become the story, thereby detracting and distracting from support for Israel, which is the main purpose of the ZF. Jonathan should either unequivocally dissociate from the EDL/BNP or the ZF should do it for him.
And Macairt, the Ahava demo isn't all Zionists. It likes to think it is, but it is a very small minority that is giving the whole movement a very bad name.


Macairt

Tue, 10/19/2010 - 14:24

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'I have already said countless times that the JfJfP is standing with'

No. Apart.

I know you have. Because you are a racist little moron who the JC tolerates I know not why. You are probably some lonely old anti-Semitic geriatric, and this is the only place where anyone will 'talk to' you.


Macairt

Tue, 10/19/2010 - 14:24

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'I have already said countless times that the JfJfP is standing with'

No. Apart.

I know you have. Because you are a racist little moron who the JC tolerates I know not why. You are probably some lonely old anti-Semitic geriatric, and this is the only place where anyone will 'talk to' you.


Macairt

Tue, 10/19/2010 - 14:27

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'And Macairt, the Ahava demo isn't all Zionists.'

So what? If they stay when the EDL come, they are just as bad, says you. Idiot. F---- idiot.

'What did Terry Gollogly say?'

Read the article, and follow the links, nobulous.


Jonathan Hoffman

Tue, 10/19/2010 - 14:27

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As regards enquiries about the ZF, I am advised that I cannot respond anymore to queries which are posted anonymously on the Internet. However, please do not hesitate to write to the staff at the Zionist Federation with your concerns. (You will of course need to give your real name and supply a postal address).

Zionist Federation of Great Britain and Ireland
BM BOX 1948
London WC1N 3XX

office@zionist.org.uk


Anonymous

Tue, 10/19/2010 - 14:30

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