An open letter to Harvey Rose

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Hate multiplies hate, violence multiplies violence, and toughness multiplies toughness in a descending spiral of destruction....The chain reaction of evil--hate begetting hate, wars producing more wars--must be broken, or we shall be plunged into the dark abyss of annihilation.
Martin Luther King Jr.

Methinks these pro-EDL "recidivist members" are a figment of the always droll Mr Makowsky's fertile imagination.

" And an extra Yashar Koach should be given for joining forces with the Avraham Fund and the New Israel Fund, among others, to help alleviate the plight of ethnic and other minorities in Israel who are suffering from institutionalised racism and homophobia"

- difficult to believe that someone in his right mind could compose such a sick sentence! But he has the NIF in there together with the homos - what does that tell you - about them and about him?

Telegramsam, provide transcripts containing so-called "evidence" of what you claim is "institutionalised racism and homophobia".

More of the usual hysterical lies about the EDL being 'far right'. They are not. They are patriots standing up to far right Islamofascists, the darlings of what used to be the decent left in this country, now steeped in antisemitism.

And more hysterical lies born from a union between antisemitic hatred and general stupidity, this time about 'homophobia'. Israel has a more enlightened attitude to gays than 99% of the world's countries.

Avraham, you are a disgusting and sickening little bigot.

These are not animals. This kind of language was used by the Nazis towards Jews and other 'inferior beings', and is still used by IslamoNazis towards Jews and other 'inferior beings'.

Gay people are human beings. Can you get that through your thick skull, you vile little man?

Avraham and tsam are just speaking the same language. Both hating those who don't share their biased views of the world.
And Yoni1 is correct: Israel is a paradise for homosexuals, compared to most countries, including a number of bigoted Catholic-majority countries in Europe.

Well well well

The vexatious little lying pisher is a nonentity as we always knew he was..........

Heaven forfend he should pay out £60 like everyone else to become a ZF member and genuinely influence policy - he prefers to spend his money on watching football.

Hi all, I am new here, but I came across this article and wanted to make a comment.
I agree with Yoni1 in most things. But I am actually shocked with the comments from Avraham.

"only homosexuals themselves use the kind of hysterical language you have just used. Normal people are far more objective and detached (and of course, disgusted at behaviour that isn't found in the entire animal kingdom)"

First of all you have displayed a terrible prejudice against homosexuals. Something that should not be tolerated in the 21st century.
Secondly, you have insulted Yoni by alleging her comments are "Hysterical". Well, they are not. The only hysterical, biased, biggoted person I can see here at the moment is you. And thirdly, you have displayed an incredulous amount of ignorance / stupidity by alleging that homosexual behaviour is not found in the "entire" animal kingdom.

Mind me asking, which school you attended? Have you ever watched Discovery channel? How about History channel? No?
Hmmm.. well, surely you must have read some scientific books? No again?

Oh my oh my!! What hole did you crawl out of then?

I will give you the basics then.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behav...

Start by reading this. Then all you need to do is "google" for homosexuality in Nature.
Get yourself educated.

Great post, Ufara, but Yoni's a bloke.

Now, in relation to the above article, "An open letter to Harvey Rose", I wish to say that I am leaving the Zionist Federation. I shall not spend a penny more on this biased, anti-Zionist, bigoted and shameful organization.

I used to think that the Zionist Federation stood for true Zionism but lately, my friends and I have been watching the EDL (principally the EDL Jewish Division, which was created recently) doing so much more than any "Zionist" organization!
They organized a demo outside the Israeli embassy on 24th October, which we have attended, and I was elated to hear what they said. I had goose-bumps when I heard them speak about their support for Israel, and even express their knowledge on the historical facts surrounding the Israeli x Palestinian conflict.
Even the Prime Minister of Israel does not speak so honestly like that.

The EDL also managed to cancel 2 conferences promoting hate speech - both in Tower Hamlets where Jews are constantly assaulted. The last conference was booked for 27th November and I just contacted the council who informed me it was now cancelled due to thousands of complaints received.

I was shocked to find out the neither the Zionist Federation or the CST have issued any complaints.

I know which side I want to be on, and it is for this reason that my friends and I are leaving the Zionist Federation, cancelling our membership and funds and will be donating to the EDL instead.

I simply cannot risk being part of any organization that does not have the interests of our liberty, our freedom of speech, and of Israel and Jews as a priority.

Telegramsam I apologise as I must have initially read his name as Yonit.

Slicha Yoni!

Yes, many ZF supporters are disappointed that they have aligned themselves with "Not In My Name -- Jews Against the EDL".

Although the EDL are not very eloquent messengers - their message of fighting against creeping Islamism is ours too.

They should have just kept a dignified silence. Same for the Israeli Embassy.

Agree with Kahina - dignified silence would have been best and let them get on with it.
Where on this web site is there ANY anti-semitism?

http://www.englishdefenceleague.org/

It's just another example of creeping leftist vociferousness.

It IS the Islamists that are the problem NOT the EDL

This EDL need a makeover. Maybe we could get a photo of some of them tucking into a salt beef sandwich in some Golders Green eatery?

(Just waiting for Sam to embed a picture of some tattooed, shaven headed youths).

Dear all,

I am not sure how many of you here actually know the EDL or who is in the EDL Jewish Division. But I can assure you, that you do know them but don't know they are EDL. I say this because I have met many who have agreed to remain silent about the EDL and their cooperation with them, in order not to be marginalized by our own communities. This is most disturning because it makes me feel as if my own people are against me simply because I chose not to be silent about Islamism anymore.

Like me, there are hundreds more.

The strange and usual perception within the community is that the EDL is some sort of racist thuggish group, but this is a really ridiculous assessment of these people, because - you may not even know that - there are hundreds of old ladies and old men there, and I was really surprised to see many from Hendon and Edgware, from the same shuls I go too. We have meetings like every 2 or 3 weeks. I only been to one so far, but I really enjoyed it and the general atmosphere was really light and happy.

One more thing, please don't think they are all stupid and uneducated. There are a couple of scholars there, and the head of the division, was telling us she went to a lecture about Islamism or something, last week at the French Institute, with the head of the gay division and a friend from a group called 4 freedoms, and them 3 alone completely exposed the so-called scholar who was invited to speak about his book on Muhammad.
Their knowledge on Islam, History and other stuff is really good. The scholar was from Cambridge, and the 3 EDL members exposed him as a farse before the whole room.

Kahina, funny you said that abt the salt beef.
The head of the division posed for loads of photos in a bakery in Golders Green. I recognized the wall as I go there all the time.

Well if you can get a celebrity in the picture too, the JC may become more sympathetic to them.

Finally a conversation about the EDL that doesn't involve calling each other racists and fascists.

To be honest I haven't made my mind up about the EDL. We hear a lot said about them but then again we hear a lot said about Israel which isn't true. I watched the video of a bunch of white lads storming a Muslim cafe and was quite alarmed - the JC told us they were from the EDL but I didn't see any evidence of this in the video so am not rushing to judgement.

It should also be considered that as a group that opposes Islamist politics they will naturally be derided and demonised by people with an agenda.

Typically when trouble happens at one of their "demos" the media tends to blame the EDL for the violence, and I know from other events not necessarily involving them that the reality isn't always quite that simple.

At the end of the day they are perceived as the noisy trouble-making side of English nationalism. They take an unashamedly pro-Israel stance - which very few political groups are brave enough to do - and again this appeals to a lot of ordinary people who are fed up with the constant Israel bashing and pandering to Islamist extremism.

But it seems to me that their strategy is to target Muslim communities (not Islamists) with intimidation and sometimes violence, and I cannot condone that - in fact I think it's appalling. The vast majority of British Muslims are hard working and honest and it is not right to punish them for the behaviour of a minority. That road leads to disaster for race relations in Britain.

Unfortunately nationalist groups, however well intentioned, will always attract racists and thugs. But perhaps the EDL's pro-Israel stance will discourage many of them since racism and anti-Semitism very often stem from the same supremacist mentality, and anti-Semites are hardly likely to support Israel.

Funny old world.

Why don't you all look out for the actual EDL videos on you tube, where they have exposed these videos as fake and the media too.

There are a few of them where they received videos from the passers-by and those who were watching their protests from their homes. The videos were emailed to the EDL who then used them to expose the truth.

Mattpryor, the one you are referring to was in Leicester and was also exposed as a fake.
The EDL did not enter the cafe.
And they recorded a Muslim man saying: "Any white nuts, hit it!"
On their video they also prove the SKY TV van was not harmed in any way, while the sky reporter was saying the EDL broke their van and attacked it.
The video shows the photos from the top, and you can clearly see the protest below and no one payed attention to the van at all. It was untouched at least by the EDL.

As I said, I have met them. And I am really pleased with what I have seen and heard so far.

I think that it's no good to keep guessing. Just go to their meetings, but you need to be invited by an EDL member. The next is on Friday 19th Nov and I am going.
Last time there were 60 people, but now they are expecting abt 100.

New Israel Fund Supports Boycotters:

http://www.nif.org/about/selected-nif-policies.html#14

"NIF supports an end to the occupation of Palestinian territories as a central tenet of the strategic framework in which we operate. The tactics known as 'boycott, divestment and sanctions' (BDS) are designed to pressure Israel to end the occupation, but NIF believes these tactics to be unproductive, inflammatory and ineffective because of the difficulties in defining an approach that is not overly broad, does not delegitimize Israel and will achieve the long-term goal.

Although we will continue to communicate publicly and privately to our allies and grantees that NIF does not support BDS as a strategy or tactic, we will not reduce or eliminate our funding for grantees that differ with us on a tactical matter. NIF will not fund BDS activities nor support organizations for which BDS is a substantial element of their activities, but will support organizations that conform to our grant requirements if their support for BDS is incidental or subsidiary to their significant programs."

sorry I mispelled "payed". I meant paid.

Ufara, was the "scholar from Cambridge" Nick Griffin, per chance. He is, after all the EDL's führer.

So Jonathan, are you going to resign from the ZF now that it is working with the New Israel Fund in the fight against institutionalised racism in Israel? It would be the right and proper thing to do.

Jonathan,

I am shocked with the level of corruption amongst the Jewish community. I never thought it was this dirty.
I will not help a single Jewish organization from now on until they can actually prove they have nothing to do with Islamist and those who want us all dead.

Anyone who supports organizations like code pink, uaf, etc and keep insisting on "cooperating" with the Muslim community, are the real traitors, and that will include CST, Board of Deputies, etc, since I saw their statement saying they "work together with the Muslim community", which is the same community that attacks us, vilifies Israel and carries out physical attacks on Jewish students too.

I suggest a boycott of funds towards these organizations until they actually provide a public statement that they will stop working with the Muslim communities and start working with Jews, for Jews.

I am so angry!

Telegramsam:

Actually no. His name is Ahmad Gunny

http://www.mfo.ac.uk/en/resources/online/photos/gunny

This is the man.

Check him out. He wrote a few books but was trying to plug his latest one, called "The prophet Muhammad".
But the EDL asked him questions which he could not reply, and he was truly humiliated. Their questions were about History, Archaeology and also Literature.
None of which Mr. Ahmad Gunny could address.

They said that the place teemed with anti-Semites too.

I think Telegramsam has a crush on Jonathan. (S)he can't stop going on about him.

Ufara: How will we ever achieve peace in Britain, let alone the Middle East, without cooperation between different communities?

Cooperation leads to reconciliation - isn't that the future we are all striving for?

I smell a lying vexatious pisher

http://www.nif.org/about/selected-nif-policies.html#14

NIF supports boycotts:

"What is NIF's position on boycott, divestment and sanctions?

NIF supports an end to the occupation of Palestinian territories as a central tenet of the strategic framework in which we operate. The tactics known as 'boycott, divestment and sanctions' (BDS) are designed to pressure Israel to end the occupation, but NIF believes these tactics to be unproductive, inflammatory and ineffective because of the difficulties in defining an approach that is not overly broad, does not delegitimize Israel and will achieve the long-term goal.

Although we will continue to communicate publicly and privately to our allies and grantees that NIF does not support BDS as a strategy or tactic, we will not reduce or eliminate our funding for grantees that differ with us on a tactical matter. NIF will not fund BDS activities nor support organizations for which BDS is a substantial element of their activities, but will support organizations that conform to our grant requirements if their support for BDS is incidental or subsidiary to their significant programs."

The ZF has no institutional position on NIF.

Personally I think it is a disgrace.

Pay your £60 membership fee, pisher, and you can vote for my resignation til the cows come home. But you will have to use your real name.

But you're just pish and wind aren't you ..

Too many people think we're still fighting Oswald Mosley and the BUF. Fascism's still a threat, but the clothes the antisemitic fascists wear these days are certainly not blackshirts.
I'm very glad that there are people like Jon and Ufara with the guts to tell things as they are, despite the inevitable smears.

But the ZF does has a position. It's position is that it is co-operating with the NIF on alleviating the plight of ethnic minorities in Israel suffering institutionalised racist discrimination. And if that's a disgrace, Jonathan, you must do the right and proper thing and resign. After all, Harvey is taking it in the correct direction now.
BTW, I'm a ZF member through Pro-Zion, an affiliate.

Yes, Yvetta. Bugger principles and forget the six million, let's stand with the BNP/EDL. They'll be giving David Irving a "Friend of Zion" award next. Jeez

Welcome to Bigots Forum

Carry on Jonathan, you are only digging your own grave. I bet those ZF leadership meetings are a hoot now.

Telegramsam: There is an advocate for the EDL on the message boards, the group which you have spent many hours deriding as "racist scum". Yet you still persist to attack Jonathan and the ZF.

Why?

Matt, they are racist scum. And anyone from the Jewish community who is happy to stand with them is a useful idiot. I am not attacking the ZF. Quite the opposite. Now that it has a new chairman, Harvey Rose, who has made it clear that he will make common cause with other like-minded organisations against the BNP/EDL, the ZF has returned to its proper path as an inclusivist organisation. Jonathan, who is obviously upset that the ZF is going down this new route, should do the right and proper thing and resign.

Mattpryor, we can cooperate between communities when these communities also want to cooperate with us.
It cannot be a one-sided thing.

The way I see it, we are trying to force ourselves to cooperate with those who do not care at all about us. Not only that, they want us dead. Can there be any cooperation with people like that? I think not.

"Cooperation leads to reconciliation - isn't that the future we are all striving for?"

No. Cooperation leads to mutual respect and mutual work. Reconciliation is only when someone has a fight with another, and needs to reconcile. But I must point out that the Muslim community does NOT wish to reconcile with us. So, why make the effort to dhimmify ourselves even more? I say no more!

Telegramsam, my G-d! How nasty you are!

Why are you attacking Jonathan in this manner?
If this is the same Jonathan Hoffman I have seen at several protests, you should be ashamed of yourself. This Jonathan guy is the best thing the ZF could possibly have and yet they have some idiots who go and vote for some unknown guy called Harvey Rose who brings us all into disrepute by making deals with Muslims.

Yes, the ZF might be cooperating with the NIF, but I doubt Jonathan would be. And I don't think he should resign at all. I think he should campaign to get Harvey Rose out and work only with real Zionists who have no connection with the Muslim community.
I think they should build a relationship with the ex-Muslims.

You are wrong. Harvey is not taking the ZF in the right direction. And I am beginning to see that you are also one of those dhimmies. You like appeasing those who want you dead? Why? What's in it for you?

The EDL are not BNP. I see you like to write EDL/BNP too much, but all the evidence proves against you.

So, shall I also write Sam/Kapo everytime I write about you? Let's see how you feel.

The EDL are not racist scum. You seem to be however. In fact it seems you are not only racist/fascist scum, because you do everything against your fellow Jews, you are also a dhimmified kapo. You should move to Saudi Arabia and preach your ideas there. I give you one day of life before they behead you.

I disagree with you totally. Anyone from the Jewish community who stands with the EDL are brave and proper Zionist. They are also those who will save us from this Islamist/fascist chaos.

And by the way the EDL is growing, I give no more than 5 months for the ZF to be empty of support if it continues to insist in betraying us and our moral principles.

Tsam, thanks very much for opening this blog and letting us all debate this. If you support "Not In My Name -- Jews Against the EDL" - that's a very good reason to oppose it.

Harvey Rose has made a major mistake aligning the ZF with them. I will be writing to him and hope other ZF supporters do the same. This was a dreadful PR move, and will look even worse if they try to withdraw now.

I was blocked for the Chairmanship by ProZion

This comment by Jonathan Hoffman has been moderated

This "ashera" thing sounds more hysterical with every post. Not exactly what we need here. Anyway, it says its going.

Interesting choice of name, since 'ashera' is a name in Hebrew associated with idol-worship.

This comment by Avraham Reiss has been moderated

That's what happens, Jonathan, when you spread hatred and stand with the BNP/EDL.

And Jonathan the repetitive, autistic-like abuse did you no favours either.

ProZion it seems is actually anti-Zion.

Avraham, my name is Ufara Bat-Asherah.
Ufara means leader
Bat-Asherah = Daughter of Asherah

Asherah was a Hebrew/Canaanite goddess, and I am very proud to have this name. You may consider it idol worship but that just proves yet again your ignorance.
There is a difference between worshiping idols and / o using them as manifestations of the divine.
But I won't bother getting into it as this subject is far complex for you to grasp.

I guess that you are "attacking" me now because I disagreed with you, and exposed your ignorance on the "homosexuality" issue.

This comment by Jonathan Hoffman has been moderated

Telegramsam

If Jonathan stood with the EDL, he would be president of the ZF.
In fact I think I will bring this issue up at the next EDL meeting.
Maybe the leader of the division would agree if we got some people together to protest at the ZF.

UBA "I am shocked with the level of corruption amongst the Jewish community"

It isn't corrupt. The problem is the institutional weak liberal mentality and lukewarm support of Israel in some parts of the leadership. This is not helped by the dominance among financing sources of New Israel Fund and Pears.

Sam/kapo

You seem to fancy Jonathan.
Actually you seem to be really obsessed with him.
Has he rejected your advances? Have you been spurned?
Can you please stop the attacks on him now?
I want to see you do what he does.

I thought Jonathan and stephenb had a thing.